DH rages

[ASpoolofBlueThread]

Looking for a bit of a handhold...

DH has quite a volatile temper. I'm confident he wouldn't physically hurt me or DS12, but he flies off into rages and they are quite scary.

He went out this morning to get DS cash for school trip. He came back and told me the cash machine was out of order, then suddenly got in a rage and stormed back down the hall and I had to move myself and DS quickly out of the way as I was a bit scared. It became clear he thought he'd left his cash card in the machine.

He then found the money in the kitchen and I (stupidly) asked how he'd got it if the cash machine was broken. He started yelling that it was cash back, so I just grabbed the money and packed lunch and backed out of the kitchen leaving him to yell.

I went to the front room and watched for DS12's ride. DH calmed down and came and watched with me. He put his hand on my back which I really didn't want him to do but didn't want to cause a row. I was quite terse and quiet. DS12 said to me "shall we just put this behind us" so I felt bad he'd been exposed to this incident and my poor handling of it.

DH sort of apologised, saying he was sorry for his poor behaviour but it wasn't directed at us. I explained it was scary behaviour. I've now driven to the local supermarket as I need more cash and am currently sat in the car typing this. I'd really love to be in the office today but you still have to book in advance. I have calls starting at 9am so I need to go home, but I just need some space.

For context, DH doesn't go off like this all the time, but it's not uncommon, usually when tired or hungry. I know it sounds like a storm in a teacup, but it is scary. Not sure what I'm looking for beyond a hand hold and maybe some gentle advice?

@ASpoolofBlueThread

I'm conflicted.

On the one hand, I read threads about abuse all the time on mumsnet. They always start with something bad and as people question things, they get worse and worse and worse. I'm genuinely not sure that is the case here. I'm pretty sure I've presented him at his worst. Surely you can be a shouty person without it being abusive?

On the other hand, I've been with DH since I was 19, and I'm now 40. That's almost my entire adulthood, so its difficult to know if I'm normalising poor behaviour.

My upbringing was ok, not perfect, but ok. I think DH's father had the same issues with rage (but worse). DH knows this is why he is like he is, and has worked hard over the years to try and move away from the rage. I actually think he's improved over the years too, which gives me hope that it isn't irretrievable. DH will be in DS's life whether I leave or not...

Just taking that last point irrespective of what you decide. It's absolutely not black and white that DH will be in DS's life. He's fast approaching (if no there already an expert can clarify) an age where contact can't be forced.

Yes, you can be a shouty person and not abusive but it all depends on when he's shouty, who to, and why? As asked earlier, ever heard him lose it at his boss or someone twice his size?

Of course he thinks you've made up. He's decided he's not in a mood anymore so you should just get over it. What's the pattern normally? When he does stuff like that do you normally just act as though nothings happened?

It sounds like you view this as normal as this is what your used to. Grabbing your DS and runnning out of the way of your angry DH isnt normal. You are scared for a reason, the fact you say he doesnt hit you doesnt make this any better. Abuse isnt just being beaten. You and your DS are tip toe round this man, your DS supports you and protects you against his father. This is not normal and I feel for your DS.

Spoke to him briefly.

In my work space
DH: are you still not talking to me?
Me: I'm not not talking to you
DH: did you see my texts?
Me: yes (thinks of something sensible to respond with and fails)
DH: (huffily) well I'll just leave you then.

I waited a few minutes and then followed him into his work space
Me: you've got to understand I'm still quite angry, you wouldn't act that way with your friends
DH: yes I would, anyway I don't want to talk about it, you missed your chance
Me: that's a bit controlling, you need to recognise it's not ok to behave like that. It's scary,
DH: why, what did you think I would do to you? None of it was directed at you
Me: errrrrr, can't say I really had time to think about it

Conversation ended. I've left the house for a walk and to clear my head (thankfully this afternoon's big meeting was cancelled).

Currently sat on park bench mulling things over. I think the lack of recognition of the inappropriate anger is probably as worrying as the anger itself.

I've read the book below (quick reader) and I'm still genuinely not convinced he's abusive.

I think he just gets angry a lot. The book explains this is possible. That's not to excuse the behaviour, just that it is separate. Not sure what my next move is, need to go home soon, maybe phone work's counselling service?

That's not true and you really aren't helping. I don't know what you are hoping to achieve - this isn't AIBU.

It is damaging for yourself son to be put into the position of peacemaker. You risk him doing this with friends and family partners in future and enduring unreasonable behaviour from others.

Your h clearly knows what he's doing if he's calming down before DS's lift arrives. He knows that people outside your household aren't going to tolerate his behaviour and would be considering going to SS to protect your son who has no choice but to live with a man like that.

Your post is littered with references to you being scared, minimizing his behaviour and changing your behaviour as to not set him off. You might not be ready to admit it but he's abusive.

People fight and may shout in a relationship but those doing it healthily can both get what they are thinking off their chest. It sounds like you are scared to say what you think and are Aso scared of what he's thinking.

I understand that you can't see what an outsider would be able to see after 20 years of FOG but

I've read the book below (quick reader) and I'm still genuinely not convinced he's abusive. I think he just gets angry a lot. The book explains this is possible. That's not to excuse the behaviour, just that it is separate

At the risk of sounding like a stuck record and I know you briefly mentioned it to him - does he get angry a lot at a lot of different people including colleagues, bosses, other family members and random people who are bigger than him?

If, as you say, he gets angry a lot then surely you'll be aware of examples of the above or is it a huge coincidence he just gets angry loads but it happens to be in his own home?

I could not live like that.
My first husband was very volatile and still is at times with the kids. It's not healthy.
New husband is the opposite-it's so nice to be in a calm home.
Your poor son {sad}

Can I make a suggestion? However YOU view this, HE is minimising.

1. He doesn't get to tell you how to feel, how quickly you should recover, how scared you should be.

1. You don't know how it's affecting your DS. Take him somewhere away from your husband and ask him. 'Are you ok about your dad getting angry this morning? How does it make you feel?'. Listen to what he says.

1. Write to your husband. Tell him that when he behaves like that, it is scary and intimidating. That he can't decide whether you should be scared. That he doesn't do that around other people. That he wouldn't like it if a bigger bloke behaved like that around him. That it isn't acceptable. That he should behave better to you and your DS, not worse.

Give him the letter and go out for an hour or two- but seriously consider whether it's safe to be around him when he's read it.

Either he is an abusive arsehole and this will still be your fault, or he will be horrified and seek treatment. Then you will know what to do.

You need to tell him that it's affecting your son not just you.

What is your definition of abuse?.

Read the book at length, do not just skim read it. It deserves more consideration.

Your H gets angry at all sorts of inanimate objects that do not bend to his will, his reactions are disproportionate. He takes out all that on you and in turn your son. He is angry because he is abusive, not just because he is angry. You've also described his own father no less as being similar.

BTW is he much older than you?. I ask as you met him when you were 19 years of age.

Oh please leave the op alone some of you!!!
It can take a long time to realise how horrendous things are when you are living with this type of person and the impact that it is having upon your children. Telling the op that she is effectively being a bad parent by remaining is of no use at all. Its only in films and books that a woman can leave immediately to escape this type of situation.

Op I know recommending books is a bit meh but I would really recommend reading Lundy Bancroft -Why does he do that ? It was a life changer for me and helped me learn more and build up the strength to act on it.

DH: why, what did you think I would do to you? None of it was directed at you

Your response

It doesn't matter. You were raging and angry. I had to move out of your way. It scares me and ds. You could have gone outside or elsewhere. You chose to show me and ds how angry you were. So you wanted to show us,what big scary angry man you are so we don't cross you. You are using your anger as control.

My DF had lots of rages when we were growing up and he did smack us.
Still now he's nearing 80 years old & he still rages & I'm never 100% certain he won't lash out again.
The older he gets the less he's out of the house and it makes my DM's life a misery a lot of the time, just as she's meant to be enjoying her retirement and nearing the end of her life too.
It shouldn't have to be like that. Why do you think your H would change if he won't even acknowledge the problem?

I left someone like this in November last year. It’s been incredibly difficult as a single parent under lockdown but the kids (9 and 6) are so different it’s been worth it. Younger one especially has transformed his behaviour at school and home, even though I would always have said he was ok before.

I was a bit unsure about this OP, until he told you 'you've missed your chance'. He really does think he's the boss! I would have gone ballistic if DH said that to me.....but you didn't.

I bow to the knowledge of others on here, who were so much quicker than I was to call it abuse.

"You've missed your chance"?
I'm frankly speechless

@armanted

I was a bit unsure about this OP, until he told you 'you've missed your chance'. He really does think he's the boss! I would have gone ballistic if DH said that to me.....but you didn't.

I bow to the knowledge of others on here, who were so much quicker than I was to call it abuse.

Yup 100%

When something is scary, when you move quickly out of someone's way in your own home, and when you bite your tongue because you fear the reaction if you were to speak up, and this happens more than once, you are not talking about something insignificant.

I grew up with two volatile parents and every day was a living nightmare-no true peace or tranquility in our home-Mom was angry with Dad and vice versa so they were irritable with us children and would overreact-like living in a war zone paved with land mines. It gave us anxiety and stress when we should've been happy and content to be children, playing snd growing and learning, free to express ourselves and secure in our home. That's what your son deserves. I've tried my best to break that cycle in my own home (not a perfect parent at all) but I know my son has experienced a far more peaceful life than I ever wished for as a child

@ASpoolofBlueThread

No, he doesn't do it with anyone else. I know it sounds like excuses, but I think he is masking with other people if that makes sense. I think he'd be horrified if he knew what impact his behaviour has.

Still not convinced it's abuse. How can I tell?

I don't think it would come out as abuse on the freedom test or anything like that...

But will take the comments about impact on DS seriously. DS is very protective of me, which I had taken as a personality trait, but now I'm worried is symptomatic.

We own our home, we both work, I have my own car and access to our finances. If I wanted to leave, I could. I'm not trapped.

FFS, he’s not “masking” with other people. He’s choosing not to behave that way because he knows people wouldn’t put up with it. He’s a bully and a coward.

I feel so sorry for your poor son. You have a choice: keep excusing his behaviour and subjecting your child to it, or leave and let your son grow up without fear. This is not a difficult decision.

Your DH needs to get help, otherwise you need out. I would tell him he needs to find a therapist for controlling his anger. If he comes up with with excuses, you tell him that he is invalidating your feelings and you drop the ultimatum that next time you will leave.

If he doesn't seek help and goes off again, follow through.

You are a good parent. Don't let anyone think you're not

If you were a single and met him, and he reacted like this in front of you, would you co to it to develop a relationship with him or would you run a mile in the opposite direction?

Sometimes your history together clouds the issue too much. All of the shared past stops you from seeing the behaviour as it really is.

He reacts so aggressively to situations that you react with fear, that's why you distance yourself from him. You are slowly coming down from your fear response but an element of it is still there and your natural reaction is to avoid whatever it is that made you fearful. That is a GOOD instinct.

But here's the thing.

You've TOLD him that his anger is very scary and he thinks that because he wasn't yelling at YOU that you shouldn't mind. But you've told him you DO mind, and he tells you you are WRONG to mind. That your complaint is UNreasonable. That YOU are the one being unreasonable.

My ex flew into rages and we had the exact same argument. He said "but I'm not yelling at YOU" as if that made it alright. I told him how scary his rages were to me, and how he must be ten times scarier to our children.

I really hope you stop lying to yourself someday. There is nothing normal about your marriage, and it is clear you are terrified of your husband.

Still not convinced it's abuse. How can I tell?

Read what you've written. It's obvious.

You cannot see this situation clearly as you've been in it your whole adult life, but my father was like your DH and it it affected all of us massively.