My kids are destroyers and I can't cope anymore

[fedupwiththeguy]

My kids break and destroy everything. That's it. I can't deal with the mess and destruction of everyday. There is a huge hole in the bathroom where the toilet paper holder. They torn it off and then kept digging with their finger every time they go potty. They take my iPad and phone when I am sleeping, and they have broken two chargers in a week. They take and leave their bed cushion to the backyard and leave them there in the rain. They use about 4 outfits a day, and I need to wash their running shoes daily. They shot my kitchen lamp and broke the glass. My DD spills drinks in the sofa more than once a week (no, they are not allowed to eat or drink outside of the kitchen/dining). My DS smelled so bad... cleaned it top to bottom and the smell didn't go. Found a melted ice cream under the mattress. They dug a hole in the backyard about half a meter deep and surrounded it with bricks that they found under the deck. The door knobs, they have broken the front door and the backyard door knobs in the last year. Currently, we are sleeping with the backyard unlocked as I can't afford a new one. I am a single mom with a litigious ex that has led me into huge debt to pay for lawyers. I ended up self-representing at a month long trial because I could not pay for a lawyer. My ex on the other hand is wealthy and pushed for private school, at the same time that refuses to pay for our DS therapy. DS is ADHD and needs weekly therapy. It is court ordered and 30km away from me. I don't drive, but I need to take DS every week, including during ex's time, because ex ... well, power trips. I work full time, a good job, but can't handle everything. Even when I make 6 figures, I could not afford summer camp for the kids. Ex has not paid child support in over two years. I do 15 loads of laundry a week and can't catch up, still 5 hampers full of clothes. Kids make a huge mess every bath, the water has gone through the floor and to leak into the main floor ceiling. They drop things on the floor all the time (like coming into the house and dropping my jacket that is hanging in the entryway) and walk over them with muddy shoes.
I just can't go on anymore. They also don't let me sleep. I need to beg them to shut up at night, sometimes going until midnight. I need to be up at 6am, and I used to do the housekeeping when they went to bed, but I can't anymore. I came to the kitchen for water last night to find the backyard door completely open. I got the scare of my life, and thanks god we didn't get racoons inside. It happens that my DD had come dowsntairs to eat ice cream.

I am in a loop of cleaning over and over the same things that won't last a day. And I need to keep a full time job. My GP says that I don't need medication help, that I can do with meditation. She also refused to send my to the psychiatrist or psychologist. I am beyond what I can tolerate in terms of stress.

No advice beyond what has been offered here but really empathising with you.

You’ve had a lot of good advice here but I just wanted to say you’re doing an amazing job and trying your best so don’t be so hard on yourself

Oh bless you, I sympathise. I only had one child and in theory I didn't allow food and drink away from the kitchen or dining room but remember finding a bowl of soup with a piece of bread stuck in it - quite old and mouldy, behind a book in his room. On another occasion a half eaten apple was on a plate just under his bed. I said to him, "That apple was just sitting there on the floor!"; he was about four, looked at me and said, "Do apples sit?" and found it most amusing.

He was well behaved in other ways, just messy.

Iit gets better up to a point and we adapt.

I 'get' the remark about being an ineffectual parent, I think I probably was in some respects but there was never anything nasty or bad tempered between us. I'm also not the tidiest person, his dad was better.

I will say all three of us slept very well once the baby days were past.

He has his own house now to make a mess in. When I go there he clears a space for me.

Good luck. I'm being light hearted but I can see how difficult it is for you managing on your own and you have my sympathy. Life isn't fair sometimes when one parent is left with most of the responsibility and a budget.

What is the matter with their dad that he hasn't paid any child support for two years? That is just plain wrong.

You do need your sleep, your eldest is now of an age to be able to understand that. They must learn to be more considerate which is all part of growing up and it will come.

Working from home would not be a good idea for you unless you could employ someone to mind the children when not at school; I doubt you can afford that. It's also good to go out to work and mix with other adults, I thrived on that.

I don't really understand the sympathy posts - you have lost control but then again it doesn't sound like you had any in the first place? A CHAT is not a form of discipline 🤷‍♀️ no wonder they have zero respect for you and their home

I wanted to send sympathy. My boys were utter monsters when they were little. They are lovely now, but I think they were just so smart and had so much energy and they also used to destroy everything. It's very easy for people to say just do this and that and the problem will be solved, but I also tried absolutely everything and honesty nothing really worked.

My advice is to lower your expectations. Don't buy nice things as they just get ruined. Channel their energy into stuff. For example, make them a mini construction site or something in the garden where they can build things and explore. I guess what I am saying, is just to roll with it a bit. It does get easier as they get older. I bet your boys are super-smart too. It's always the really smart kids who are taking stuff apart and taking play to the next level.

It sounds like you are doing a really great job under some really hard circumstances, so don't beat yourself up.

Are there any support groups in your area, given that your son has ADHD? I grew up as a sibling of a brother with special needs and there was a fabulous local group that provided weekly youth groups and day trips for those with additional needs and also support groups for parents, siblings and grandparents. If there is anything local to you it might help with support and also to have a bit of free time too.

Oh FGS, read the thread..

[quote fedupwiththeguy]@ChardonnaysPetDragon Ex has the money. He wanted to make sure I could not afford to hire a lawyer. 18 days. 15 witnesses (plus the two of us). Decision-making and parenting time. He had the burden to proof why we should not continue our 50/50. I won the trial, but he has appealed, so that is not over either.[/quote]
Is there a way for him to pay or cover your legal fees? Can you seek help from an advice center?

Is Moms Canada a helpful site for you? Here are some resources from oneparent.org

I agree with trying to find out about local support. It’s a shame that your ex is undermining you because it’s not going to help their behaviour if the rules are not consistent. I don’t understand what he gains from this apart from being on a weird power trip. Your son deliberately not following rules because he knows that you won’t be able to punish him, he’s being very disrespectful. Consequences do not have to be punitive but they do need to be understood that actions have consequences and what their father does isn’t your problem.

Is there a reason why he’s not paid for 2 years? Is he legally allowed to get away with this? And is there any way for mediation so you can explain what your ex is doing that is counterproductive to your children’s well-being, such as not being aware that medication was not taken on time, not taking the kids to their activities during his time etc.

Can you raise it with your son’s therapist that his father is refusing to drive him to his sessions when effectively it’s his father turn to share the custody and your worry is that trying to appeal to get sole custody isn’t helping your children. Perhaps even mention that he wasn’t aware that your son was discarding medication so he didn’t know how long your son wasn’t taking it? I’m wondering if keeping all those things logged might somehow help your case.

Do not replace any damaged items so they know that items aren’t not easily replaceable. Lock away any valuables. Or you can buy the new item but if they want an item to be replaced, they need to earn it by following rules (e.g. eating and drinking at the table) and they must work hard to show that they have learnt from their mistakes and then you will give them and then they can get new replaced item.

You can also have clear and simple rules that perhaps you can come up with your children and think of possible consequences, with some contribution from them so they’re also on board. Have a think of what rules work in their schools and why and see if you can keep that consistent. Regarding the consequences, you can ask them “what should we do if you do xyz?”

If they damage property, they need to learn that money doesn’t grow on trees. They cannot play with water guns indoors, spill juice on the couch, wreak havoc in the morning. There needs to be consequences for their actions but it doesn’t always have to be punitive. If you have all come up with agreed repercussions, stick to them. And if possible, tell your ex that the children have come up with this and they are planning to stick to it. Having a mediator there would help so it would be clear that he’s being uncooperative.

@fedupwiththeguy, is there any way you can petition the court for a guardian ad litem to be appointed to represent your children?

Your ex is using the courts to abuse you - mine did that and it ended when the GaL presented his report.

What are the grounds of your exH's appeal?

Sympathy, OP. I am in Canada and schools can be ridiculous about discipline. My DH had his knuckles rapped with a ruler way after it would have happened in U.K., but now it’s the other extreme.

My DS threw a ball at a teacher in a temper (for context, in a game that involved throwing soft balls at each other!). The teacher reacted by evacuating the gym and calling for backup as if he’d come in brandishing a gun, but then he had literally no consequences, just a sympathetic chat about how they understood that he’d got frustrated because he felt the teacher was being unfair but really throwing things isn’t very nice... so frustrating for us parents! The older teachers are so much better at being strict and fair and are usually also beloved. The younger ones have been trained in absolute rubbish, and the ones who don’t have decent parents really will struggle as adults.

Can you get childcare, when mine were little I had a nanny who did some housework for me. She was expensive but I scrimped and scraped to pay her, it was a life saver for me and worth every penny. I went without just about everything to pay her.

It sounds tough but I think they need a definite consequence for doing the bad stuff. This is the only way they will learn. Take a privilege away when they break something or dig the garden etc.

THIS is how kids learn to behave - not a gentle chat, that is forgotten minutes later.

If you’re working at home and can’t control them, you need to get someone to care for them, as if you were at a actual place of work. You can’t leave them to run riot. It’s no wonder you are stressed.

I do feel for you but kids need boundaries to feel secure.

All this permissive and chatting nonsense when a quick swat and grounded would have solved it ages ago. Yeah I know. Not PC to say that these days.

These are the little darlings that get older and bully and abuse their parents.

I like the wording of “it’s your choice” that a pp suggested.

It seems to me that you have to ignore what happens at dad's house. Dad has nannies/housekeeper - he does not deal with the consequences of his children's behaviour; his employees do.
But at your home, you deal with it.
It's much tougher to be doing it, knowing that the rules are different at dad's but you have to make your own life as easy as you can. From my perspective that means tough short term management for longer term gains.
A chat isn't enough. There's a world of difference between a punitive response and an appropriate discipline. Children need negative consequences when they do things wrong. My kids were little in the "time out" era. Times-out were utterly useless for them - counter productive in the extreme - but other things worked, for example missing out on screen time / certain snacks / activities that the sibling got to do.
Your children aren't too old for reward charts. Have one for "staying in bed during the hours X to y" and "the floor of the play room being clear at 7pm" for example. Rewards need to be stuff that they love and that you can give them that their dad can't so not financial but maybe time with you doing something fun, going to the cinema etc.
If your 8 year old is old enough to answer back with "only grounded till I go to dad's tomorrow" he's old enough to understand "no actually, the consequence for what you did is to be grounded for 48 hours so that's 24 hours now and 24 hours when you get back from dad's" (if that would have been your time decision) or "yes you're right, that won't work, what do you suggest we should do to make this fairer?" - I think kids are often quite good at suggesting appropriate punishments for themselves.
You're not going to win against their dad who sounds like a prize dick so you need to have "your father might do that but this is how we do things in this house" on a repeat track and just concentrate on making your house safe and comfortable for the 3 of you.

Also, a friend of mine has a child with ADHD who is now 20. She is a very permissive parent - this is how she was patented and it worked well for her but she was a very different personality. His behaviour steadily deteriorated over the years and everyone else recognised that he was just crying out for boundaries. It was maybe subconscious but it was as though he was literally thinking "well if they don't care enough to ground me for coming in drink at midnight at the age of 14 then they don't care much. I wonder if they'll care if I start sending intimate videos to school mates...". Everything was dealt with by "chats" and no punishments. He's much better now since he reached adulthood but I still think he's always searching for that point at which his parents will say "enough is enough" and he's never reached it.
Boundaries are good for all children but I think they are essential for children who struggle to self regulate and need help from external sources of regulation.

Oh dear..This sounds very exhausting.Sending you ((( virtual hugs))))

I think the behaviour stems from your son’s ADHD and your youngest is just learning from him and copying.
I have 2 boys, one with ADHD (plus other issues) the other one is fine. I have come to realise that you cannot have the same expectations from all your children. The youngest needs to understand that her brother behaves like this because of his condition, that you are working with professionals to get it under control but that she will have severe consequences if she misbehaves in this way.
He obviously also needs consequences, but my point is that she needs to understand their differences. Get it under control now that she’s still little. Consistency is key.

Surely you can do something about some of their bad behaviour. Charge you electronics in your bedroom, lock on the fridge door, don’t buy ice creams if they are prone to stealing them, ration their clothing Etc.

(15 loads of laundry a week is ridiculous especial considering Canada washing machines are usually large )

Just having chats for bad behaviour is silly and obviously not working at all.

Consistent and clear ‘punishments’ are perfectly ok. I used to do time out when they were little but none of my kids had ADHD so I understand that it’s different.

Is there anything that your kids really really love? Mine were loved playing computer games so that gave me loads of control. I was very very consistent and clear. It was one hour a day of gaming but I would and did remove that ‘privilidge’ for bad behaviour. I always gave one calm and clear warning then they would lose their gaming privilege for the day, if they continued with their bad behaviour they would lose it for a week.
They would also be able to earn back their gaming by good behaviour
That all sounds way more perfect than it was in real life but it wasn’t bad. My kids were well behaved but I know a lot of that is luck and other circumstances.

Not having punishments is not working for you or your kids. It’s going to impact their schooling and their friendships.

Your kids can’t change things so you are going to have to and that’s going to be hard and tiring but you are the adult. You have to do something otherwise it will get worse and worse.

As previous posters have said you need to exercise the heck out of them. Swimming is the best but whatever. Get them out the house and get them tired. At least twice a day. It’s boring and hard work for you but you need to do it.
Are you sure you can’t afford some babysitting help.

BTW, I used to live in Canada and I knew a few parents who seemed to have lost control of their kids. The thing that struck me was that the kids were never punished.

You need to set them boundaries.
6 and 8 give them ONE set of clothes a day. Do not wash their shoes daily. Thats ridiculous.
Spend the time youve spent doing 15 washloads a day!!!, parenting them.
Lock away all other clothes if needed.

Put a lot of their toys away including electronics. Leave them some but dont let them break them.

Be more present and tell them off ffs.
Its ok to shout at kids occasionally. What do yoi think their teachers will do. Fix things immediately. Get a handyperson.

Its no good for them to be allowed to be feral. Itll only get worse if you dont do this. They could get hurt. Happy children have boundaries and consequences.

@GreenWillow

In the vast majority of cases, behind every naughty child stands an ineffectual parent.

Exactly this. Well behaved children don't happen by accident. Unless the child has special needs or the mother has mental/physical health issues she's struggling with, there's no reason whatsoever to have feral children.

Children can also act up if they miss their dad/their previous intact family. Separation/divorce is traumatic for children.

It's YOUR responsibility as their parent to instill discipline and is part of loving them and bringing them up to ultimately be responsible adults. Dont listen to all this soft handed ineffectual "parenting". They're your children and they need proper boundaries and consequences for their actions otherwise it will only get worse.

OP please take responsibility. If you're struggling, reach out for help, and also share custody with their dad, assuming he's safe to leave them with

It sounds like they don't have or have never had any discipline.

It's an old book but it really helped me at the time:
www.amazon.co.uk/Explosive-Child-Understanding-Frustrated-Chronically/dp/0062270451?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

It basically (as others have advised) advises counting to ten before reacting, "Don't sweat the small stuff", and praising positive things the child does rather than over reacting to negative behaviour and "lowering your expectations." IIRC it also advises that if you decide you are going to use a punishment/reward system then stick with it - don't give up after a few weeks because it isn't working and switch to another - you probably just need to keep going longer, not like the overnight cure found on TV programmes.

I'd also become more structured - regular sleep time, eating time, clothes for schoo out the night before and out on before breakfast. You could also limit access to toys.

You sound overwhelmed and stressed with all the crap your ex is still putting you through. The kids might be reacting and picking up on the stressy vibe. So think about how you can take better care of yourself/be kind to yourself and carve out space for you. Can you find a therapist who is closer? Is there a weekend activity they could both do at the same time so you get a break even just for a coffee, a relative who could help, cut back on something to afford a cleaner. make small changes incrementally - don't try to do everything at once but think about what order things need to change in.

I had a friend who in the end couldn't cope and changed her child from a day to boarding pupil to enable her to work and spend quality time with the DC some evenings and at the weekend.

@GreenWillow

Op has already outlined her parenting strategy, and it is undeniably the cause of her problems.

Personally, I think constructive advice is a lot more supportive and helpful than the doling out of non-existent medals.

What a horrible thing to post

OP there are options between punitive time out etc and 'permissiveness'. I think what the school therapist might have meant is that taking away your son's scooter wasn't a logical consequence for lifting up your dress. If I understood correctly, non-punitive non-permissive discipline means to enforce natural/logical consequences in a strict, but not mean manner . So, after the dress incident you could have (A) taken away the scooter or toys or done time out = punishments for the sake of punishment. (B) nothing = permissive. Or (C) said 'I can't go out for scooter rides with you if you embarrass me in public, so if you don't manage right now to stop yourself from behaving like this we will have to go home'. And then do enforce this - carry/drag them home if need be- don't change your mind again. So, you enforce clear boundaries, but not because you're angry and want to punish them for the sake of it... only because some boundaries are simply necessary and that they do have to learn.