would it be a very bad idea to give my mum a series of counselling sessions as a 'gift'??? this might be long. sorry.

[belcantavinissima]

i am seriously considering this. i personally think she has some kind of bi-polar disorde but of course i could never say this to herr. she is super one minute and the next she is almost suicidal. i never know what i am going to get.

she never seems happy with her life, she doesnt seem to like my father (who is very very easy going but a bit stuck in his ways and likes a very rigid routine), she cant make any decisions (currently not being able to find the right curtains for the lounge has sent her into depression) , she spent years looking after her parents then latterly just her mother (note- they didnt need looking after). the weirdest things tip her over the edge into like i said at the moment it is decorating the house. i have offered to take it over but thats no good either apparently even though whatever i do in my own house she says she wishes she'd thought of that.

she doesnt have any friends. and i mean literally none. her mother really was her only friend. and now she only has me. but i find her exhausting and its bringing me down. i love her to bits and we speak on the phone every day and she only lives 3 or 4 miles away. but she is never happy with her 'lot', she will die muttering about how she has had a rubbish life (which imo she hasnt at all). she ruined my wedding plans with her depression caused by not being able to find an outfit (hers! not mine!) and i had her cousin calling me saying how she was really worried about her etc). her and dad are both retired and they have money to do things yet all they ever can think of to do is to go into town to have a coffee. they are wasting their life. she moans about my dad and how he doesnt speak to her and that she is worried he is developing dementia (he talks to me and his gym friends perfectly lucidly). she bears a grudge and remembers every single thing and will bring it back up (lately she has been talking alot about how i really upset her (wtf?) when she and dad came to visit me and dd in hospital( 7 hours after she had been born in middle of night) and i apparently made a comment about how she smelt of cigarette smoke (well she was going to hold my brand new baby what did she expect???)- also this was just after she made a comment to me about how i looked really huge, like i was still pregant. thanks mum. but i dont keep bringing it up fgs.

i dont understand how she gets in such a state about 'nothing', i think she needs to speak to a professional about everything and maybe they can get to the root of it. iam an only child and she is an only child so have noone to 'share' this with. i fear she is going to bring me down with her. i feel i need some space. its suffocating. she suffocates me with her neediness and depression and i seem to be all she's got and i dont know how to deal with it. so i wondered about counselling. but dont know how she would react to it.

blimey that was quite long. sorry

IMO counselling needs to be sought by the person themselves - you can't make her go to the sessions

you sound like you have a very difficult relationship with your mum on many levels, and you clearly feel very responsible for her and her behaviours

i think you should try to take a bit of step back - you say she is bringing you down and you find it exhausting

this is not meant to sound flippant, but as you can't change her, why not look at changing the way you deal with it by having some counselling yourself?

actually, and don't take this the wrong way, I think maybe you should get some counselling yourself. You can't change how your mum behaves but you could maybe use counselling to find other ways of dealing with and responding to her. From what you've described of her, I think your mum is likely to be offended by you offering to pay for some counselling for her and you'll have given her another stick to beat you with.

It must be horrible to see someone you love needlessly making themselves miserable.

hope i've not offended you.

actually, and don't take this the wrong way, I think maybe you should get some counselling yourself. You can't change how your mum behaves but you could maybe use counselling to find other ways of dealing with and responding to her. From what you've described of her, I think your mum is likely to be offended by you offering to pay for some counselling for her and you'll have given her another stick to beat you with.

It must be horrible to see someone you love needlessly making themselves miserable.

hope i've not offended you.

i hear what youre saying rubyslippers the thing is i really and truly dont believe it is me with the problems and i feel i have done all i can really. i would just like her to have some kind of insight into herself really and find out what the problem is and explore it and take control of it rather than it controlling her. does that make sense?

no you havent offended me talktothebees

totally agree with ruby on this one. therapy is not something that someone who is in denial about any issues will go for.

if she is genuinely depressed /; bi polar a doctor can diagnose that and refer her and prescribe meds as necessary.

some people just are not sociable. some people just don;t know how to maintain relationships. some people are drains rather than radiators.. taking everything from people around them, rather than giving out warmth.

why do you think she is bi polar? sounds like she is simply depressed, lonely and in need of support.

you say she ruined your wedding plans with her depression.. depression is an illness, same as any others not done on purpose.

i think you might benefit from counselling, to learn strategies to cope with her , rather than trying to force her to change.

must be an unbearable situation, and very upsetting and depressing for you.

am sorry that you are going through this, but trying to make her have therapy is not the answer

also i am not aware that she even recognises what it does to other people or even that oyther people dont carry on like this. i think she thinks everyone is like her. oh i dont know. am waffling now.

you cannot force people to have insight into themeselves, or try to hold a mirror up to them that they are not ready to look into...

i am not trying to say you have problems, but rather counselling would give you the space to off load all your worries and upset about your mum and to get some coping strategies for dealing with her

what you are saying does make sense - you want her to understand her issues but that impetus has to come from her, not you

can you speak to your dad?

you might aswell offload it all here !

she wont go to the doctor. she def wont take any meds - i have suggested it. she is diabetic and she says she has enoug to take as iot is. she was diagnosed with breast cancer early this yr, v easy op, not spread, didnt even need radiotherapy, and i thought the experience would change her, make her realise how lucky she is to be alive and to have a loving family round her and to grasp opportunities with both hands. but it hasnt, i just dont understand it. its very frustrating. i suggested we went on a family holiday somewhere hot- her and my dad, my husband, me and the kids but she made excuses. its like she enjoys being miserable. like its a power thing. that sounds hearless. sorry. but i have had this a long time.

It does make sense for you to feel that she would benefit but bi-polar disorder (not that it sounds like that in the least to be honest) would not be helped necessarily with counselling and is generally more successfully treated with drugs as it is a chemical imbalance within the brain (like clinical depression).

Your Mum may well benefit from counselling but not if someone else has sounght it for her - counselling only works if the client wants to change and for the most part has initiated it themselves. By all means suggest it but be prepared for it to fall on deaf ears.

I agree that you would most likely benefit from it yourself, as it is your reactions to her (ie you are allowing her actions to impact on your feelings) that is causing you the most anguish I think. Maybe if she saw you going then it may prompt her to ask why and then possibly do it for herself.

I hope you manage to get somewhere with the situation as it is very difficult I know, especially when you are all she has.

Decent accredited counsellors will not even countenance making an appointment for someone who has not gone there of their own volition anyway- it would be deemed unethical.

I completely understand why you think needs counselling and how hard this is for you.

But like others have said, you can't change her unless she wants to change.

All you can change is your behaviour towards her. And a counsellor may help you to change your behaviour in order to maintain a distance from her and stop believing you are responsible for her.

I can see that you're all she has and you are a wonderful daughter to take on that responsibility and put up with the way she is. But it doesn't sound like you get anything back from this relationship except sadness and stress. You can't choose your family. But you can make decisions on how your relationship should be with them. You perhaps just need a bit of guidance to help you get the strength to distance yourself from her worries.

you don't sound heartless, you sound at your wit's end. It is hard to maintain sympathy for someone who will not admit they have a problem or seek help, even when you love them very much. You are not a bottomless pit and you have other responsibilities.

FWIW she may be afraid to let go of her depression precisely because, as you say, it gives her some power over people. Being unhappy and needy is the only way she knows to get attention, help and affection from people. She's probably not conscious of using her unhappiness to manipulate others.

It is very very hard to support someone with depression which I think is why so many of us are suggesting you talk to someone yourself.

...sorry meant to add - my post is not meant to imply in any way that you need counselling for a mental health problem, I hope you haven't read it like that. I can see how difficult she must be to deal with but as others have said it may give you the space you need to offload and some strategies to help you cope with her more effectively.

PS - my grandmother was a little bit like your Mum sounds, always moaning and whinging about something (usually one of us); she was 'dying' for 30 years before she actually did at 92, peacefully in her sleep. She'd actually never had a days 'proper' illness to cope with in her life.......but wasted it by imagining things. She was probably depressed but would never have admitted it as it would not have been 'the done thing'. Thank heavens our generation are growing up with a little more emotional awareness!

I think as you say, some people don't even realise that their attitudes aren't healthy and that they impact on others, such a waste of a life isn't it?

thanks everybody. how can i make her see she needs to go and see someone/ i do accept me making the appt isnt the way to go now .

i think the impetus to write this came this mornig after speaking to her on the phone she etill sounded a bit down (last night she hung up on me as she asked for my opnion on curtains (bloody effing curtains) and i didnt agree with er and she was feeling depressed about it so she hung uP). so this morning i asked her if she was feeling and did she know why she was feeling like it and she siad 'of course not, i didnt ask you when you were depressed, you just cant possibly know, you just are!'. well, let me say that when i was depressed it was because my marriage was falling apart, my husband was working 70-80 hours a week and i was struggling with 3 kids practically on my own and we were going to Relate and dh was telling me almosty daily he wanted a divorce. how the fuck can she compare that with her anguish over her ruddy curtains???

meant to add there, due to this clearly i am finding it very very hard to empathise with her and that is not helping!

I was about to write a huge long thing but actually, everyone else has said it so much better.

You can't change her. You can suggest she goes to the doctor but that's it. It really does sound like you need help learning how to deal with her (because she does sound challenging and it seems as though you have a very close relationship anyway).

I would suggest you take a step away if you can.

How many times a week are you speaking to her?

belcant - you can't make her see that.

You sound so angry. Please make an appointment for yourself instead.

Can you try distancing yourself from her a little? For instance not ringing her back when she'd put the phone down on you, it's hard I know as you obviously feel responsible for her, but you aren't you know - it sounds as though you have enough responsibilities of your own.

Part of anxiety based depression can be a complete inability to make decisions over small things. She cannot see that your experience was greater than hers because the 'curtain' issue is huge to her at that moment. It's hard to explain it like this but as far as she is concerned what she is going through is as big as what you went through possibly because she thinks that you are able to cope with so much more in the first place.

It's impossible to convince someone to see things through your eyes.

and now starting to feel likei am a shit mother too as dd iss left on he rown downstairs whilst i am moaning abooutm y mother to people i dont even 'know' iyswim

I think perhaps you have become trapped in prioritising your mother's emotional needs above all. If you have been raised this way, and it does sound a VERY intense relationship, then it is understandable that it distresses you to see her essentially sabotaging her own happiness.

However.

You cannot change her. You cannot control her. You cannot change the way she reacts to situations. It sounds pointless even challenging her ... the way she hangs the phone up if you dare to disagree is testament to that. You cannot feel the misery she feels and (probably unconsciously) wants you to feel with her.

Your emotions are your own. She doesn't own them. You are allowed to be ecstatically happy when she is as miserable as sin. You are allowed to be depressed when she is depressed too - it's not a competition and you are allowed to not be drawn in to compete.

Commiserate with her by all means, be there for her, offer her advice if you think she might ever take it - but don't let her make her feelings an integral part of your life.

but some people do become depressed without an obvious trigger and when you've been depressed for as long as your mum has even if something did trigger it originally, it's lost in the mists of time. Or she may remember exactly what triggered it but not want to discuss it.

part of her resistance to seeking help may be precisely because she feels she has no good reason to be depressed and is afraid that a doctor or counsellor would tell her to pull herself together.

FWIW, counselling doesn't necessarily have to involve digging into the past and discovering why you became depressed. CBT just focuses on how you are now and how you can change your behaviour and habitual thoughts. Some people are much more comfortable with this as an option and perhaps buying her a CBT book would make her more confident that there is a way out. When you are depressed, you can be afraid to seek help because if it doesn't work out you will have failed at yet another thing which seems unbearable.

nah, don't feel shit. Sometimes this is the best place to get advice specifically because people don't know you iyswim!

hmmm, friends do seem to think i am very 'strong' and can cope with everything but thats because i dont go round weping and wailing about everything all the time. maybe i do need to see someone