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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DH rages

106 replies

ASpoolofBlueThread · 20/07/2021 08:28

Looking for a bit of a handhold...

DH has quite a volatile temper. I'm confident he wouldn't physically hurt me or DS12, but he flies off into rages and they are quite scary.

He went out this morning to get DS cash for school trip. He came back and told me the cash machine was out of order, then suddenly got in a rage and stormed back down the hall and I had to move myself and DS quickly out of the way as I was a bit scared. It became clear he thought he'd left his cash card in the machine.

He then found the money in the kitchen and I (stupidly) asked how he'd got it if the cash machine was broken. He started yelling that it was cash back, so I just grabbed the money and packed lunch and backed out of the kitchen leaving him to yell.

I went to the front room and watched for DS12's ride. DH calmed down and came and watched with me. He put his hand on my back which I really didn't want him to do but didn't want to cause a row. I was quite terse and quiet. DS12 said to me "shall we just put this behind us" so I felt bad he'd been exposed to this incident and my poor handling of it.

DH sort of apologised, saying he was sorry for his poor behaviour but it wasn't directed at us. I explained it was scary behaviour. I've now driven to the local supermarket as I need more cash and am currently sat in the car typing this. I'd really love to be in the office today but you still have to book in advance. I have calls starting at 9am so I need to go home, but I just need some space.

For context, DH doesn't go off like this all the time, but it's not uncommon, usually when tired or hungry. I know it sounds like a storm in a teacup, but it is scary. Not sure what I'm looking for beyond a hand hold and maybe some gentle advice?

OP posts:
Tossblanket · 20/07/2021 10:47

He needs to sort it out.

It's still abusive as this sort of behaviour causes everyone else around to walk on eggshells, or try to manage situations that might cause an explosion.

He's also setting a shit example to his son.

worktrip · 20/07/2021 11:58

He needs to sort his problem out. It does depend on how often he does this, does he make it personal to you, or just generally rant about the actual issue and whether he accepts responsibility for his anger and the affect it has on you and DS.

Depending on his answers and your response, tell him honestly you are considering the future of the marriage.

ASpoolofBlueThread · 20/07/2021 12:11

No, he doesn't do it with anyone else. I know it sounds like excuses, but I think he is masking with other people if that makes sense. I think he'd be horrified if he knew what impact his behaviour has.

Still not convinced it's abuse. How can I tell?

I don't think it would come out as abuse on the freedom test or anything like that...

But will take the comments about impact on DS seriously. DS is very protective of me, which I had taken as a personality trait, but now I'm worried is symptomatic.

We own our home, we both work, I have my own car and access to our finances. If I wanted to leave, I could. I'm not trapped.

OP posts:
ASpoolofBlueThread · 20/07/2021 12:12

I also suspect by the the texts he's sent he thinks we've made up Confused

OP posts:
Arrivederla · 20/07/2021 12:19

I think you need to let him know straight away that you haven't made up and that his behaviour is not acceptable.

everyleafy · 20/07/2021 12:32

Your husband's behaviour could be setting up your son for a lifetime of mental health problems and also problems with his relationships. He probably feels hypervigilant becuase he never knows when he's going to kick off. It makes me feel anxious just reading about how you probably have to walk on eggshells around him.

frazzledasarock · 20/07/2021 12:34

Surely if he didn't want to be like this he would be seeking help himself.

He would acknowledge how frightening it is for you and your child.

It's abusive if it's causing you harm and making you walk on eggshells. He's using it as a method to control you.

If it wasn't abusive and out of his control he'd do it to everyone , he'd acknowledge it's unacceptable and he'd be seeking help for it.

It scares you, it scares your child, you are walking on eggshells, it's abuse. It will slowly ramp up to a shove and push here and there and then it'll be 'proper' abuse.
I bet the 'anger issues' started slowly too, and you wouldn't ever have imagined him rampaging around because he was pissed off at someone/thing.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 20/07/2021 12:35

ASpoolofBlueThread

re your comments in quote marks:-

"No, he doesn't do it with anyone else. I know it sounds like excuses, but I think he is masking with other people if that makes sense. I think he'd be horrified if he knew what impact his behaviour has".

Re your last sentence you think that perhaps because you are yourself nice, do not want to rock the boat and want to see the good in him. I wrote earlier that image is all important to abusers and he really does want to come across as plausible to those in the outside world. He probably is all sweetness and light to outsiders and work colleagues. Many abusers are indeed plausible to those in the outside world. But you know what he is like behind closed doors. Your son does too.

No he would not be horrified at causing you such mental anguish. He does this because he can and actively enjoys having such power and control over you and in turn his son. He cares for neither of you and sees you both as possessions for he to do with as he sees fit. Abuse is about power and control and he wants absolute here.

"Still not convinced it's abuse. How can I tell?
I don't think it would come out as abuse on the freedom test or anything like that..."

Why not?. What is your definition of abuse?. Abuse is not just physical in nature.

Why not consider contacting Womens Aid if you are unsure?. What you're also referring to is called the Freedom Programme. The Freedom Programme examines the roles played by attitudes and beliefs on the actions of abusive men and the responses of victims and survivors. The aim is to help them to make sense of and understand what has happened to them, instead of the whole experience just feeling like a horrible mess. The Freedom Programme also describes in detail how children are affected by being exposed to this kind of abuse and very importantly how their lives are improved when the abuse is removed.

Would you treat another person, let alone someone you purport to love, like he treats you and your son?. No you would not. The only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is none. That is correct, none. Your H crossed that line a long time ago.

"But will take the comments about impact on DS seriously. DS is very protective of me, which I had taken as a personality trait, but now I'm worried is symptomatic"

What is more important to you; remaining married to your H or your son?. You should indeed be worried about your son because he is being harmed here by remaining in such a household at all. You live in fear of your H as well and your son is trying so desperately to protect you from his dad. He is being traumatised by what is happening within these four walls. Your boy deserves a life free from abuse at the hands of his abusive dad too. He is learning about relationships here from you both; what are you teaching him?. He's learning from you that abuse should be tolerated and that you cannot protect him from same and not just because you are all under the same roof. It is absolutely no legacy to be leaving your son.

"We own our home, we both work, I have my own car and access to our finances. If I wanted to leave, I could. I'm not trapped".

Make a better life for yourself and your son without his dad in it day to day. You are in a good position to do this. You have a choice re this man, your son does not. Time and again on here and online you read about now adult children not wanting to have much if anything to do with their parents because of abuse directed at one parent by the other and therefore them within the home. They honestly felt or went onto realise that their mother or father put their relationship with their abusive man or woman before them. Staying for the sake of the children really does them no favours. Do not let that fate befall you.

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up? Did you see similar too.

FlowerArranger · 20/07/2021 12:38

Still not convinced it's abuse. How can I tell?

Try reading Lundy Banctoft's book, Why does he do that. PDF free to download online.

Farwest · 20/07/2021 12:39

Well, your dh is abusive, you are in denial and your son has developed some worrying coping mechanisms that he'll spend the rest of his life untangling.

I'd be more gentle, because you can't fix your dh and it shouldn't be down to you to 'handle' his rage better and his abuse is not your fault...but you have a son to think about. You need to shift yourself out of that fog of denial pretty quickly.

Embracelife · 20/07/2021 12:42

You cannot guarantee

DH has quite a volatile temper. I'm confident he wouldn't physically hurt me or DS12, but he flies off into rages and they are quite scary.

So next time he throws an object snd ds gets in the way.
He goes to pu ch wall Nd ds head gets in the way
He is danger to you

Take ds,and leave

Fountainsoftea · 20/07/2021 12:52

How old is he? Dh turned into a miserable twat a few years ago. We nearly split up. Turns out he was pre diabetic, turning into full blown type 2 after a joust with covid. He's not overweight, so didn't think of diabetes. I only made him go to the Dr cos he kept falling asleep.

ASpoolofBlueThread · 20/07/2021 12:59

I'm conflicted.

On the one hand, I read threads about abuse all the time on mumsnet. They always start with something bad and as people question things, they get worse and worse and worse. I'm genuinely not sure that is the case here. I'm pretty sure I've presented him at his worst. Surely you can be a shouty person without it being abusive?

On the other hand, I've been with DH since I was 19, and I'm now 40. That's almost my entire adulthood, so its difficult to know if I'm normalising poor behaviour.

My upbringing was ok, not perfect, but ok. I think DH's father had the same issues with rage (but worse). DH knows this is why he is like he is, and has worked hard over the years to try and move away from the rage. I actually think he's improved over the years too, which gives me hope that it isn't irretrievable. DH will be in DS's life whether I leave or not...

OP posts:
youvegottenminuteslynn · 20/07/2021 13:48

You say you're confident it wouldn't escalate to anything physical but you said this in your OP which makes me think you're in denial / can't recognise abuse or both.

He came back and told me the cash machine was out of order, then suddenly got in a rage and stormed back down the hall and I had to move myself and DS quickly out of the way as I was a bit scared.

You had to move out of his way physically because you were frightened. That's so, so far from normal OP.

Your son is learning such damaging lessons.

You say your husband has worked hard over the years to control his rage and that it's improved. So how bad did it used to be? And what hard work has he actually done? I don't mean just 'trying harder' I mean actual, serious work on himself?

FFSFFSFFS · 20/07/2021 13:50

if I'm normalising poor behaviour

you really really are.

And your poor son is suffering terribly. But you don't seem too concerned about that.

Polkadots2021 · 20/07/2021 13:54

@ASpoolofBlueThread

Looking for a bit of a handhold...

DH has quite a volatile temper. I'm confident he wouldn't physically hurt me or DS12, but he flies off into rages and they are quite scary.

He went out this morning to get DS cash for school trip. He came back and told me the cash machine was out of order, then suddenly got in a rage and stormed back down the hall and I had to move myself and DS quickly out of the way as I was a bit scared. It became clear he thought he'd left his cash card in the machine.

He then found the money in the kitchen and I (stupidly) asked how he'd got it if the cash machine was broken. He started yelling that it was cash back, so I just grabbed the money and packed lunch and backed out of the kitchen leaving him to yell.

I went to the front room and watched for DS12's ride. DH calmed down and came and watched with me. He put his hand on my back which I really didn't want him to do but didn't want to cause a row. I was quite terse and quiet. DS12 said to me "shall we just put this behind us" so I felt bad he'd been exposed to this incident and my poor handling of it.

DH sort of apologised, saying he was sorry for his poor behaviour but it wasn't directed at us. I explained it was scary behaviour. I've now driven to the local supermarket as I need more cash and am currently sat in the car typing this. I'd really love to be in the office today but you still have to book in advance. I have calls starting at 9am so I need to go home, but I just need some space.

For context, DH doesn't go off like this all the time, but it's not uncommon, usually when tired or hungry. I know it sounds like a storm in a teacup, but it is scary. Not sure what I'm looking for beyond a hand hold and maybe some gentle advice?

DH12 saying that is sad to me. He's obviously practiced at being a peacemaker to pacify a parent with an anger issue. It's a horrible way for your kids to grow up, always having to keep quiet and say the right thing, be the diplomat, etc.
AttilaTheMeerkat · 20/07/2021 13:55

"On the one hand, I read threads about abuse all the time on mumsnet. They always start with something bad and as people question things, they get worse and worse and worse. I'm genuinely not sure that is the case here. I'm pretty sure I've presented him at his worst. Surely you can be a shouty person without it being abusive?"

You do not generally read about good and emotionally healthy relationships on the Relationships board. People write about problems in their relationships just as you have done. Abuse like you describe is insidious in its onset and creeps up on people unawares.
It is the case here because the more you write about him, the worse he sounds. Your initial post painted him in a very poor light and it has not improved since. What are you like at your worst; I would put a fiver on it that when you are both tired and hungry you do not treat your son like his dad has done. Your H is more than just shouty as well; that is you minimising what he is doing to you both. He is terrorising you with the result being you walk on eggshells whilst your son tries to put it behind him. You as his mother are really storing up emotional problems for him regarding relationships as an adult if you stay with him for what are really your own reasons.

"On the other hand, I've been with DH since I was 19, and I'm now 40. That's almost my entire adulthood, so its difficult to know if I'm normalising poor behaviour".

Its not just poor behaviour from your H is it, that is you minimising the unacceptable. This is abusive behaviour from your H. You likely met this man when you were perhaps in a bad place yourself with poor boundaries or otherwise vulnerable. He targeted you when you were 19 and so had no real life experience behind you. Your boundaries in relationships likely remain problematic too; he has also seen to that.

"My upbringing was ok, not perfect, but ok. I think DH's father had the same issues with rage (but worse). DH knows this is why he is like he is, and has worked hard over the years to try and move away from the rage. I actually think he's improved over the years too, which gives me hope that it isn't irretrievable. DH will be in DS's life whether I leave or not..."

Your DH learnt how to abuse from his own abuser of a father; he has basically go onto replicate that in his relationship with you now in the role of his mother (a woman who he also hates). How has he worked hard over the years to not become like his dad; he simply has not done so. If you do not readily recognise your H as an abuser even now (and you have been doubtful) then I cannot see how you state he has improved over the years. As for your comment stating that your DH will be in your son's life whether you leave or not, that may not be necessarily the case. Surely it is far better to have your son in a non abusive environment with you for as long as possible during the week. If he is with his dad he is exposed to an abusive environment the entire week, there is no let up. You cannot protect yourself fully, let alone your son here from being abused by his dad.

Such abusive men often cannot be at all bothered with their child and can use the child also as a means of further "punishing" the mother for leaving him.

Polkadots2021 · 20/07/2021 13:58

Can I also just say, your kid is not in a position of power here, you are, you have a feeling of being an equal in some way to your DH with choices, but your kids has no power, equality or choices. Putting up with that anger and aggression with the understanding noone will protect you from it is awful.

Shehasadiamondinthesky · 20/07/2021 13:59

Aside from the comments that you should not tolerate this which is very true, it's not acceptable.
Often people who have suffered some kind of trauma and end up with PTSD, complex PTSD or acute stress fly into rages caused by acute anxiety triggered by small things reaching a peak.
It might be worth in a quiet moment mentioning this and how abnormal this behaviour is, how it's affecting the whole family and see if he'll agree to see his doctor for a referral.
It's all quite treatable with the right medication and therapy.
If he absolutely won't then you need to decide if you should leave this situation.

ASpoolofBlueThread · 20/07/2021 14:08

@FFSFFSFFS

if I'm normalising poor behaviour

you really really are.

And your poor son is suffering terribly. But you don't seem too concerned about that.

That's not true and you really aren't helping. I don't know what you are hoping to achieve - this isn't AIBU.
OP posts:
BillyWhozz · 20/07/2021 14:22

@sallievp

Does he do this to his boss? Colleagues? I would guess not. So he can control this. He sounds pathetic and you deserve a lot better.
This is always one of the most relative points in posts about angry men.

Who are his victims/targets when it comes to rage?

Embracelife · 20/07/2021 14:22

2q years...you hVe grown and now you have a choice to make.
See counsellor talk it out.
Take ds for walk
Chat about your favourite holidays..where us dad in that scenario? where he would live in future... Will he leave home for uni... his answers may tell you a lot about how he sees his role to protect you and how he views the situation

Don't ask directly t questions
But ask chat about your favourite family times your worst etc his plans for his future....

Embracelife · 20/07/2021 14:23

21 years
And yeh he controls it for others
He can stop if he wants but having you cowering is better right?

CrazyNeighbour · 20/07/2021 14:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.