Was your family similar to this? Am I being a middle class self indulgent brat?

[Strugglingdj]

I posted before a couple of years ago on this. Still making sense of it. I started therapy recently and finding it hard. I had such a nice childhood with a great school, parents present for sports days and parents evenings etc. Had plenty of gifts and good food and warm home. Car when I was 17. Money for a house. I’m bruised by how broken I was though.

Are these things more common than my therapist tells me?

My dad used to drag me around by the hair if I didn’t got to bed. I mentioned it many years later and he said well what would you do with a child who wouldn’t sleep. I remember clumps of my hair all over the stairs. I would get into bed feeling hurt all over, nothing drastic or life threatening, but aching all over.

Both parents would make comments to me like I was an attention seeker, I was dramatic, I was a little hitler, I was a pain, I was a nightmare to bring up, was I the devil they would ask me often… they’d say why wasn’t I like Claire at school, why couldn’t I be like a normal child and read magazines, why wasn’t I more like my sister. I would often hear them talking to other family members about me and saying how awful I was and how difficult things had been for them. I’m not sure if they knew I could hear but I spent much of my childhood very confused.

I don’t think I was a bad child. I was very anxious but I worked hard at school, I was polite to adults and really rather quiet and reserved. I didn’t drink in my teens or smoke or get involved in anything I shouldn’t. My worst trait was that I was anxious I think and a very insecure child.

I remember at primary school I would wait for my teacher to arrive in the hallway and run to give her a hug. Every day. I told a friend I loved her more than I loved my mum. I was only 5 and I look back on it now and wonder why I felt so desperately that I needed to have that connection. What was I missing at home. This theme continued into my teens when I spent nearly every night with a neighbour who was 20 years older than my mum and we’d walk her dog and talk about things together. I felt respected around her. I clung to her for many years and my parents often mocked me that I was having an affair with her I wasn’t. They were obviously hurting and jealous perhaps that I used to do this. I guess it was company for my neighbour too so she was quite happy for me to tag along to walks and call in for a tea.

At uni holidays my parents would expect that I would be back with them and tell me they wanted me to go back but then simultaneously say they were dreading it and I was a guest in their house it wasn’t my home and I should be respectful. I had no privacy and when I went out for work often my room would have been cleaned and tidied within an inch and all my things moved including diaries and private work I was doing. I wasn’t allowed to use the washing machine but at the same time was told I was lazy and never cleaned…I wasn’t allowed to cook and if I did it would cause arguments as the kitchen would become messy with the cooking. I didn’t know how to cook for many many years after I left. I was often given money and told to go out to eat instead. My mum would cook most nights but if I said I was allergic to something or didn’t want to drink wine then I would be mocked and told if I didn’t like it then leave. I’d ask for example not to have gravy as there was wine in it and they’d lie and say there wasn’t…all sounds petty and middle class but I felt so disrespected, like a nobody with no ability to make my own decisions. If I ate particular food in the fridge my dad would go mad saying that was for him and it was expensive etc (they had money so not sure why cost was an issue). There was always food to eat but I just had to eat what wasn’t for them. I would then start to use my own money to buy bits and pieces I wanted to eat and was told that I was taking up room in their fridge and that wasn’t acceptable.

I have no idea who I am really, even now. Not sure why I am posting maybe to gauge whether this is more common than I think and maybe I am being dramatic and self indulgent in thinking about this all this time later.

@coffeeisthebest

I'm so sorry OP and for anyone else who has suffered at the hands of their parents. I have found any of the books by Alice Miller really helpful, she is very blunt about the power that parents have and the possible abuse of this power. 'The body never lies' is great, it's about how the body stores the memory of what has been endured. Good luck with therapy and I hope that you have found a space to take your pain. It is all valid. There is no 'normal', but there are so many adults who have children with absolutely no idea how to love or care for them, as they have never been shown themselves. It is a horrifying cycle and the only way to break through is with knowledge.

@coffeeisthebest. Fantastic post and spot on 👌🏻 I wish this was more widely understood. I’d be delighted if somehow society could embrace /educate about breaking that cycle .

OP lots of good advice on here and support for you .
Take care of yourself and get help to work through things to free your mind and soul .
It will be life changing.

I get it OP. On paper my life was charmed. Being adopted and considering the alternative,even more so.

In reality there was mental,emotional and sometimes physical abuse too, even neglect in some ways. I know dad loved me but he was blind to it all, and tbh both me and my mum hid most of it from him. Yes there was love at times and kindness and nice time but only on her terms. In a way it made it worse, because I massively The withdrawal of it as my fault. I remember wanting to run away from home, not because I was miserable but because they deserved a better child.

It took me years to accept the truth, and more importantly that it was not my fault, that I was never going to be good enough so I just stopped trying and lived life on my terms and took ownership of it... mistakes and all.

I have an ok relationship with mum now (helped by moving countries) and while I do love her.. I don't "need" her or her approval or permission anymore. That makes thing 100 times easier.

You don't say how old you are, but I am 51, and experienced a similar type upbringing.

Myself and my sister always had what we needed, nice home, clean clothes, food on the table, loads of Christmas presents, nice holidays etc, but, my Dad was an alcoholic (still is), and would frequently fly into horrendous rages. This happened several times a week, every week for the 11 final years I was at home. I remember it starting around age 9, and I left at 20.

My parents were always having dinner parties at home, or often full on house parties. They always ended with the house being trashed and my Dad throwing stuff around like glasses/plates, or punching walls, and always threatening to punch my Mum's lights out (although he never did hit her). My sister and I would be upstairs terrified. He also drove us back from the pub when he was drunk. We were both smacked frequently, sometimes across the face. But yes, we had all the nice things too. It's confusing, isn't it?

My Dad was always apologetic when he sobered up. Until the next time of course. My Mum should have left him really. Even after I left home, the pattern continued. Often family get togethers would end in disaster (drunken arguments). When I look back, I see a pattern. When my Mum would visit her siblings, if often ended in drunken raging rows. I mean, why?

My Mum died last year, and even when she was unwell, they were rowing. My Dad is now in a retirement home, and still has to drink heavily every day. He has mellowed massively, and we haven't had a row now for years. He is very affectionate and calls me every day. Always tells me he loves and and I say it back, but I just feel a bit numb about him really. I feel sorry for him, as he's a bit frail, but it's hard to feel the kind of love that I think I should feel, if that makes sense.

I hate arguing now, in any way. It just makes me cry. Thankfully, arguing in this house is very rare. It's just me, DH and our adult DD, and we never have the big rows that I saw growing up.

My sister, on the other hand, has picked up the mantle from my Dad, and causes massive arguments all the time, with friends and relatives. She's a big bully, just like Dad was. She has ruined lots of family get togethers by having huge meltdowns where she's so aggressive that she seems on the verge of punching someone. She's had multiple disciplinaries at work for being aggressive with staff. She has threatened to hit people in shops, if they aren't wearing masks. She hospitalised me last year, by being so aggressive towards me, that I had a panic attack and an ambulance was called. She didn't apologise for this. Her DH is her enabler, because whatever she does, he always tells her she's right. She was sending me abusive messages las year - up to 30 a day - and I had to go NC. We have not spoken since January. She asked me to keep in touch with her DC, and when I tried to facilitate this, she refused access, so I can't see my niece or nephew now. They are only young, and I know they are growing up in the same toxic environment that we were. But to anyone on the outside, things are more than fine - they are very wealthy and have the best of everything.

My only advice would be to try to live a calm life in the here and now. Don't repeat the pattern.

Thank you @babbi, I really wish that too.

It's been said by many others, but you were absolutely abused as a child/young adult. I'm so sorry.

There is no amount of providing for someone that grants the right to abuse them. It's not a commodity that can be bought. That, I think, is the 'obligation' part of the fear, obligation and guilt. Money and security is so often used as a way to control someone, but it doesn't generate obligation unless you agree to it (as in, agree in writing, freely and in sound mind) - which almost never happens in abuse situations.

Well done for recognising it, getting therapy, and hopefully living a better life free from their abuse.

@PearlyBird A big hug for you and your inner child x

In short, I don't believe anything can change your parents perception of events or behaviour towards you. My view (helped by some reading on here and recommended books) is that they are INCAPABLE.

It's why you need NC while you try to heal and establish your own very strong boundaries. Whether LC can work for you depends on your own work.

It is constant (exhausting at times!) work but the rewards are so rich. You can see things more clearly, feel your own feelings, discover your own needs and wants. Discover just how wonderful you are. And that being lovable is an automatic right and not conditional on anything. LOVE AND RESPECT IS NOT CONDITIONAL. And that goes for loving and respecting yourself. Even more so than from others.

The Stately Homes threads on here really helped me. Transactional analysis based therapy. Reading about emotionally immature parents.

Take care x

It is so hard when you are conflicted between the good stuff they did and the awful stuff. They were v v abusive but you are struggling to see it as they have messed up your head by giving enough good stuff to convince you that you are in the wrong. If you try to raise it or challenge it you will probably be met with a barrage about how ungrateful you are and that they were the perfect parents and you are exaggerating etc etc.
It really fucks you up.this stuff.

@flapjackfairy spot on.

@Griefmonster thank you. Im in that phase where I understand it rationally and have read enough accounts from other people to know that it's very unlikely that one day they'll just GET IT and acknowledge that they hurt me but ............... that's what therapy has helped me with.
18 months ago I went in there feeling the weight of their opinions of me very heavily. And now, I feel the weight of their opinions of me less oppressively. Still haven't completely let go of that dream that they might get it one day! But I know now that what I think of me is more forefront in my sense of myself. Or rather, I feel that what I knnow about me is more forefront in my sense of myself.
Because it's two different things isn't it? Understanding what's going on and feeling what you know. I've have to learn it twice. Go through it twice.

Thank god for my therapist. When everybody else was dying for a haircut last summer, I was waiting to be seen! Luckily she has seen me once a fortnight since then.

I would really recommend it to anybody who's thinking 'maybe....... should i?'

I never really saw myself as a person who had cause to go to therapy because I had been trained to see myself through my parents' lens. ie, Blessed, with NOTHING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT.

They'd be so angry if they knew that I had been at therapy the last 18 months!

So I'm keeping that to myself. It's none of their business, but also they'd devalue any epiphanies I've had over the last 18 months. They'd see it as a therapist putting ideas in my head.

They won't value my perspective regardless but i really feel the need to keep the fact that I've been seeing a therapist private from them (and from my golden child brother who'd roll his eyes).

I am talking about myself too much on somebody else's thread but I hope @Strugglingdj you feel less unusual reading other people's similar situations.

My parents genuinely think they were WONDERFUL parents even though I was trained to have no perspective. I ended up with an abusive man and he was not just a bit abusive, he was financially, emotionally, verbally and physically abusive. And I think I only left because the physical and financial abuse was new to me, but I can really see now looking back that the gaslighting he subjected me to didn't feel all that wrong at the time. I just had the same feeling I'd always had, hoping that I could be a better version of myself, less inadequate, scrape by through trying harder.

Massive respect to anybody who managed to emerge from crappy parenting and find themselves in a good marriage. After I left abusive x that was it. Single now at 51 but all the better for it.

As I age I see more clearly how strange and 'other' are peoples psychology. People operating with utter certainty, with no ability to imagine the consequence of their behaviour remaining wilfully in the dark about the emotional world of humans.

Others, like you and me and other posters here, have to unpick the damage and deal with the consequences. However, that is better than blindly passing on the patterns to our children. I'd rather be the damaged and enlightened person I am now than a successful product of my parents dysfunction.

My parents were actually not as bad as yours, and it was my brother who was the scapegoat (with a life long addiction issue because of it) and like yours, they were amazing grandparents and far more attentive as they grew older.

My mother would say hurtful throwaway things and they caused intense pain and confusion. and I vowed never to hurt my daughter with words. and I don't think I ever have.

Our parents probably had many painful things happen to them, but without a climate of self-reflection their hurt remained unconscious, unprocessed and finally, projected onto their own children, as unconscious and painful material often is.

On top of that you get a double wammy when 2 people come together and form a co-dependancy of dysfunction and unkindness, as your parents seem to have. They clearly had no conception of your world and the power they wielded.

You do not say how old you are now or if you have children. I can tell you that being a parent helped me mend. Though in the 4 years previously to giving birth I had cut them off. I think that helped me too - though I'm not recommending that.

Keep up with the therapy. Change your therapist if you feel they are not helping you enough. Another idea would be to take control and start to get your parents to talk about their childhoods and life. I have a greater understanding of my parents dysfunction because I know about their quite brutal childhoods. Don't expect revelation from them, it's about your education.

It's been a tough journey - but I really like the person I am now. In later years I did get some admissions from my father - that he had never considered my education (as a girl) and that he was unnecessarily harsh on my brother. I never accused him - I just opened up conversation and asked the right questions at key points.

Good luck.

@judgejudyrocks the repercussions on the next generation are so sad.

Does your sister ever take a step back and see parallels between her behavior and your dad's?

I guess she is triggered by any opposition/conflict and not empowered enough to calmly state her view. I am not like your sister honestly but in some circumstances I wither and and get very upset (crying not shouting) when people misunderstand me, give what I've said the most negative interpretation possible, overlook me, forget me, ignore me etc.. It's very triggering of original wounds for me. LESS and less since I have been goig to therapy though.

And she's found the perfect partner in an enabler. So she'll never look at her responses to stress :-(

My brother and I were never close but I used to respect him, but since he has joined m&d mobbing me (seeing me through their lens) I have lost all respect for him and that's all there was. He is the Golden child and he has fared better in the family. His status in the family is higher. They hang on his every word. I believe that golden children can suffer more when the parents die and scapegoat children feel freed.

@Strugglingdj. My parents weren't as extreme as yours but similar slightly. Mum was passive aggression with me as a child and would do my best hair every morning before schooling, digging their hairbrush in so much it hurt, I had a horrible toothy hair grip that looks like a pom pom and she'd dig it into so much it felt like it was breaking the skin on my skull. I remember my dad saying to dinner guests how much I weighed as an 11 Yr old, I wasted mortified , I wasn't that fat either. I'd be expected to clean up the kitchen as soon as I got home from school, regardless that I'd have to walk mile and a half there and back then all round the school to different lessons all day and if I didn't get there'd be massive arguments. In the end from about 13 I'd refuse to get out of bed until she left for work because she'd taken to shouting and having a go at me for something or other at me every morning. Lucky I was a good kid and made my way to school on time every day. She'd take the mic out of me and then tell me to lighten up and why was I so serious.

@rosabug this is incredible:

I'd rather be the damaged and enlightened person I am now than a successful product of my parents dysfunction.

AMEN to that x

Just to add for those with scapegoat/golden child dynamics. Please have compassion for the golden child. They are either that "successful product of your parents dysfunction" (and therefore not at all their own person) or at some point they "awaken" and the trauma is intense. My brother was the golden child to my father and I truly believe the trauma of his awakening contributed to his fatal mental health breakdown.

Although I outwardly suffered more from my father's dysfunction, I have survived.

@Griefmonster

Just to add for those with scapegoat/golden child dynamics. Please have compassion for the golden child. They are either that "successful product of your parents dysfunction" (and therefore not at all their own person) or at some point they "awaken" and the trauma is intense. My brother was the golden child to my father and I truly believe the trauma of his awakening contributed to his fatal mental health breakdown.

Although I outwardly suffered more from my father's dysfunction, I have survived.

This is so true, no one is immune from the dysfunction. We all have to face the past, therefore trauma is incomparable. I have spent more time in pain being the victim and comparing myself. It is pointless. That's why therapy is a process we must go through alone, and what we do with it with our relationships outside the therapeutic space is always secondary to the work that occurs within our own space. And I believe that from this we learn to honour our own history and accept that others being their own historical baggage along too. Such essential work though, and I couldn't agree more with this 'I'd rather be the damaged and enlightened person I am now than a successful product of my parents dysfunction.'

I just want to offer a different perspective. Because I’m a struggling parent with a difficult child.

Ds has asd, and probable ODD, and his behaviour is objectively, measurably difficult

But more importantly the world is a very difficult place for him. And despite my best efforts, he finds regular daily life a struggle, in a myriad of ways that I can barely fathom.

I would never drag him by his hair. Or physically hurt him. Or do any of the things that you have described. I have to remember not to pat his head affectionately in passing or kiss him without checking first.

He is sensitive and dramatic because he misreads social cues and cannot always separate accidental hurts and slights from deliberate ones.

I know that I’m not able to meet his needs completely. And there are times when he exhausts and exasperates me. But my job, is to keep trying. I just love him more.

My point is that my ds is in fact some of the things that your dp’s have accused you of being, and not one of those attributes, not one is any excuse for the way you’ve been treated.

I constantly feel like an inadequate parent but good god yours were monstrous.

I think your deep unmet need for love and acceptance as a child is blinding you and that you desperately need to believe them to at least be good parents to you now.

I have my own childhood scars and I have a little practice that I do from time to time. I imagine that I can time travel (like the Time Traveller’s Wife book), and I visit myself at different times in the past, and give my younger self a hug and the love, acceptance, encouragement and reassurance that I so badly needed. I had to do this with a therapist in the beginning because it was so hard. But it’s become natural now when thoughts arise. And sometimes when I’m going through a difficult time now I wonder if my future self is with me, urging me on.

Please do persevere with therapy. It takes time to heal

No, you weren't a spoilt brat. Your parents were physically and emotionally abusive. Your story is remarkably similar to mine except my Dad wouldn't have done the hair thing. The issue for me now is that my parents a) won't accept that their behaviour was damaging and b) won't accept my boundaries. I don't want to cease all contact with them and I know their own childhood trauma contributes to their behaviour but I can only do it with self protecting boundaries in place. You say your parents are now different but have they ever demonstrated any genuine remorse or apologised for their behaviour?

Yes, I feel for my golden child brother. He's way too enmeshed with our parents, and although it does hurt me that he sees everything through their lens, that in itself is why I worry about him. I will be sad when our parents die but I think he will flounder in his identity (I predict, but obviously cannot know).

@Greycats boundaries! NOT ALLOWED in my family. I asked my Mother really politely not to let herself in to my house and put back books she'd borrowed on my bed. I said that the kitchen table would have been fine and she sent back a text saying she was ''disgusted with my nasty behavior''. And this is the problem, my mum sees any request I make for my ''self'' as an act of aggression perpetrated against her. But sees herself as a really good person.

So I can walk away and i have, to protect myself, but I have to live with them thinking I'm a brat. I know I"m not though.

That sounds horrible OP, definitely not what I'd call remotely a "normal" parent/child relationship. Unconditional love and a deep sense of security (which you didn't get) are so much more important than money.

@PearlyBird do we actually have the same mother? What you describe is so familiar. People often remark on how patient and passive I am. I wish I had a pound for every time I've been told to "believe in myself" and just think "you mean I'm allowed to have a self"

They sound ill suited to Parenthood at best, maliciously abusive at worst. Either way, your experiences in your formative years were damaging and they were the cause. It is for them to examine why they were this way, if they would be so inclined but for you, you can rest assured what you had is not conducive to feeling self assured in who you are or what your value is and that is your truth. Hopefully you can find help for these scars and hey to a place where you can realise your original potential to be a freely loved human with acceptance.

You’re worth ten of them OP.

@greycats, same, i was so passive too. Life happened to me. I never dared risk anything. Stayed small. Stayed safe. My parents created that fearfulness in me, but somehow, with that fear, i was expected to go out in to the world and be brave and confident!!! Get a great job. Marry a great man. That didnt happen. Although im ok now. Single parent to teenagers but we are ok. And self aware, thank goodness, so my own dc and i have real connections. We're not just playing our roles.

I tried to give my mum a letter a while ago, to explain why i felt how i do. (Not that i havent told her clearly already!!) But she wouldnt take it. I got upset and tried to push it on to her. It fell to the floor. She was glancing about nervously to see if any neighbours had seen.

That's when I realised. She cares more what the neighbours think than she cares what her only daughter feels.

Madness imo. But she still sees herself as the victim of me. Im the bad person. As @rosabug said upthread, some people's thinking is just so rigid. They are right. They are good. And those around them are in therapy hoping, hoping to heal.

I'm hoping all the experiences by all the posters have helped the OP to see that this definitely isn't her own fault. It's not you, you are entitled to be you. Your perspectives are valid. Trust your gut, if you felt something was wrong it probably was.
@PearlyBird me too, with the neighbours, I once sent my mother an email, trying, as gently as I could to explain to her. She threatened to call the police and have me charged with defaming her character. I was dangerously close to the edge in my teens and early twenties, I consider myself very lucky not to be in an abusive relationship, depressed or alcohol or drug dependent, I've been too close to all three a number of times. I've had a lot of therapy but what always pulled me through was telling myself over and over that I had a right to be me. Keep talking positively to yourself @Strugglingdj until you believe yourself!

I've read your posts thinking many of you could be me! I grew up with my dad, I've had a lot of fear my whole life, but was expected to go out, have a high flying career(I haven't) whilst simultaneously not taking any risks! He'd often say how he'd never taken risks. He was the only one allowed boundaries in our house, he could do as he liked. Emotional abuse 'I'll give you something to cry about' etc. I've been dragged by the hair too. Physical abuse that happened even as a adult, in his house only. I've been scared of men all my life, it took me a long time to realise why

I know for a fact he sees me as the problem, he's had the misfortune to have such an awful daughter - he's told me that, within earshot of my son. It's all 'ancient history' and if it's remembered at all, its through the filter of him being the good guy, or tells me he sees nothing wrong with being volatile around a child.

I was five when I was left with him, it took me years to work out why I've always been scared of men.

My mum was like that too, I soon found out, when I left him as soon as I can, she was much more reasonable and nicer just before she died though. Although for many years, it was me that was the problem

The hard bit is, my adult son who lives with my dad, is learning to treat me just like my dad does. I've struggled with many things for a long time, and I've messed up a lot, and he doesn't like me much, but I've tried to do my best for him. And wouldn't dream of treating him the way I've been treated. Dad has treated him perfectly, it was only me that got his treatment. But I'm the problem, seemingly, all the time, and he's learned to be so horrible to me. I don't accept being treated that way, I'm just so tired of it. Sorry for the long rant, there are so many of us. You're not alone OP