What do you call this shit behaviour?

[Iyawa]

So we agreed that we would go for dinner at 6.30pm, I made a reservation. We are on holiday. DH agreed but I sensed reluctance. I was trying to avoid over tired, hungry children by us eating any later. We had lunch at 12.

We walk passed the restaurant to see that there are plenty of tables so actually there was no need to book.

Without saying anything, DH orders DCs slush puppies at 6.20 pm in the bar area, along with a beer for himself and a drink for me. Clearly having no intention of us going for dinner at 6.30pm like he agreed to.

I say at 6.30, "right, time to go to dinner" and he predictably says "we've just ordered drinks." This wasn't agreed by me and goes against what we said was happening.

He does things like this all the time, awkward, passive aggressive stuff like this when he seemingly agrees in the first instance.

I had to be adamant and play bad cop as always, rounding everyone up against their wishes, because I know that hungry, tired children is the consequence of not going for dinner.

Is their a name for this sort of oppositional, awkward behaviour?

Equally, maybe he just thought, we’re all on holiday to relax, I fancy a beer, if the kids can’t have a slush on holiday when can they and there’s nobody in the restaurant anyway so there will still be a table when we’ve finished our drinks

Sounds like he just enjoys messing up any plan you make op.

Of course, he could have been just as much trouble for other people. But often narcissistic diets have a primary victim in their partner and they are the one that gets the brunt of the mind games and shittyness.

I dont think it's a you problem op.

Unless perhaps he just doesn't know how to say no to you. But then surely that would be part of a wider, more apparent anxiety disorder.

*sorts no diets

@Iyawa

Or maybe he avoids making any decisions at all and I have nothing to do with that behaviour?

Before he met me, he relied on his parents to make decisions for him, into his early thirties. His group of friends make all the decisions and he merely tags along. Is it really impossible that this is his issue and not mine? There's a lot of summising going on based on a small story.

I think you both just need to chill out a little. The restaurant wasn't busy. He and the kids wanted a drink. You're on holiday. Relax.

@Iyawa

Or maybe he avoids making any decisions at all and I have nothing to do with that behaviour?

Before he met me, he relied on his parents to make decisions for him, into his early thirties. His group of friends make all the decisions and he merely tags along. Is it really impossible that this is his issue and not mine? There's a lot of summising going on based on a small story.

Yet you married him knowing that. Many people would find a man who can't make decisions for himself a turn off. Someone I know is like this and he's afraid of getting into trouble so refuses to make decisions. He says 'I don't mind' a lot, so others make decisions for him. He then points the finger at the other person when that decision doesn't go well. He had a dominating mother and it's his way of having control - it's infuriating.

Him ordering drinks when you're not there to protest sounds like his way of rebelling. There must be a way to make him an equal partner rather than someone acting out when the boss is away. Can you take it in turns on holiday to decide what to do for the day? Hand over more control, see how it goes.

@Iyawa did you read up on passive aggressive behaviour? That link I gave you is short and very good.

It's not you, it's him. Don't listen to people giving you grief for marrying him "knowing" some of his not great traits, these things often escalate over time and are never as apparent a problem in the beginning as they turn out by the end.

Sadly usually the only fix for this is to LTB. There are lots of threads on here about dealing with passive aggressive partners if you do an advanced search, I found them illuminating when I was in your exact position a few years ago.

I tried to fix it if you're curious. It ultimately was a massive waste of time and caused me extra damage but I had to be sure because it's destroying to live with.

[quote WhoIsPepeSilva]@Iyawa did you read up on passive aggressive behaviour? That link I gave you is short and very good.

It's not you, it's him. Don't listen to people giving you grief for marrying him "knowing" some of his not great traits, these things often escalate over time and are never as apparent a problem in the beginning as they turn out by the end.

Sadly usually the only fix for this is to LTB. There are lots of threads on here about dealing with passive aggressive partners if you do an advanced search, I found them illuminating when I was in your exact position a few years ago.

I tried to fix it if you're curious. It ultimately was a massive waste of time and caused me extra damage but I had to be sure because it's destroying to live with.[/quote]
You mean me? You can say that instead of being passive aggressive about it. You're advising a woman to leave her husband and the father of her children over him buying drinks for the children on holiday.

@ Username I wasn't being passive aggressive, just trying to comfort the OP because people will inevitably ask questions like this and it does hurt. I wasn't being personal about it, just speaking from experience. I typed quickly because I was taking my dog out to the toilet so multitasking a bit.

I wasn't picking on you or anyone else and couldn't tell you who wrote the post that caught my eye if you gave me a fiver.

Just went back for a look out of curiosity and yes it was your post that caught my eye.

Also in my PP I did say each individual incident seems like nothing (paraphrasing myself) but can be part of a pattern - this seems like part of a pattern so I'm not suggesting leaving a husband etc over drinks but over his passive aggressive abuse over time.

Can I have some slightly goady popcorn too please? I prefer salted but this will do nicely if you don't mind sharing.

@username890 the whole popcorn munching was so unnecessary and unhelpful. You should have just gone the whole ignorant hog and posted the Michael Jackson gif from Thriller!

I agree with @WhoIsPepeSilva.

"@username890 Someone I know is like this and he's afraid of getting into trouble so refuses to make decisions. He says 'I don't mind' a lot, so others make decisions for him".

He needs to grow some balls then and stand up for himself. He needs to adult. His issue is not the Op's.

Someone i used to know and was previously married to , was just ultimately a selfish prick and every decision was based on what suited him. I challenged, i had balls. Even his life long friends, who knew him over 30 yrs , unbeknownst to me, told him he was so and that he would lose me and his DC's if he did not change his ways. I posted about it earlier in thread. My balls are so big and my popcorn so plenty, that i divorced the passive aggressive selfish prick and now back to living my best life, as are my Dc's.

"@username890 Many people would find a man who can't make decisions for himself a turn off".

Yes indeed they would, assuming the man showed that side of himself during the dating process. Sometimes it takes a while for the penny to drop and true self to be visible. The op has posted for help and some posters are blaming her. Disgraceful and ignorant understanding of what the op has said. The Op said herself "He does things like this all the time, awkward, passive aggressive stuff like this when he seemingly agrees in the first instance". Op has said this is an example, suggesting there are other examples. The Op knows what she is experiencing. She is not wrong.

"@WhoIsPepeSilva Can I have some slightly goady popcorn too please? I prefer salted but this will do nicely if you don't mind sharing".

I would not bother. It will probably be some faux chai spiced " no idea what i am talking about but i will post here anyway" Gino D'Acampo limited edition /Iceland exclusive popcorn range.

@WhoIsPepeSilva

@ Username I wasn't being passive aggressive, just trying to comfort the OP because people will inevitably ask questions like this and it does hurt. I wasn't being personal about it, just speaking from experience. I typed quickly because I was taking my dog out to the toilet so multitasking a bit.

I wasn't picking on you or anyone else and couldn't tell you who wrote the post that caught my eye if you gave me a fiver.

It's no problem, we seem to have differing views here and, that's ok. I'm of the opinion that both parties are to blame here as in most marital problems, it takes two. However, others may feel she needs to divorce, it's up to the OP.

@username890 charming. In true MN tradition.... you sound lovely.

Don't choke on your popcorn.

Username I appreciate that we can agree to disagree but I think maybe you could do with dialling it back? You are coming across quite aggressively and I really don't mean this in an argumentative or goady way but my initial thought reading your reply quoting me was "is this person ok?". Getting sweary at people is where I would tell myself I was getting too invested and look to why it angered me so much.

I certainly am not here to get into an argument with strangers over the internet, I just came to try and help the OP because I empathise with her posts due to my experience with my exH who was also passive aggressive.

Sabotage and destabilisation. He is a twat.

Oh god, I’ve had exes like this.

They’d agree to help me do something important, and then dig their heels in so it wouldn’t actually happen.

They claim to be “easygoing” and will “go with the flow” only as long as it’s their mum/friends who is telling them what to do.

Infuriating. 😡😡😡

The article resonated a lot @WhoIsPepeSilva
Thank you.

The suggestions at the end of the article sort of fill me with dread though. Reading through, it seems it will be incredibly exhausting and requires a lot of hard work on my part to change this dynamic. Being constantly hyper-vigilant to any sabotaging behaviour.

I'm glad you found it spoke to you.

I followed the advice at the end of the article to try and "not throw the boomerang back".... It did not work. He just got angrier and sabotaged me in other ways, the abuse ramped up once I knew it was on purpose. Because that is their dirty little secret, they do it on purpose.

In the end it can only work if the PA partner recognises they are doing something wrong and are open to really changing this about themselves. Unfortunately the behaviour is often so ingrained a part of them that they refuse to see that there is a problem, and worse if they do recognise it as a problem for you they don't want to change because they get everything they need and want acting this way, always have so why fix it if it isn't broken?

I really feel for you because you have a long way to go yet and I expect you will do what I did - stay and try and make it work.
Completely understandable and you're not wrong to try, I really hope it works for you but bear this in mind - if he is passive aggressive you can try till you are exhausted but if he is unwilling you can't do the work for him.

If he won't change we're always about to chat to

@WhoIsPepeSilva

I'm glad you found it spoke to you.

I followed the advice at the end of the article to try and "not throw the boomerang back".... It did not work. He just got angrier and sabotaged me in other ways, the abuse ramped up once I knew it was on purpose. Because that is their dirty little secret, they do it on purpose.

In the end it can only work if the PA partner recognises they are doing something wrong and are open to really changing this about themselves. Unfortunately the behaviour is often so ingrained a part of them that they refuse to see that there is a problem, and worse if they do recognise it as a problem for you they don't want to change because they get everything they need and want acting this way, always have so why fix it if it isn't broken?

I really feel for you because you have a long way to go yet and I expect you will do what I did - stay and try and make it work.
Completely understandable and you're not wrong to try, I really hope it works for you but bear this in mind - if he is passive aggressive you can try till you are exhausted but if he is unwilling you can't do the work for him.

If he won't change we're always about to chat to

I learned this too. Who knew?

Oh sorry and to add - one of the worst mistakes I ever made was to think that if he could just understand how it was making me feel he would stop because he wasn't a bad person. Anyone who realised they were causing harm to another would stop, yes?

Wrong. He understood exactly what he was doing to me and secretly, he revelled in it.

One of the most brain melting things I have ever had to accept. Acceptance was not quick in coming, it took me years to wake up and a few more to leave.

because it's heart breaking.