Words and actions don't match

[ErstwhileGoth]

I know the advice in here is always to look at the actions not the words and I believe this is very good advice when someone is promising you everything but delivering nothing or saying they love you but behaving in ways that don't demonstrate love.
Talk is cheap and it's easy to say, "I love you," or "I care about you," and the behave in ways that show contempt or a lack of thought. The confusion and hope is what keeps people in unsatisfactory and damaging relationships for years.

But what about when it s the other way round?

What about when there are no words or love or affection but their actions suggest otherwise?

Yes, I agree. "I'd have done it for anyone" is just a polite phrase.

He sounds nice OP. And maybe he’s just as mystified as you are about where things are at between you. There’s lots of wonderful advice and wisdom on this thread. When you feel brave enough, just tell him everything you’ve told us and see what happens next. I’d forget the letter idea and just talk to him, but it doesn’t sound like there’s any rush.

And I’m very sorry about your evil mum. You sound really thoughtful and like you’re a great mum yourself.

@ravenmum

that speaks of him and his character; his kindness, his loyalty, his trustworthiness etc not his feelings regarding me A doubt that creeps in on me sometimes, OP, is that my bf is with me out of pity/kindness. As you know, it's a self-doubt - even if the suspicion is correct and he is plotting to kill me with kindness, it's still not him that I am doubting really. And if my suspicion is wrong and he's being nice to me because he likes me and enjoys being with me, then my self-doubt is doing him an injustice.

If someone said to your daughter that she wasn't pretty or interesting enough to be loved, and it made her sad and scared to get in a relationship, what would you say to her?

Yes, rather makes a lot of sense. I suppose partner the problem I'm having is rather I can't even say 'boyfriend' or that he's 'with me'. I don't have the language to even refer to him. Boyfriend? Friend? Ex boyfriend? Man I'm seeing? I was requited to refer to him to someone the other day amd called him 'thean I'm involved with'. That's what I mean by not being able to contextualise it. I don't even have the words to use.

But yes you're very right in that it's not really him I'm doubting and is my self doubt doing him an injustice. And if I am right but can't see it clearly. What does that say about me too.

I have no idea what I'd say to my daughter if someone said that to her. I can't imagine anyone saying it to her because it simply wouldn't be true.

@ravenmum

(Can just imagine him saying "I'd have done it for anyone" as a polite phrase meaning "Don't feel uncomfortable at the effort I went to, or feel obliged to me" and you translating it into "I'd literally go to this effort for any random passer-by, you are not special" - without him having a clue what was going on! I know what you mean about these behaviours being easy to analyse in theory, but much harder in real time/real life.)

Yes, when he'd explained it I think that was what he meant. It's not how I understood it though and it wasn't until the conversation 8 or 9 months later that I understood. I'd just taken it literally.

@reader12

He sounds nice OP. And maybe he’s just as mystified as you are about where things are at between you. There’s lots of wonderful advice and wisdom on this thread. When you feel brave enough, just tell him everything you’ve told us and see what happens next. I’d forget the letter idea and just talk to him, but it doesn’t sound like there’s any rush.

No, there's no rush. But he's got a few weekends away coming up and it feels like boundaries meed to he established first. Or rather I'd feel happier if boundaries were established.

Is he looking forward to a few weekends away and the possibilities these might bring... or is he going to miss while he's away? That sort of thing.

@reader12

And I’m very sorry about your evil mum. You sound really thoughtful and like you’re a great mum yourself.

Thank you. I've tried.

@reader12

And I’m very sorry about your evil mum. You sound really thoughtful and like you’re a great mum yourself.

Thank you. I've tried.

I don't have the language to even refer to him. Boyfriend? Friend? Ex boyfriend? Man I'm seeing?
I had this at first with my bf as neither of us was looking for anything serious - how about "inamorato"?

Yes, even if you are right and he's not sincere, you are only right because a stopped clock is right once a day. Not because it's true that you're unloveable.

Ha, inamorato. I like that!

Knowing him as I do, if this were anyone else, I'd be saying he's playing the long game. He likes you and cares about you a lot but he sees your scars and is proving himself to you. Yes he slips up, no he's not perfect and these are the times you doubt him and doubt yourself. He's not telling you he cares, he's showing you.

He involves you in his life and he wants to he involved in yours. He cares about the people who are important to you and shows an interest in them.

He gives up his time to support you.

And much more.

But a) I could be talking bollocks. Do men even bother showing they care and proving themselves? And b) it's me were talking about. Not a fictional anyone else.

"If someone said to your daughter that she wasn't pretty or interesting enough to be loved, and it made her sad and scared to get in a relationship, what would you say to her?"

I have no idea what I'd say to my daughter if someone said that to her. I can't imagine anyone saying it to her because it simply wouldn't be true.

It simply wasn't true when someone said it to you. It was only because you were so young and vulnerable, and it was said by your mother, that you believed it and internalised it. Here you are, feeling the impact of that lie so many years later.

Congratulations on breaking the pattern and bringing up your own DD so differently.

There is some work for you to do on the unloved child which you used to be. I so hope that you find what you need to do that.

How much of your history is your inamorato aware of? Does he know any of your dilemma about never having felt loved?

It might be difficult for him to hear that you doubt his motivation for some of his actions.

Everyone is different but ... I tend towards showing love to DH rather than saying it.

The things you describe that he does are exactly the things I would do and would want him to know that's love. It would feel quite hurtful if you misunderstood that, explaining it away by saying he is just a decent person or something like that.

The only way to learn these differences is to talk to each other about what things feel like to you. Taking responsibility for your feeling and explaining them to each other.

It's taken a while for DH and I to do this, in order to understand how we each show love. The worst disagreements we have ever had have been when we misunderstand each other's motives but once we worked through it, it meant that we understand each other much better.

I dearly hope you get to have these conversations.

I went out with someone who wouldn’t say anything romantic or affectionate, and at first it didn’t bother me. However after a year or so, I realised that I constantly felt anxious, wondering how he felt, and in the end it didn’t really matter how he felt, what mattered was that going out with him made me feel insecure. So I had to finish it.

@FinallyHere

"If someone said to your daughter that she wasn't pretty or interesting enough to be loved, and it made her sad and scared to get in a relationship, what would you say to her?"

I have no idea what I'd say to my daughter if someone said that to her. I can't imagine anyone saying it to her because it simply wouldn't be true.

It simply wasn't true when someone said it to you. It was only because you were so young and vulnerable, and it was said by your mother, that you believed it and internalised it. Here you are, feeling the impact of that lie so many years later.

Congratulations on breaking the pattern and bringing up your own DD so differently.

There is some work for you to do on the unloved child which you used to be. I so hope that you find what you need to do that.

How much of your history is your inamorato aware of? Does he know any of your dilemma about never having felt loved?

It might be difficult for him to hear that you doubt his motivation for some of his actions.

Everyone is different but ... I tend towards showing love to DH rather than saying it.

The things you describe that he does are exactly the things I would do and would want him to know that's love. It would feel quite hurtful if you misunderstood that, explaining it away by saying he is just a decent person or something like that.

The only way to learn these differences is to talk to each other about what things feel like to you. Taking responsibility for your feeling and explaining them to each other.

It's taken a while for DH and I to do this, in order to understand how we each show love. The worst disagreements we have ever had have been when we misunderstand each other's motives but once we worked through it, it meant that we understand each other much better.

I dearly hope you get to have these conversations.

That's the difficult part. I've believed it my whole life. I worked on myself, had therapy, been open to it all and nothing has really changed.

He knows pretty much everything. He knows that I've never been loved, yes.

I don't know how to bring it up. I'm not very good at having the conversations myself tbh.

That's why I was planning on writing to him. I didn't really want a huge conversation with him.

It's ridiculous. We managed to have a lengthy chat about 2 friends of ours and their disastrous singleton love lives. But we can't talk about what's going on between us. And then I think maybe that's because there's nothing to talk about.

** I would encourage you to enquire whether there is more work for you to do on yourself, perhaps with a different therapist or with a new approach.

Did you notice that I asked about never having felt loved?

And you answered He knows that I've never been loved, yes.

This is only the opinion of a stranger on the internet, but I think this difference is pretty important. Can you see it? The difference between feeling loved and being loved ?

What would it feel like, if he loved you?

Is it possible that he loves you and you are not aware or not confident in yourself to accept that? We all need pretty strong self esteem to accept that we are lovable just as we are.

Talking to a partner is one way to get that feeling. If that is too scary, maybe a therapist could help get you started. All the best.

What would it feel like, if he loved you?

Honestly? I have absolutely no idea!

Is it possible that he loves you and you are not aware or not confident in yourself to accept that?

I mean, anything is possible...

But likely? I just can't see it myself. I really only wanted to tell him that I love him so that he knows. Not because I was expecting him to say it in return. I wanted it to be clear that that wasnt expected.

If he says that he loves you, you're not going to really believe it, is that correct? He could go down on one knee and propose, and you'd be getting more and more suspicious the more he declared? The doubts would still be there, at least?

I think it's great you want to say this to him, for his sake, but if you''re likely to doubt him anyway, might it just stir things up for you, however he responds? Or would you be able to continue seeing him, whatever scenario your brain came up with? It would be a shame if his answer made you doubt him even more.

If you enjoy his company and are going to doubt him whatever happens, could you accept the uncertainty and say "Well maybe I'm not the one true love of his life, maybe I am - but in any case this is really nice"?

Are you going to ask him if you're an item? That also seems important.

Are you dating my boyfriend???

I eventually dumped him after 18 months because I just didn’t think he was into me as a girlfriend. He’s a lovely kind man and is good to all his friends. I just felt that apart from the sex we were just good friends. I explained it all to him and he was really upset. We spent a few weeks apart and both missed one another. We agreed to try again and he told me how much I meant to him. He is still doesn’t always say I love you back to me but he does it often enough that I can live with it. He’s also made a few more romantic gestures. I’m not pushing as hard for romance either and trying to accept that his actions towards me are more than just friends.

Talk to him!

I think I'd find it very difficult to get to the end of my life never having once been loved. God I can feel the tears even just typing that. I don't know why it's so important to me. Maybe I want to prove my mum wrong still; maybe I just want to believe I mattered to somebody.

Would I believe him if he said it? I don't know. He'd be unlikely to say something like that if it weren't true but that's not really the point. I don't have any expectation that it is how he feels. I wouldn't expect him to say it so it's not really worth considering. All I really want from him is something to stop the to-ing and fro-ing in my head. I know he doesn't love me; but then he does all these things that make it look like he might; but he doesn't; but why would he x, y, z if he didn't?; it doesn't matter because he doesn't... I want him to stop the things that look like he might if I'm honest.

I'm sure it's very well intentioned and maybe he's trying to show me that I'm worthy of being cared for and considered but it's just going to hurt me more in the long run.

I think I'd find it very difficult to get to the end of my life never having once been loved. God I can feel the tears even just typing that. I don't know why it's so important to me.
Have you had therapy for this specific point?
I listen to a podcast by a German therapist who specialises in "the inner child" - very much sales patter for her books, but it still makes sense. I know what she'd say here - that it isn't (just) him you want to love you deep down. If you were her client, the therapist would speak to your inner child and say (sorry) "I know, sweetie. You want mummy to love you. It's not your fault she can't. Of course you're sad. There, there."

Yes, I have had therapy for it. It worked for a while but I wasn't able to sustain it. Sounds a bit pathetic and defeatist really.

I know i.said I didn't know why its so important but I suppose that not really true because I do know that it's the mother wound and there's no one who can love that better. He knows it's that too. In fact, it was he who said it and prompted to go for the last lot of therapy. I have been feeling a lot better recently but this weekend, when he was so lovely and supportive and it felt like we were closer, it just made me feel it all over again. I suppose because it'll some ways it's because I get glimpses of love but none of its real. Or enough.

God I can feel the tears even just typing that. I don't know why it's so important to me

I nearly cried reading this! It's important to everybody to be loved, OP. We're pack animals, social animals, at the end of the day. If we don't feel fully accepted (ie loved) we're in mortal danger of being picked off by a predator, you know, like a wounded deer.

There's nothing unusual in being loved being important to you; you'd be odd if it wasn't. It's a display of emotional health that you feel so strongly about it. Like if you hadn't eaten for a long time, a strong feeling of hunger would be healthy. You've got a craving to get what we all need. But that's good. Hungry people find food if they look in the right places...

I do know that it's the mother wound and there's no one who can love that better

There is one person who can.

Well, if you don't want him, I'll take him, as he sounds brilliant.
I suspect he'd quite like to be with you, though, OP.

TheFoundations

The last few therapists I've seen, I've described it as feeling as though I'm seeing them because I'm being ridiculous - like I'm having therapy because I want to win the lottery amd haven't yet. Except that I feel like I'd have more chance of winning the lottery (if I actually played it!)

I feel that slight hope on the rare occasions I buy a lottery ticket. Much like I'd feel slight fear if I stood under a tree in a thunderstorm. Both winning the lottery and being struck by lightning feel more possible than love.

I've described it as feeling as though I'm seeing them because I'm being ridiculous

It seems ridiculous to you because you've been raised to think that your emotions aren't important. The very second you step out of that mind set, and think 'I feel this and I respect my feelings so I'm going to do x, y or z' will be the second all of this changes. You are wrapped up in a great big spinning, reeling cloud of question marks that don't need to be there: if you feel that something is happening, then it is happening, for you. If you feel insecure, you feel insecure, and you have to find a way to respond to that, rather than just thinking 'Oh, I'm just being ridiculous.' If you feel unloved, you have to respond to that, not question its socks off.