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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Was your family similar to this? Am I being a middle class self indulgent brat?

80 replies

Strugglingdj · 21/08/2021 10:54

I posted before a couple of years ago on this. Still making sense of it. I started therapy recently and finding it hard. I had such a nice childhood with a great school, parents present for sports days and parents evenings etc. Had plenty of gifts and good food and warm home. Car when I was 17. Money for a house. I’m bruised by how broken I was though.

Are these things more common than my therapist tells me?

My dad used to drag me around by the hair if I didn’t got to bed. I mentioned it many years later and he said well what would you do with a child who wouldn’t sleep. I remember clumps of my hair all over the stairs. I would get into bed feeling hurt all over, nothing drastic or life threatening, but aching all over.

Both parents would make comments to me like I was an attention seeker, I was dramatic, I was a little hitler, I was a pain, I was a nightmare to bring up, was I the devil they would ask me often… they’d say why wasn’t I like Claire at school, why couldn’t I be like a normal child and read magazines, why wasn’t I more like my sister. I would often hear them talking to other family members about me and saying how awful I was and how difficult things had been for them. I’m not sure if they knew I could hear but I spent much of my childhood very confused.

I don’t think I was a bad child. I was very anxious but I worked hard at school, I was polite to adults and really rather quiet and reserved. I didn’t drink in my teens or smoke or get involved in anything I shouldn’t. My worst trait was that I was anxious I think and a very insecure child.

I remember at primary school I would wait for my teacher to arrive in the hallway and run to give her a hug. Every day. I told a friend I loved her more than I loved my mum. I was only 5 and I look back on it now and wonder why I felt so desperately that I needed to have that connection. What was I missing at home. This theme continued into my teens when I spent nearly every night with a neighbour who was 20 years older than my mum and we’d walk her dog and talk about things together. I felt respected around her. I clung to her for many years and my parents often mocked me that I was having an affair with her Hmm I wasn’t. They were obviously hurting and jealous perhaps that I used to do this. I guess it was company for my neighbour too so she was quite happy for me to tag along to walks and call in for a tea.

At uni holidays my parents would expect that I would be back with them and tell me they wanted me to go back but then simultaneously say they were dreading it and I was a guest in their house it wasn’t my home and I should be respectful. I had no privacy and when I went out for work often my room would have been cleaned and tidied within an inch and all my things moved including diaries and private work I was doing. I wasn’t allowed to use the washing machine but at the same time was told I was lazy and never cleaned…I wasn’t allowed to cook and if I did it would cause arguments as the kitchen would become messy with the cooking. I didn’t know how to cook for many many years after I left. I was often given money and told to go out to eat instead. My mum would cook most nights but if I said I was allergic to something or didn’t want to drink wine then I would be mocked and told if I didn’t like it then leave. I’d ask for example not to have gravy as there was wine in it and they’d lie and say there wasn’t…all sounds petty and middle class but I felt so disrespected, like a nobody with no ability to make my own decisions. If I ate particular food in the fridge my dad would go mad saying that was for him and it was expensive etc (they had money so not sure why cost was an issue). There was always food to eat but I just had to eat what wasn’t for them. I would then start to use my own money to buy bits and pieces I wanted to eat and was told that I was taking up room in their fridge and that wasn’t acceptable.

I have no idea who I am really, even now. Not sure why I am posting maybe to gauge whether this is more common than I think and maybe I am being dramatic and self indulgent in thinking about this all this time later.

OP posts:
Mummyratbag · 21/08/2021 12:33

Dragging someone around till their hair comes out in clumps is not normal and is very abusive.

Loving your teacher more than your mum is not normal.

Asking a child if they are the devil is not normal.

I'm so sorry you were treated this way. Please don't let anyone make you believe it was anything other than abusive. Flowers

nopeaceofmind · 21/08/2021 14:51

This is so sad to read OP. ThanksThere is no question that they were abusive. As you'll see on the threads about couples, Norman is 100% abusive all of the time.

As others have said their "niceness" was about respectability, fitting in, showcasingThanks.

I identify with you totally. My mother's punishment of choice was to hold me by the ears and bang my head off the floor. She knocked me unconscious about 3 times. Se would also take me into town & buy me expensive clothes. It was a very confusing mix.

I had all the business about being gay (whatever the fuck is wrong with that) because I had a best friend as a teenager and spent a lot of time with her. I also spent a lot of time with an auntie who didn't pick on me all the time.

Trying to get your kids to go to bed can be difficult but you try persuasion, sanctions (no screens tomorrow if you don't go to sleep) etc. It just wouldn't cross most people's minds to drag their child around by the hair. It is really sick and twisted, and they condoned each other.

nopeaceofmind · 21/08/2021 14:53

Norman is abusive 100% of the time Grin

No man, obviously.

I've heard that Trevor is though. Wink

PearlyBird · 21/08/2021 14:54

Omg banging your head off the floor. Good grief.

Id say op you ask us do you sound like a self indulgent brat because :-( you see yrslf through yr parents eyes, and they do not think you have ANY right to complain or be less than content or to feel you deserved better.

Orgasmagorical · 21/08/2021 16:48

My mother's punishment of choice was to hold me by the ears and bang my head off the floor. She knocked me unconscious about 3 times.

Bloody hell, nopeace, that is horrific Flowers. Did she ever 'own' her behaviour?

Colourmeclear · 21/08/2021 17:37

Sounds very abusive to me. It's not all that helpful to ask what is common and what is normal. It doesn't make you feel any different, it just gives you permission to deny your own experience. How did your inner child feel at the time? I'm guessing scared and alone and like life was unfair. That it was overwhelming and you were the problem. We carry that with us as adults.

This is not the same thing at all, but I was smacked as a child and for years I assumed that I felt the same as everyone else was saying around me "I was smacked as a child and it didn't do me any harm". One day I really felt what it was like to be that little girl and really examined what I learnt from it (which I won't go into here). It was a real struggle because I was looking for reasons to push my hurt down rather than finding reasons to feel it and work through it. Avoiding pain is natural but it's still there unheard, like the child you were all those years ago. The question isn't is this normal, it's how can I find healing for the younger you that was so hurt and to love her in a way that she knows she is loved now.

lljkk · 21/08/2021 18:04

@Strugglingdj

They’re not bad people and they’ve done some very kind and lovely things for me. They can be very supportive and caring. They seem brilliant at this now we are at a distance but when I was growing up I felt awful around them all the time. They’d be devastated if they knew I was thinking about all these things. I do believe they only ever wanted the best for me.
The first post didn't describe lovely parents.

Sorry, OP. I'm saying this as a marginally poor parent myself-- your parents sound awful. They made you feel like you should be grateful for their crumbs of support while they treated you badly and as unwanted most the time.
You were anxious child because you had to earn their crumbs of kindness.
It's a horrible picture.

nopeaceofmind · 21/08/2021 18:47

Orgasmagorical has she owned her behaviour? As you might expect, not a chance. She's still abusive now. I last time I spoke to her a few weeks ago.

It's true that the verbal abuse is worse than the physical, because when the physical is taking place (it could be anything, a whole pint of milk thrown all over you while you brace in the corner, followed by the kettle that hasn't fully boiled, so that you don't smell of milk & there's no "evidence") you sort of remove yourself. But you can't remove the memory of what has been said to you about your worthlessness as a human being.

That's the bit I identify with most, strugglingdj, having no sense of self. It's difficult to feel worth anything when it's been said that you're not, so many times.
I apologise for hijacking your thread but I'm having a bad day.

I'm permanently damaged. I've overheard phone messages (when they thought they'd hung up) and so on where they talk about me with complete contempt.

I think I recognise your story from other threads you've started. I really feel for you. You are worth something. You didn't deserve it. I'd like to enter your house when that was happening & give you a cuddle.

Orgasmagorical · 21/08/2021 18:56

Bloody hell, I want to give you a cuddle, nopeace, that is so awful to read, I just can't imagine what it is like to have gone through it. My parents weren't the best when we were growing up (why the fuck do they have children??) but nothing compared to yours. I'm not surprised you say you're permanently damaged, it's impossible not to be shaped by your upbringing. I hope you have had or can get some help though, so that you can find some happiness in your life Flowers

Dontwatchfootball · 21/08/2021 19:31

Not dramatic, not self indulgent, you are describing abusive behaviour. I truly think that some parents are just completely unable to understand that mocking their children is harmful and horrible. You are second guessing yourself and downplaying your experiences because that is what you were taught. Not all families were like this. I am glad you have support from your therapist.

Windmillwhirl · 21/08/2021 19:38

It can be very difficult to accept your parents abused you. It might be worth reading Running on Empty by Jonice Webb. It sounds like you were emotionally neglected and sought out attachments with other parental figures.

I'm so sorry for all you went through.

LBirch02 · 21/08/2021 19:58

There are so many similarities between my upbringing and yours OP I found that standing up for my rights in an adult way totally changed the dynamic

EmeraldShamrock · 21/08/2021 20:01

I'm sorry your parents were verbally mentally and physically abusive. 😔
It is often hidden or ignored within a MC family.
Your father is disgusting pulling your hair.

GreenClock · 21/08/2021 20:04

Outwardly nice middle-class married parents get away with a lot more than parents from lower socioeconomic groups because they cleverly avoid getting on to the radar of teachers, social services, other parents etc. I bet that all your old schoolfriends think they were lovely and ask after them fondly now.

Just because you had the financial accoutrements of a middle-class upbringing, doesn’t mean you weren’t abused. Don’t minimise what happened to you, OP. It wasn’t ok.

coffeeisthebest · 21/08/2021 20:36

I'm so sorry OP and for anyone else who has suffered at the hands of their parents. I have found any of the books by Alice Miller really helpful, she is very blunt about the power that parents have and the possible abuse of this power. 'The body never lies' is great, it's about how the body stores the memory of what has been endured. Good luck with therapy and I hope that you have found a space to take your pain. It is all valid. There is no 'normal', but there are so many adults who have children with absolutely no idea how to love or care for them, as they have never been shown themselves. It is a horrifying cycle and the only way to break through is with knowledge.

lochmaree · 21/08/2021 20:53

Sounds abusive OP. none of that is normal. Sad you might want to look into attachment disorders too. I'm sorry it was like this for you. my DH had an abusive childhood, though he doesnt really believe it was abusive, he's just minimised it all as it was normal for him. Him and his 2 sisters all have significant mental health problems and issues forming or maintaining relationships (all, not just romantic) They went to private /grammar schools, did lots of sport, have had plenty of significant financial help even well into adulthood and whenever his parents start stiring up trouble, he never wants to stand up for himself because "they've been so good to me" and he will always give them the benefit of the doubt despite the fact he wouldn't tolerate their behaviour from anyone else. he can now see the behaviour though and is much better at setting boundaries etc. the main point is, he didnt want to consider that they've been unkind/abusive because they've always supported him financially. I hope you can find something to help you work through this. ❤

lochmaree · 21/08/2021 20:58

@GreenClock

Outwardly nice middle-class married parents get away with a lot more than parents from lower socioeconomic groups because they cleverly avoid getting on to the radar of teachers, social services, other parents etc. I bet that all your old schoolfriends think they were lovely and ask after them fondly now.

Just because you had the financial accoutrements of a middle-class upbringing, doesn’t mean you weren’t abused. Don’t minimise what happened to you, OP. It wasn’t ok.

this is so true, my DHs mother was a teacher and they always had an outward appearance of perfection but at home there was physical and emotional abuse for 2 out of the 3 siblings. Social services were apparently involved when DH (the eldest) was very young but it never went any further and they were never involved again despite the abuse being worst for the middle child.
Jesskir89 · 22/08/2021 00:09

I'm so sorry you went through this op. There's a thread on here called 'well we took you to stately homes' i think you could benefit from joining it

Volterra · 22/08/2021 00:26

I don’t think anyone is going to say your parents behaviour is anything other than both physically and emotionally abusive, so sorry you went through this 💐

NiceGerbil · 22/08/2021 00:32

Well from what I've seen from your OP

They were very controlling
Totally lacking in empathy/ interest in you as a person
And your dad was violent towards you that sounds terrifying

So no. They were abusive. Money etc doesn't mean children are cared for/ loved as they should be.

Some of this resonates with me. They didn't do those things but other stuff that was really just pretty awful. Always being forced into a mould I didn't fit. My mum was way worse.

They can't see it at all. If I mention anything really bad she says that never happened/ you're making it up and walks off.

Anyway. No not normal and not ok.

EKGEMS · 22/08/2021 00:32

What the hell? "That sounds abusive?!" "Sounds abusive?" Ya think? Your childhood was a textbook example of an abusive childhood in every way. So they can be nice? You are up to your eyeballs in the FOG-I wish you well. I swear I'd never speak to them ever again

memberofthewedding · 22/08/2021 00:34

Your childhood sounds a lot like mine except that we were poor working class. My sister was the golden princess and I the black sheep. I was sent to school in second hand clothes from the market and cardboard in the soles of my shoes until my gran came to the rescue. She took the part of your neighbour with whom you spent so much time. There was a scandal which split my family and I did not find out the true story til I was 18, but I wont go into that. Once I left home at 22 I got on much better with my parents. However I always loved my gran more. It was she who encouraged me to study and apply myself. My parents thought of getting an education and being a "lazy student".

Griefmonster · 22/08/2021 00:50

@GreenClock

Outwardly nice middle-class married parents get away with a lot more than parents from lower socioeconomic groups because they cleverly avoid getting on to the radar of teachers, social services, other parents etc. I bet that all your old schoolfriends think they were lovely and ask after them fondly now.

Just because you had the financial accoutrements of a middle-class upbringing, doesn’t mean you weren’t abused. Don’t minimise what happened to you, OP. It wasn’t ok.

This is very true.

When I was in therapy for my fucked up family dynamics and I mentioned to my therapist about me not knowing myself, how I feel etc, he said it was very common in situations like mine, and tours I would guess.

As many others have said, your parents don't see you as a whole, separate person from them. You can get there though. I am now NC with my father and keep my.mother at an emotional distance. She has more empathy. My father has none.

PearlyBird · 22/08/2021 08:44

Do they ever see you as a separate person @Griefmonster?
Sounds like your mother is the enabler?
I always felt less anger towards my father but lately I'm furious with him, he has thrown me under a bus for an easy life. He just backs up mum without any critical thinking.

There must be some small part of him that knows that what Pearly did was tell Mum that Mum hurt Pearly. A rational person would understand that Pearly is the judge of when Pearly is hurt. But no, he raced over to my house to give out to me for ''hurting mum''.

I felt sickened by his enabling.

My mother is a people pleaser to everybody else except to me, she doesn't see me as a separate person and gets angry with me for having my own perspective.

Not only does she not say sorry for hurting me, she won't acknowledge that she / they hurt me and worse, she flings herself up on the cross, outraged that I consider myself hurt (by her). That is a mere grudge apparently although it's never been discussed, but the ''hurt'' i caused her by telling her that she hurt me.... that hurt is real and affects her health and i'm responsible for that.....

At every step of this inconsistent treatment of me my Dad backs her up.

I have stepped back and just respond to the odd text now.

They want me back in the family but they want be back in that vulnerable place where I'm close enough to be hurt by them, but then they will be angry with me if I react to their hurtful behavior by being hurt.

It's a total headfuck but they are still there with their Stalwarts of the Parish self-perception of themselves.

It's been nearly 18 months now and my mum seems less angry with me now. I'm wondering if she has realised that the tactic of manipulating me doesn't work any more.

Not saying that she isn't manipulative but wondering if she's stopped pulling that tool from her arsenal.

So just wondering if 18 months of very lc can change parents' bad behaviours. YKWIM?

If you're reading OP, stick with the therapy, I've been seeing a therapist once a fortnight the last year and it's really helped. I don't feel invincible but I do feel like I have the right to my own perspective and goddamit i'm standing firm in my own perspective.

Comtesse · 22/08/2021 08:55

Glad you are seeing a therapist - sounds like sadly there is a lot to talk about Flowers

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