would it be a very bad idea to give my mum a series of counselling sessions as a 'gift'??? this might be long. sorry.

[belcantavinissima]

i am seriously considering this. i personally think she has some kind of bi-polar disorde but of course i could never say this to herr. she is super one minute and the next she is almost suicidal. i never know what i am going to get.

she never seems happy with her life, she doesnt seem to like my father (who is very very easy going but a bit stuck in his ways and likes a very rigid routine), she cant make any decisions (currently not being able to find the right curtains for the lounge has sent her into depression) , she spent years looking after her parents then latterly just her mother (note- they didnt need looking after). the weirdest things tip her over the edge into like i said at the moment it is decorating the house. i have offered to take it over but thats no good either apparently even though whatever i do in my own house she says she wishes she'd thought of that.

she doesnt have any friends. and i mean literally none. her mother really was her only friend. and now she only has me. but i find her exhausting and its bringing me down. i love her to bits and we speak on the phone every day and she only lives 3 or 4 miles away. but she is never happy with her 'lot', she will die muttering about how she has had a rubbish life (which imo she hasnt at all). she ruined my wedding plans with her depression caused by not being able to find an outfit (hers! not mine!) and i had her cousin calling me saying how she was really worried about her etc). her and dad are both retired and they have money to do things yet all they ever can think of to do is to go into town to have a coffee. they are wasting their life. she moans about my dad and how he doesnt speak to her and that she is worried he is developing dementia (he talks to me and his gym friends perfectly lucidly). she bears a grudge and remembers every single thing and will bring it back up (lately she has been talking alot about how i really upset her (wtf?) when she and dad came to visit me and dd in hospital( 7 hours after she had been born in middle of night) and i apparently made a comment about how she smelt of cigarette smoke (well she was going to hold my brand new baby what did she expect???)- also this was just after she made a comment to me about how i looked really huge, like i was still pregant. thanks mum. but i dont keep bringing it up fgs.

i dont understand how she gets in such a state about 'nothing', i think she needs to speak to a professional about everything and maybe they can get to the root of it. iam an only child and she is an only child so have noone to 'share' this with. i fear she is going to bring me down with her. i feel i need some space. its suffocating. she suffocates me with her neediness and depression and i seem to be all she's got and i dont know how to deal with it. so i wondered about counselling. but dont know how she would react to it.

It's easier to moan to people you don't know .

What do you think about making an appointment for yourself?

Not surprising you are finding it hard to cope: depressed people are incredibly draining to deal with. Frankly, her getting counselling wouldn't automatically or immediately make your life or your relationship with her better, because it's quite possible that you'd then have her on the phone discussing and analysying her counselling for hours, and any attempt from you to divert her or halt her would bring accusations that you don;t care or you are unhelpful: sometimes counselling makes people who are already self-obsessed even more so and gives them new language to manipulate the people around them with.

YOu might find counselling for yourself helpful in that it could give you some new coping strategies: you might find a book or two on the subject helpful (someone on here can probably recommend one) and there is of course always MN when you need to rant. Good luck.

talktotebees- what is CBT? sorry for being thick- and what does it involve? and should that be for me or her???

Don't be sad about it - it's a really positive thing and when you're a busy Mum, absolute heaven to be in a space where it's all about you for a change!

Bees is spot on about CBT, I feel that you could really benefit from it too - to be honest most people could .

Your Mum may well know exactly why she is depressed and not want to tackle it as it could open a can of worms which she is afraid of. I was like that for a long time.....

explanation

The thing is, if you get counselling yourself, you might be able to use that as a way to perhaps open your mother's eyes about the process.

Really, though, there's no point in 'getting' someone else to get counselling. If they're not open to it and ready for it, it won't do a thing.

CBT = Cognitive Behavioural Therapy. I was thinking of it for your mum really. I found this book particularly good but you should be able to google loads of info on it. Mind also help carers/relatives.

I do think you need to re-evaluate the level of support you give your mum and offer it on the basis of what you are able to give rather than what she needs. A counsellor may be able to help you decide your boundaries with your mum. Actually you seem to be coping remarkably well. When you are dealing with someone who is chronically depressed it is all to easy to succumb to depression yourself.

Everyone also though I was strong - they were very very wrong. And you do not have to be. Your mum is very difficult to deal with. You are entitled to be angry, frustrated, despondent and sad.

thanks for the links.

is her depression an actual illness then? like she cant help it? its hard to be sympathetic i'm afraid.

i thought i would come on here and everyone wouldt hink i was being unreasonable and that lots of people are like it ie have similar relationships with thier parents/loved ones. it seems i was wrong. which is great as i have had some brilliant advice and support from you all but in a way in which i cant explained i am starting to feel really down about it all now. i feel i have enough on my plate (2 sons with ASD) without coping with another 'illness'. i guess i am forever hoping she will snap out of it. but shes 68 now and it hasnt happened so far

I would say you need some advice whether counselling or training on how to deal with your Mum & deflect the negativity she dumps on you bringing you down.

Some assertiveness training for example, it is her problem.You have to learn not to get down about it, & if she can't see that it doesn't make you a bad person for being unwilling to take it all on board with/for her.

Hope that makes sense it's so draining for you & she is still your mum after all so you do love her even if she drives you nuts!

As I'm one of 4 children I sympathise as I always have a sibling to share the moaning & support with, as an only child you get the lot dumped on you.

depression can be a physical illness. It is very real. some people have depressive personality types too, which I think makes them more probne to view the world in a depressed way.

It's not her fault. She may well be doing her very best to cope.

But it's not your fault either, and dealing with a reluctant to help themself depressed person is Extremely Wearing!

Like ( sorry for analogy) someone with diabetes who insists that she is fine to eat sugar, then moans about feeling giddy. And if you dare to say "well, you've just eaten half a pound of sherbet lemons when you know what they will do", she'll hang up on you and sulk because you're not sympathetic enough.

If she has been like this for a long time then she may be clinically depressed, which she can't help at all.

There are different types of depression which have different symptoms and causes;
? The ?Uni-polar depressions include Clinical depression, Reactive depression and Post-natal depression.
? Clinical depression is a hormone or chemical imbalance in the brain where the neurotransmitters in the brain are not functioning properly, this can be a genetic imbalance and very often runs in families;
? Reactive depression is where the depression can be attributed to an event within life, for instance as a result of bereavement, divorce, illness;
? Post-natal depression affects many women after having a baby and can occur any time between two weeks and two years after the baby?s birth;
? Bi-polar or ?Manic? depression has no cure at present and treatment will be ongoing for the rest of the sufferer?s life. Manic depressives will experience extreme highs and lows and be either in one state or another with little balance. Unfortunately the medication used to control this often result in the depressive believing that they are cured and coming off the medication, sometimes resulting in an extreme reaction which can end up in violent or suicidal tendencies.

Mental/psychological problems are hard to have sympathy about, but really, would anyone choose to be the way your mother is? She's not enjoying it, that's for sure.

I do empathise, though, my mother wasn't much like yours, but she was not at all together, and wasn't a very good mum.

is depression an illness? Depressed people do have low levels of certain neuro-transmitters but even psychologists can't agree whether that is the cause of depression or one of it's symptoms.

as to whether she can help it? No she can't sort of, but she could seek help for it and she isn't. She has diabetes but she takes medication for it. If she didn't and kept having hypos you'd begin to lose sympathy. The same applies to the depression. Except when you are depressed, it can be very very difficult to seek help because of fear of failure, fear of rejection, fear of change. It's hard to explain really. But if she is finding decisions about curtains and wedding outfits overwhelming then seeking help for her problem will fill her with absolute dread.

Sorry, I'm not explaining myself very well but the baby has gone and woken up and is distracting me.

Belcantavinissima - your mother sounds in many ways rather like my mother-out-of-law. My MOL does have a therapist, but it doesn't help much.

However, my partner has been greatly helped by taking a step back from his relationship with his mother/parents.

I think you could probably benefit from some counselling to help you deal with your mother. It really helped my partner.

Hi Belcantavinissima, my relationship with my mother sounds very similar to yours.

I so wish she would get counselling but she won't let anybody help her in any way and refuses to admit there is a problem.

I feel so angry with her because I feel that if she really loved us she would make more of an effort or at least let us help her.

I would pay for her to see a counsellor if I could but I do agree with the other posters that she needs to want it.

PS: I agree with Anna that you need to try & distance yourself emotionally (although I find it very hard).

Just going to echo other people here. She has had 68 years to do something different, to change. She hasn't.

So if she won't change (I say won't because she CAN if she wanted to) you are unhappy as things are. So you have the option to change. Therapy helps you change the way you deal with people. ie instead of feeling so responsible for your mothers happiness, it will teach you that you are NOT responsible for it. The only person who is responsible for your mothers happiness is HER. She is the only one to decide how she feels, how to react to lifes problems (like curtains) to get herself out of the house and to meet new people and make friends and to seek therapy if she really wanted to make a go of it all.

Yes what she is doing is sufforcating you, you do have a life apart from her to lead and as you say 3 dc, 2 with ASD. This is not saying you have mental problems, therapy isn't always about that, I go to therapy (psychoanaysist) to change the way I react to lifes problems, and how I reacted to my family. Therapy will support you, in a way no one else can...yes you pay a therapist for it! But most have had issues in their life themselves and just want to help people with theirs. They can be there when your friends cannot. And they offer an unbiased view, not agree and nod their head, they just are non judgemental of you and your family. And you can say ANYTHING to them and they won't bat an eyelid...even if you say you are angry at your mum...some friends may say 'give her a break' or 'oh she is annoying!'...but a therapist won't...they will acknowledge you are angry and go with it...and ask you why you are.

Have I persuaded you yet?

yes you all have really.hope ican afford it though. how much might it be roughly? it seems extravagant somehow, kind of a bit self-indulgent

belcantavinissma - try asking your GP first of all. In some areas there is some really good free NHS counselling (I had ten sessions and they were excellent, much better than all the rubbish I had paid for previously).

£34 for 50 min.

Not self indulgent. Necessary for your health.

You can very often get some free counselling from postgrad students if you have a university which offers the course.

In order to become qualified as a counsellor, part of the deal is that you give a set amount of hours to fulfill the course criteria. With the post-grad or MA students they are already fully qualified to practise but need to further their experience. Depending on where in the country you are, it's worth a few phone calls to see if it's feasible.

It can be a lot less than £34 as well. Some counsellors charge as little as £18 for 50 minutes.

Find a counsellor on this website - I would highly recommend you go through the BACP as all counsellors accredited with them need to work ethically and safely and be undergoing ongoing supervision and further development - unfortunately there are a few out there who give the rest a bad name.....

thanks wisteria, thats a very helpful link- sadly though in my neck of the woods they all seem to be £40 up to £75 per session . i think it may be worth it though even if i cant go as often as im ay like.

my dad came over earlier, he looks so down at heel, i feel really sorry for him, she is always putting him down everytime he says wnything to her. i mean even i have noticed and its embarassing. and she wonders why he doesnt talk to her. poor blokes probably terrified he's going to say the wrong thing. all the while shes droning on to me about him losing his mind and being forgetful. poor poor dad .

I'm surprised there's nothing cheaper down there to be honest. Which part of Devon are you in? I have a friend there (my Dad lives there too) who may know of someone a bit more reasonable.

I would seriously consider getting a referral from a GP then or contacting some local colleges to see if they can help you - there are always ways around it.

i am in exeter. actually my friend is training to be a cousellor (she is in her final yr) but dont want to go and see her (mind you she is very big on doling out advice and telling people what to do lol!) but she might know of someone too i guess.

Bel - anyone who knows you outside of the counselling room can't take you as a client anyway!

BTW a good counsellor will never give advice or tell people what to do - it's against the whole ethos and principle.

CB therapists may give homework (often just keeping a record of feelings and actions) but not without it being a joint decision. The closest they'd come to advice giving would be along the lines of 'what do you feel would happen if you did this?' as a suggestion sort of a thing IYSWIM.