to think telling a 31 year old virgin they aren't missing out on anything is ludicrous?

me4real · 08/07/2021 17:47

I am not complete!

Aww, of course you are @CareyCarey . Just becase you haven't done some things yet doesn't make you an incomplete person. We're not defined by what we have and haven't done yet. That's like, low self esteem and I can see why she thinks you need to no longer be thinking of yourself as enough in yourself before you get into a relationship, because if you think badly of yourself you're more likely to put up with being treated badly and could end up in some very sticky situations.

My self esteem is pretty woeful, but that is because I am so fucking lonely. I have hobbies, and platonic friends, I'm usually out and about (especially now life is coming back together) but I don't have someone to come home to at night, I don't have someone I can rely on, I don't have someone to make coffee for in the morning. I've been on holiday alone, I've been to weddings alone, I go to the beach and to museums, all alone.

You sound a bit depresed- you could see a GP/consultant about how you're feeling, or go back if you've been before.

If you go into a relationship from the position that you need one, you can end up royally fucked over as you're less likely to dump them if they're dodgy.

Having said all this, if how the therapist puts things doesn't resonate with you, swap and see another one. Even the NHS let you change which one you see.

category12 · 08/07/2021 17:47

What do you think stands in the way of you meeting someone?

Original poster

CareyCarey · 08/07/2021 17:51

I have been thinking of seeing the doctor for a while now. It's just so embarrassing to take up valuable time because I've never had a boyfriend.

I certainly don't feel like a complete adult. I haven't had the same experiences as all of my friends. I want that so badly.

My parents were quite strict and religious growing up. They did try to let me have nights out etc, but they would literally be sitting up waiting for me when I got in, so I never felt like I could get drunk enough to kiss anyone and then obviously nothing ever progressed. I just always assumed it would happen and it never did.

OP posts:

category12 · 08/07/2021 17:52

I think Daniel Sloss has a very funny (and thoughtful) take on being "completed" by relationships - check out his show 'Jigsaw' if you've got Netflix.

category12 · 08/07/2021 17:56

Are you actively dating? I don't think drunkenly grabbing someone on a night out is necessarily the best or only way of getting into a relationship . It doesn't seem that obvious to me why missing out on that sort of thing has prevented you from progressing romantically, tbh.

category12 · 08/07/2021 17:58

I know it's been a shit year or more for chances to meet people.

OnlyHerefortheBiscuits · 08/07/2021 17:58

First of all I'm sorry that you're feeling down about it. I'm not a 'smug coupled' type who is going to hit you with a load of 'you'll meet someone eventually rubbish' or 'my cousin's best friend's hamster's pet dog's sister was single for aaaages and then she met someone got married and had babies hurrah' type stories either. They are both crap anecdotes and totally meaningless. I say this because I know what it feels like to think yes, but those are OTHER people, those things happen to other people not me.

I get it.

I understand what it feels like - I've been utterly utterly single (not even holding hands with a bloke) since about March (ish) 2007. No dates, no kissing, no nothing. I'm 33 and have an otherwise full life, similar to you really.

Your therapist is talking rubbish. People meet people at all different emotional stages and you do not need to be a serene wonderful picture of secure self contentment in order to be a good candidate for a relationship. I know loads of friends who were not technically ready when they met their 'one' but hey ho there he was, so they had to sort themselves out and do the relationship thing at the same time.

I'm pretty content at being single, and am quite excited about a future of continues single-dom. And I say that with genuine sincerity.

One thing that did surprise me, is that if you do end up in conversations about it, people are often quite in awe of how I have handled myself in life, by myself. I have achieved a lot by myself without a partner by my side and people admire it. I did not realise people thought this.

It is entirely possible that you just don't realise how wonderful you are, that's all :-)

You've likely experienced great things and solo achievements that coupled folk never will or perhaps never could now. (because they haven't had the formative single years that you have.)

You may feel you are 'missing out' in some respects but I can assure you, you are winning in so many others xxxx

Original poster

CareyCarey · 08/07/2021 17:59

I can't bear to go back to the apps tbh. I was using them regularly before covid, but nothing ever worked. I got ghosted loads, was stood up, saw men on there that I knew were married. Nothing ever worked out. The most successful run of dates I had was last summer. We had 3 dates and then he just disappeared.

OP posts:

OnlyHerefortheBiscuits · 08/07/2021 17:59

Yes, another vote for Daniel Sloss here, too.

Both funny and brilliantly insightful (if a little offensive!) :-D

drpet49 · 08/07/2021 18:00

* Aww, of course you are @CareyCarey . Just becase you haven't done some things yet doesn't make you an incomplete person. We're not defined by what we have and haven't done yet.*

^I completely disagree with this

StillWeRise · 08/07/2021 18:01

hhmm, is your therapist actually saying you aren't missing out on anything?
or, are they saying to work on your self esteem before you look for a relationship?
because those are 2 very different things. It is indeed ludicrous to say you aren't missing out on anything, because good sex (especially but not necessarily) in a loving relationship is amazing and life enhancing.

However, as PPs have indicated if your goal is 'get a relationship, have sex' you are putting yourself in a very vulnerable position.

If you are depressed you deserve help for that and the reason for your depression is irrelevant. But it might be that your depression itself is making it hard for you to make new relationships.

Original poster

CareyCarey · 08/07/2021 18:01

OnlyHere you have made me all teary

OP posts:

Changechangychange · 08/07/2021 18:07

That seems to be pretty standard for OLD.

The reason your therapist is telling you to increase your self-esteem is so that entirely normal OLD experiences don’t send you into a spiral. And so once you do meet somebody, you are able to decide if they are right for you, instead of clinging to them as your one and only chance for happiness (when they might be either abusive, or just a poor match for you).

Original poster

CareyCarey · 08/07/2021 18:08

She keeps seeing that I must see myself as complete, and my life as complete, regardless of a relationship.

I have so many goals!
I want to go on a great date.
I want to have a consistent relationship.
I want to kiss someone properly.
I want to have sex.
I want to go on holiday with someone.
I want to be in a long term relationship.
I want to have kids.

OP posts:

ravenmum · 08/07/2021 18:09

I'd look for another therapist if you don't get on with this one. And until then maybe argue with the current one just as you are in your OP. She might rethink her method, or understand better what you mean, or explain what she means better.

You describe yourself as lonely and not having done things. But there's a difference between that and thinking that you're lonely because you're so crap that no-one wants to be with you. You describe yourself as a person who has friends and various interests, gets out and about and is confident enough to do things alone, so maybe you do see yourself as being a perfectly OK human being apart from being single?

OnlyHerefortheBiscuits · 08/07/2021 18:10

@CareyCarey

OnlyHere you have made me all teary

Ah - that'll be the truth making you teary!

In all seriousness though, long term single people are some of the brightest, most interesting, sparky people I know....because of those formative years. It really does create something amazing.
xxxxx

Cowbells · 08/07/2021 18:10

The loneliness you describe is horrible but it is loneliness. It doesn't mean you are not complete in yourself. It's a real Catch 22 but people who feel like they are not quite a whole person unless they are in a couple find it harder to attract a mate than people who are really happy and confident in their own skin. You can't just switch on confidence. But you can work on it, develop it in tiny, manageable ways. You can focus with genuine pleasure on other aspects of life to build your self esteem and all of these acts will make you more attractive to a good person who won't ghost you or pretend they're unmarried.

Maybe that is what your therapist means. I understand that you feel incomplete because you are so sick of doing everything alone - I used to feel like that too, when it seemed like everyone around me was happily settled. But I realise it wasn't true. My unhappiness and desperation were putting people off. When I focused on enjoying life and improving my own happiness, I became more attractive, funnily enough DH was similar - deeply lonely and quite bitter about it, then he decided one NYE to stop that attitude and just enjoy life. Three weeks later, we met and I thought he was great! He's often said he wonders if we would have got together if he hadn't been in that new frame of mind.

Original poster

CareyCarey · 08/07/2021 18:19

maybe you do see yourself as being a perfectly OK human being apart from being single?

I like myself, but I keep wondering if I'm missing something! I would say I'm generally optimistic, I'm super observant and always find something to amuse myself, I'm confident enough to go into a cafe or restaurant alone. It's not that I don't enjoy my life, because I generally do, but the loneliness is so insidious.

OP posts:

OldTinHat · 08/07/2021 18:20

You absolutely ARE complete OP. You are you. You are fabulous and gorgeous and wonderful. Love yourself because you are all you ever need.

toocold54 · 08/07/2021 18:23

Do you have any goals that don’t involve a relationship?
Honestly OP you need to become happy on your own before you can become happy with someone else else you will meet the wrong person.

I am 31 and have been single for a long time, never lived with anyone, never been on holiday with a bf etc due to being a single parent and my excuse is that I just don’t have the time/energy to be dating. If I was in your position I’d be out all of the time! Haha.
If I was you I’d get on ti OLD you will meet lots of idiots but each one will prepare you better for when you meet someone decent!

Original poster

CareyCarey · 08/07/2021 18:26

Love yourself because you are all you ever need.

I'm sorry, but this is the sort of thing she says and I just don't believe that. Maybe I won't have a life long relationship, but I need to be able to try.

Do you have any goals that don’t involve a relationship?
Yep! I want to buy a house with a garden, I am learning to speak my grandparents' language, after Covid I have different places I want to travel to.

If I was you I’d get on ti OLD you will meet lots of idiots but each one will prepare you better for when you meet someone decent!
I can't take the idiots any more. This was why I went to therapy, I was hoping it would somehow help. It's so soul destroying for nothing to ever lead towards something positive.

OP posts:

Sollahdf · 08/07/2021 18:30

@CareyCarey I hear you. In my opinion it’s bollocks that you feel complete without a partner, if that’s what you want. Of course you are a complete person and you can live a full life as a single person. BUT, if you want to be with someone and share a life with someone then obviously for you, anything less is an incomplete life. There’s nothing wrong with wanting or needing to share your life with someone to feel like your life is complete.

The only distinction I think is important to note, is that you as a person are no more or less worthy than the next person in a relationship. I think perhaps your therapist is trying to get that point across. You are still you, without a partner.

I understand why you feel shit. I get it. I’m in a very new relationship and I’m not sure how it will go, but I can relate completely to how you feel. It’s lonely, it’s sad and it makes you feel like you’re missing out. Anyone who says to enjoy going on holiday alone, having freedom etc, that’s all well and good maybe one or two years in. It can fast become utterly shit.

One thing someone said to me once, which I often think of, is that most people don’t end up alone. It’s possible but unlikely, if you’re willing to date. I would get back out there and give it another go. Again, I appreciate it’s not fun, but you might find someone sooner than you think.

category12 · 08/07/2021 18:35

I like myself, but I keep wondering if I'm missing something! I would say I'm generally optimistic, I'm super observant and always find something to amuse myself, I'm confident enough to go into a cafe or restaurant alone. It's not that I don't enjoy my life, because I generally do, but the loneliness is so insidious.

You sound pretty darn "complete" to me. Maybe you and the counsellor are getting hung up on language here. Maybe if you drop saying you're not complete - because you are - she will drop pushing that angle?

Start talking about more constructive ways forward. If online dating is a struggle, how can you build up your resilience? What other ways could you meet people? Do you have friends who could hook you up? How can you widen your social circle?

Do you meet men socially, do you meet them at work, do you have male friends? Does anyone flirt and how do you respond if they do?

EBearhug · 08/07/2021 18:43

I've spent a lot of my life single, and I've currently been single for about 9 years. There's a bloke at work who thinks I'm amazing, because I've been on holiday on my own, because he would never have the nerve to do that. From my perspective, if I don't go on holiday alone, I just don't go anywhere, it's nothing to do with bravery.

But I also think that doing everything yourself can mean you appear very self-sufficient and don't need anyone, which can put people off. I don't know how you change that. I don't think I want to change it - if a man is going to be with me, it will be because I want it, not I can't cope without him.

I also think that the last 18 months haven't helped at all with loneliness - limited househild bubbles, booking to go to the pub, loads of festivals and events and so on cancelled... seeing friends and colleagues on Zoom is good, but it's not as good as seeing people in person and meeting new people with interests in common.

(Though it would be nice if someone else put the bins out. I must put the bins out...)

But you're definitely complete on your own. A man is a bonus, not the object. And as unhelpful as it is, it probably will happen when you're least expecting it.

Original poster

CareyCarey · 08/07/2021 18:44

Start talking about more constructive ways forward. If online dating is a struggle, how can you build up your resilience?

Yes! That what was I wanted out of the sessions.

Obviously, covid. My friends have really all settled down, which is difficult for me to watch, but also doesn't help me to socialise. (That sounds very cold )

I don't have male friends. I think that could be something to work on, but my interests are very feminine. I'd not be able to muster up the enthusiasm for hillwalking or cycling. The result wouldn't be attractive!

I meet some men at work, but they're always coupled up.

I couldn't try to flirt if my life depended on it, but one of my friends told me once I did it and I didn't know that I had!

OP posts: