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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

My kids are destroyers and I can't cope anymore

100 replies

fedupwiththeguy · 31/08/2021 21:44

My kids break and destroy everything. That's it. I can't deal with the mess and destruction of everyday. There is a huge hole in the bathroom where the toilet paper holder. They torn it off and then kept digging with their finger every time they go potty. They take my iPad and phone when I am sleeping, and they have broken two chargers in a week. They take and leave their bed cushion to the backyard and leave them there in the rain. They use about 4 outfits a day, and I need to wash their running shoes daily. They shot my kitchen lamp and broke the glass. My DD spills drinks in the sofa more than once a week (no, they are not allowed to eat or drink outside of the kitchen/dining). My DS smelled so bad... cleaned it top to bottom and the smell didn't go. Found a melted ice cream under the mattress. They dug a hole in the backyard about half a meter deep and surrounded it with bricks that they found under the deck. The door knobs, they have broken the front door and the backyard door knobs in the last year. Currently, we are sleeping with the backyard unlocked as I can't afford a new one. I am a single mom with a litigious ex that has led me into huge debt to pay for lawyers. I ended up self-representing at a month long trial because I could not pay for a lawyer. My ex on the other hand is wealthy and pushed for private school, at the same time that refuses to pay for our DS therapy. DS is ADHD and needs weekly therapy. It is court ordered and 30km away from me. I don't drive, but I need to take DS every week, including during ex's time, because ex ... well, power trips. I work full time, a good job, but can't handle everything. Even when I make 6 figures, I could not afford summer camp for the kids. Ex has not paid child support in over two years. I do 15 loads of laundry a week and can't catch up, still 5 hampers full of clothes. Kids make a huge mess every bath, the water has gone through the floor and to leak into the main floor ceiling. They drop things on the floor all the time (like coming into the house and dropping my jacket that is hanging in the entryway) and walk over them with muddy shoes.
I just can't go on anymore. They also don't let me sleep. I need to beg them to shut up at night, sometimes going until midnight. I need to be up at 6am, and I used to do the housekeeping when they went to bed, but I can't anymore. I came to the kitchen for water last night to find the backyard door completely open. I got the scare of my life, and thanks god we didn't get racoons inside. It happens that my DD had come dowsntairs to eat ice cream.

I am in a loop of cleaning over and over the same things that won't last a day. And I need to keep a full time job. My GP says that I don't need medication help, that I can do with meditation. She also refused to send my to the psychiatrist or psychologist. I am beyond what I can tolerate in terms of stress.

OP posts:
Akrotiri1 · 31/08/2021 22:40

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ as quotes a deleted post.

GreenWillow · 31/08/2021 22:43

Op has already outlined her parenting strategy, and it is undeniably the cause of her problems.

Personally, I think constructive advice is a lot more supportive and helpful than the doling out of non-existent medals.

fedupwiththeguy · 31/08/2021 22:43

I have read so many parenting books and done workshops, but each teaches different, and sometimes opposed things. It is obvious that discipline may need an overhaul here.

@Hellocatshome that's true, but I can't afford summer camp. School is starting in two weeks though, and praying that it doesn't go online again.

OP posts:
lking679 · 31/08/2021 22:46

It sounds crap. Do you at least make the most of things and try to relax when they’re with ex husband?

youvegottenminuteslynn · 31/08/2021 22:47

@GreenWillow

Op has already outlined her parenting strategy, and it is undeniably the cause of her problems.

Personally, I think constructive advice is a lot more supportive and helpful than the doling out of non-existent medals.

Constructive advice, yes.

Snarky, non specific comment that will make a parent feel like shit when they're already on their knees... probably not.

FAQs · 31/08/2021 22:48

It sounds like you need a new school therapist! What a load of rubbish and it’s not working! Can one of the nannies assist at yours?

NebbiaZanzare · 31/08/2021 22:49

I used to watch Supernanny but school psychologist told me that she uses a rather punitive approach that did not align with what they want children to learn. So no naughty corner, etc.

I have ADHD, diagnosed, unmedicated (no approved meds for adults with the disorder where I live, far too old to have been diagnosed in childhood and treated).

I was brought up in a manner that makes SuperNanny look overly relaxed, not least when I was at boarding school. I HATED it. I hated the rules, the consequences, the constant fucking nitpicking, the sheer soul crushing weight of expectations at every turn, the lot. But…. it gave me the tools that stopped me tipping right over the edge when all the “do this, like that, by this time, or else” external framework was gone when I became an adult.

I would hate to have to re-live having ADHD as a child in today’s climate. I certainly wouldn’t have the (boringingly normal mostly) life I have today. Absolute best case scenario, I’d still be in a squat.

The world does not give you positive reinforcement and refrain from comment about the things you screw up. The world kicks you in the face the minute you fuck up and tends not to praise for the shit you’re supposed to do. And the people seductively whispering “it’s not your fault, poor you” are those who can smell the “vulnerable” on their intended victims from 3 miles away.

It’s just a personal opinion, I’m not a professional. But, from perspective of somebody who has the condition (and a few co-morbid disorders to keep the ADHD company), rules of steel, relentless consistency, high expectations and consequences made my childhood Not Fun, but likely saved my life as I stumbled my way through young adulthood.

What seems like a kinder way isn’t necessarily kinder when viewed against the outcomes it can produce.

fedupwiththeguy · 31/08/2021 22:49

@GreenWillow

it was the school therapist. I am in Canada. They have changed things, from time-outs to time-ins. And teaching rather than punishing

So one individual gives you advice that leads you into the intolerable situation that you describe above, and you just unquestioningly follow it? Ignoring what your eyes are telling you?

Perhaps this wasn’t the most sensible course of action available to you?

I have used many different sources and strategies. The behaviour was there for years and persisted, so if a professional suggests something different, I will try it.

The biggest changes in the span of the last 5 years, is that DS has improved his self-control when he gets angry. DD has however started to listen to her brother more than me, maybe in the last 6 months, when she used to be very obedient and such a delight.

OP posts:
fedupwiththeguy · 31/08/2021 22:54

@NebbiaZanzare thank you so much, this is a really helpful insight. We have an appointment with a parenting specialist next week, who would coach both parent to keep routines and consistency between the two homes. I think that this is another problem. Children lived primarily with me until school age, and the more time they spent with their father, the more unruly they have become here. At the beginning, daddy's house, daddy's rules, mommy's house, mommy's rules, worked, but it is not working anymore. Last week, when I told my son that he was grounded, he responded "only for one day, because I am going to my dad tomorrow and I won't be grounded there". That was a slap in the face. Unfortunately, my ex doesn't agree with me on many things, like screen time, so I believe that has some part to blame in the behaviour as well.

OP posts:
FloGiven · 31/08/2021 23:02

I’m not a parent so no advice but wanted to offer my virtual support.

This sounds so bloody hard and you could really do with a break. I hope your ex will take them for a chunk of time so you can recharge x

NebbiaZanzare · 31/08/2021 23:05

[quote fedupwiththeguy]@NebbiaZanzare thank you so much, this is a really helpful insight. We have an appointment with a parenting specialist next week, who would coach both parent to keep routines and consistency between the two homes. I think that this is another problem. Children lived primarily with me until school age, and the more time they spent with their father, the more unruly they have become here. At the beginning, daddy's house, daddy's rules, mommy's house, mommy's rules, worked, but it is not working anymore. Last week, when I told my son that he was grounded, he responded "only for one day, because I am going to my dad tomorrow and I won't be grounded there". That was a slap in the face. Unfortunately, my ex doesn't agree with me on many things, like screen time, so I believe that has some part to blame in the behaviour as well.[/quote]
I think another thing to maybe factor in is grief. Children can mourn and flail around in their pain when divorce and/or significant tension between their parents is a factor. I didn’t realise until my father died that what I had experienced, that lead to my first (and very spectacular) major period of Not Being Able To Cope And Freaking Out Dangerously, was grief. I had a name for it only when he was gone, but it was the same washing machine spin cycle of overwhelmingly intense and scary feelings I’d had when my parents divorces and subsequently started diagnosing each other with various personality disorders and “being in the wrong, as usual-it’s”.

I feel for you. I would not want to parent younger me. Not even with a padded lockable place to hurl me into when I need a break. And I’m not advocating for a return to the 70s, just maybe not the swing to the other extreme. I hope you find a professional who can help all of you find a way that works, and gives the whole family a lot more peace.

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 31/08/2021 23:05

A month long trial for child arrangements sounds like a lot.

fedupwiththeguy · 31/08/2021 23:12

@ChardonnaysPetDragon Ex has the money. He wanted to make sure I could not afford to hire a lawyer. 18 days. 15 witnesses (plus the two of us). Decision-making and parenting time. He had the burden to proof why we should not continue our 50/50. I won the trial, but he has appealed, so that is not over either.

OP posts:
TheChip · 31/08/2021 23:18

I had unruly kids. It was an absolute nightmare when they were younger. I did manage to get support, but even they were at a loss.

Some advice that was helpful though was to ignore the minor bad behaviour. So unless it was behaviour that was causing damage or harm, to just try and ignore. Make more comments when you see positive, so that by the end of the day they have received more responses/reactions to positive behaviour rather than the negative.

The other things was to hang chimes above the doors, especially the bedroom ones. So if they leave their room, or enter yours while you sleep you will wake up. Mine used to sneak into my room and switch my alarm clock off.

What I started doing was not issuing consequences as such in the form of punishments, but more so "you can choose to break your brothers toy, but that would mean you have to give him one of yours. Or you can choose to play with yours and not lose it"
It didn't always work, but they slowly learned that the right choices felt better.

Now as they're older it's a case of "you can choose to come home past the time we have set, and lose out on time tomorrow, or you can come home at the correct time and have another fun packed day tomorrow. The choice is yours"

Spanglemum · 31/08/2021 23:21

It sounds to me as if your children need medication to help with the ADHD and with sleeping.

SeaShoreGalore · 31/08/2021 23:26

I’d let them spend more time at his if he has two nannies.

PwySyddYma · 31/08/2021 23:27

People will disagree with me here, but my DS has ADHD but it's mild so I don't think his behaviour was related to his ADHD he just wanted to push boundaries. He began the breaking my house up behaviour because he thought it was fun to wind me up and push my buttons.

Result....

I ran my house like a miserable bland prison for 2 weeks till he learnt I will not tolerate this behaviour and if he can not respect our family belongings then I will remove them

That's right I removed every toy, every electronic device including the TV and locked them in the attic.

All that was left in the house was furniture and my mobile phone.

The clothes. I locked all his clothes in my wardrobe. He would be given 1 clean full par of clothes in the morning, and a clean pair of PJ's at night. Obviously clean would come out for accidents, but deliberately go in the garden and smear mud in them, tough. Your problem not mine.

Food was nutritional meals but no deserts, sweets or biscuits. Fruit was always available to snack on.

As his behaviour improved I would give a luxury, so first day of good behaviour I brought down the Lego, so on so on till at about the 2 week mark the TV was the last item to be returned to its place.

I won't lie was bloody miserable for me, but it taught him a lesson. Respect our home and it can have nice things willfully and deliberately break things I work hard for and I'll take everything away. Don't push me, and don't push boundaries.

I'm a lone parent 100% custody with no breaks and no maintenance. I work a full time job, I genuinely didn't and don't have time for destructive behaviour, and I definitely can not afford to keep replacing things.

He has never purposefully broken an item in my house again. A year on since the dreaded 2 weeks. He's 7 now and delightful in our home.

Sometimes you just have to get tough. 🤷🏻‍♀️

It was 2 weeks hard graft though...

douliket · 01/09/2021 00:13

@fedupwiththeguy
Op firstly put down the parenting books.
Secondly,consistent,consistent,consistent
Consequences.
Be firm,Do not overthink the whole parenting technique you should adopt.
A basic chart written up and hanging up in view of everyone to see, not more than three rules to follow and on one side you have 3 bad behaviours( such as. If anything is left outside at night then the consequence is such and such)
If you have to ask them something/ more than twice to get them then you let them know that on second ask that was the last ask( give them chance to redeem
Do not be afraid to toughen up on your kids, and remember you are teaching them valuable lessons on for later in life.
You do not need to tip toe around your kids and let them be so careless to your property and so careless with their own possessions
They will soon know after about a week that their crap behaviour will lead to whichever punishment is written on your plan.
Op very challenging, but you are doing amazing....just by being able to go out in public with well behaved kids or have peace less destruction in your house....should be all you need to keep yourself consistent.

I am sorry people on this thread have been so horrible to you. It just goes to show how deeply unhappy they must be in thier own lives to make sure they kick someone when their down.

Caramellatteplease · 01/09/2021 00:20

Empty the house, literally. If they break it, dont replace it. Lock your stuff away if needs. Bedrooms need to be bearest minimum in terms of stuff, furniture and wall hangings. You need a low sensory low stimulation environment, no pictures. One or two favourite toys and that's it.

In the long run you probably need a proper "sensory room" (dark black out curtains, quiet with slowly moving lights different textures). Some people have success with a black out tent as a cheap alternative, yours I think are a way off a tent being sensible. Some people have a shed, in the uk there are charities that can fund, not sure about canada

You want anything that encourages healthy sensory physical input, trampolines, spinning (eg budget ideal and hanging (eg monkey bars in the garden or the pull up bars that hang from doorways in the house). You will probably find they pick one or two of these inputs more than others, you might already have noticed they bounce or spin a lot.

You need to be (up early) walking or scooting for a good hour a day in the morning and the same again in the afternoon. Ideally probably also lunchtime for the time being until they settle down a bit. If they can rollarskate so much the better, you want any activity that is harder for them than you. Play park morning and afternoon if possible. You will be exhausted initially but it will get easier. Weekends need to be long walks, long bike rides and robust play parks. In the uk zoo memberships can be good if the zoo is particularly expansive. Swimming especially at a competative style club can also be good. Some kind of telly based exercise like the kids section of les mills on demand can also be good especially when you're at home and your attention needs to be elsewhere.

No time outs. Leaving them alone for a time out is not a good plan. But no long talks either, they are too wound up to listen and cant listen to you properly until they've calmed down a bit. No grounding, they need to be out and doing as much physically as possible.

Cultivate I'm not interested in what dad does here we do this. Stick to it like a broken record. If you are telling off use less words not more, never explain why unless they ask later when calmer. Even then often no is a complete sentence.

No TVs or computers two hours before bedtime, audiobooks ok reading ok. No ticktock (very very poor for concentration and adhd). You tube on ban for now, vet you tube channels before they are reintroduced. Nothing with whizzy graphics and speedy editing cuts No real time computer games you cant pause (eg fortnight). that needs to be a long term hard rule, as they require too much emotional investment. run visual timers like a kitchen timer or a specific hour glass for everything including screen time the time the walk will take etc. In your case I would only allow tablets when you are working if they have walked.

Sleep sounds/music at bedtime and any time they are meant to be asleep. Try different types, some work for some people and not at all for others.

Sit down once a week to board games. Start with games that are quick to learn, chance based and short in length so they require low emotional investment and when they lose they've got another chance. Something like pass the pigs, jenga (if coordination is not an issue) or sushi go. Slowly introduce longer games. Nothing that hypes your specific kids up.

You might find running a marble jar works. Marble in for anything they do good. They use that to earn whatever they want (a toy back, half hour on the computer). Screen time us good because it doesn't cost you anything) Actively look for good things they do to give you an excuse to add marbles. At the end of the day Empty the marbles at the end of the day for the reward eg screen time tomorrow. When they get the idea that marbles are good start taking out marbles for bad behaviour. At the start limit it to really bad behaviour but by the end of the a week or so as the behaviour improves you slowly raise your expectations, it has to be better behaviour to earn the marbles and not as bad to loose them. Eventually introduce bigger rewards they have to save their marbles for. It allows for hands off discipline.

Yy to the diet and e numbers and sugar. No hidden sugars likefruit sweetcorn and fruit juices. Only added sugar squash, water or milk to drink.

You will probably find eventually they dont need everything and it will take some time for it all to kick in. Give yourself a deadline of a month. At the end of the month sit yourself down, recognise any progress you have made (and it may be slow but you will have) and assess what has and hasnt worked. Expect regression at any points of stress, growth change etc. Back to basics start again.

It can get better

Marcipex · 01/09/2021 00:23

Well, about sanctions.
A chat is not an adequate sanction for deliberately destroying things.
I agree however that Supernanny style is too punitive.
There is a middle ground though, as some posters have described. You are not giving a sanction just for the sake of it, but to help them learn.
If they ruin their pillows in the garden, don’t replace them. They can perfectly well do without. Put ruined items in the bin ( trash), because they don’t want them, do they, or they wouldn’t have spoiled them.

However, some behaviour seems malicious, not just thoughtless. Pulling a coat down and trampling on it is spiteful behaviour.
I’d be much harder on that. I’d use a sanction for that, something impactful that they will really remember, because you want to make a point. But try to keep it relevant. For example, you can’t have the weekend treat/outing/baking session, because you are too busy doing the extra laundry.

Do as much self-care as you possibly can. Partly because of course you deserve it, but also to raise your self-esteem.
When you value yourself sufficiently, it will be reflected back to you, in respect from others.
I suspect their father is teaching them to not respect you. Don’t let him succeed.

EarthSight · 01/09/2021 00:28

@choli

Consequences for bad behaviour... usually just a chat I think I can see the root of the problem...
This.

Children can behave in all sorts of ways without ADHD. They also have different personalities. A chat might work with some kids, where you explain the issue with them and come to some sort of agreement......but other kids will take you for an absolute ride. They will respect you less and take full advantage of the fact that there is no real punishment ever, for anything.

In life, there are consequences. In adulthood, they will be unable to to destroy other people's property without getting fined or landing in jail. What then?? In their jobs, they will need to regulate their behaviour otherwise they will not be able to enter or remain in the workforce. An ADHD diagnosis will only get them so far because if they're hindering the business more than helping it, they will be fired.

I'm sorry that you were given bad advice by the school psychologist, who clearly doesn't have to go through what you're going through.

Jesus Christ.....if this is common in Canadian schools, many of your children are going to grow up into nightmarish, entitled adults who will expect a reward for behaving like normal, decent human beings and who'll pout when they don't get one. The ones who are innately agreeable will be fine.....but the rest? No thank you. Talk about making a rod for one's own back.

EarthSight · 01/09/2021 00:38

Also, you mention parenting books, workshops and psychologists. You're desperate to improve this situation.

Take yourself out of the situation for a moment. If you didn't have any kids, what would you say to a woman in your position? I'm curious to know what you think deep down about discipline? How do you actually want to parent your children? Would you say you are an assertive person, generally? How well do you deal with confrontation, generally?

Blueleah · 01/09/2021 00:41

This is a lack of discipline I’m afraid. My DC wouldn’t dare do any of those things.

Caramellatteplease · 01/09/2021 00:53

Also especially with the ex undermining your authority, small subtle dominance stuff helps. Sit down to eat all meals at the table, but make sure you are at the traditional head of the table in you have a rectangular table. They should sit on the immediate either side of you on a circular or square one. Children in the back of the car, always. If you have a chair in the living room expect them to move to sit on it. Have stuff that is yours that is not to be used by "small children" like your coffee cup. Also stuff that you let the kids use if they sit sensibly at the table "this is my very precious cup (make sure it's not too precious) and as you have be very good today you can have special.... in it ". This will need much supervision at first! Use "my" not the so my house my fridge my car not the house the fridge the car.

Have confidence in yourself. Apologise if you decide you have got something wrong, but stick to your guns when you know you are right. Aknowledge when something goes wrong, often with a "never mind we'll do better tomorrow" or "well that went very wrong lets try this way.

Kids need to trust their parents and that's hard when one behaves badly and is inherently un trust worthy. It makes the world a very scary place, if you cant trust you're parent who can you trust? You need to be the most trustworthy solid parent going, which is hard when you are only human.

Lovinglifeand · 01/09/2021 01:00

I can't believe a 6 or 8 year old thinks it is ok to get up at night and help themselves to ice cream. It seems to me that there are a whole lot of clear boundaries needed here. Don't get me wrong, I think setting boundaries as a single parent is one of the hardest things to do, especially if ADHD is in play, so you have my utmost support and sympathy but it has to be done.

Write some house rules together as a family. Get everyone to have a say and then to sign it. Stick to them. Start off small, like 1) No getting out of bed once tucked in. 2) No helping themselves to food after meals. 3) Food and drink only at the dining table. Ask them if there is a rule that they want e.g. Bedtime story every night or to go to the park after school each day.

If they do not follow the rules, all get around the table again and calmly ask them what went wrong. Why are they not sticking to the rules, explain the rules need to be there for you to be the best mum you can and to help them be the best people that they can be. Show them nothing but respect at all times and they will show that back to you ...eventually. Shout at them and you will be teaching them to shout rather than calmly reason.

Most important, spend as much time with them as you can. Eat meals together and talk about your days. Cuddle them and tell them you love them several times a day. Praise every single good thing that they do and ignore most of the bad. If they follow the rules then tell that they are wonderful, how proud you are of them but do it quickly before they break them again. Which they will. The 5 minutes you tuck them in after their story is one of the most important 5 minutes of the day. Ask them how they are, make them feel like they are being heard and that you really care (which of course you do). Just keep at it.. and things will change.

Three of my children have ADHD and I found that I had to make sure they were busy at all times. They were not able to occupy themselves till teenagers. Daily exercise, and a healthy diet was essential and or they would go stir crazy. As many after school activities as they want to do.

I'm sorry that you are having such a hard time. Being a single parent is difficult enough without kids playing up but it can get better, I promise.

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