to think telling a 31 year old virgin they aren't missing out on anything is ludicrous?

[CareyCarey]

I've really been struggling with my loneliness and singleness, so I decided to try seeing a therapist.

It's a load of shite and it's making me feel worse.

She keeps saying that I need to see myself as complete before I start a relationship. I am not complete! I have never had an adult relationship, or had to negotiate living together or anything that goes along with that.

My self esteem is pretty woeful, but that is because I am so fucking lonely. I have hobbies, and platonic friends, I'm usually out and about (especially now life is coming back together) but I don't have someone to come home to at night, I don't have someone I can rely on, I don't have someone to make coffee for in the morning. I've been on holiday alone, I've been to weddings alone, I go to the beach and to museums, all alone.

I am so sick of it :(

I can't take the idiots any more. This was why I went to therapy, I was hoping it would somehow help. It's so soul destroying for nothing to ever lead towards something positive.

Unfortunately therapy can’t help you with the idiots! I wish it did as that would be a great help
Do you have any female friends? The more you’re out and about and the more circles you know the more likely you are to find someone. So try and get as many hobbies as you can!

If you don't like your therapist then get another one.

I went to a bereavement therapist (so entirely different reasons) and I just didn't get on with what she was saying, so I left and then a few months later found someone else who was the first mental health professional I'd ever spoken to properly and she really helped. They couldn't have been more different and it went from me dreading sessions to being glad to speak to someone.

I'd get a different therapist for sure.

if a man is going to be with me, it will be because I want it, not I can't cope without him.

Yes! I can cope absolutely fine on my own (although someone else taking out the bin would really be wonderful!).

I hear people saying that I am at risk to stay with someone horrible as my only hope, but I could have stuck with the men who only messaged on a Wednesday evening, or who stood me up, or lied in their profiles.

I like myself, but I keep wondering if I'm missing something!
Well, of course you've missed out on some key experiences so far. But it does sound like you feel OK about yourself. Tell the therapist you feel like a 100% complete person who's not had various experiences yet :D

I had my first boyfriend relatively late and then married him, so at 45 when we broke up there were many experiences I hadn't had. It was certainly eye-opening when I caught up on them. I can't say I feel profoundly different now, though!

I had good experiences on OLD partly (mainly?) I think because I was not looking for a partner, just for fun - I wanted a wider range of experience in bed and people who'd go out for good food, music and events. I was more open to a wider range of men as I wasn't planning to settle with them. With the last one I thought it might last two or three months, but he turned out to be nicer than expected so it's been more than 4 years now.

How about if you went back on OLD with the sole aim of kissing someone? Chat to several men at once and kiss whichever one seems most kissable.

I do have female friends, but they've all settled down, and bloody covid isn't helping with making new friends.

I've never made proper friends at any of my classes or hobbies tbh. It's only ever been small talk.

If your friends have settled down, doesn't that mean they have access to their partner's male friends/brothers as well as their own brothers/cousins/male friends - that's twice as big a pool per mate . Maybe they'd be keen to try to set you up with a likely suspect if they knew you'd welcome it?

How about if you went back on OLD with the sole aim of kissing someone? Chat to several men at once and kiss whichever one seems most kissable.

This is the approach I took last time. I think you're right though. I also read somewhere that I should use dating as an reason to go certain bars or restaurants. I like that idea.

A friend has offered but I said no- the guy she suggested seems to have slept with all her friends and I don't want that for my first time ever. I've waited this long, it might as well be with someone I really actually like.

I did think about just going on a date but I actually like the anonymity of OLD, if that makes sense.

How about going on a date with him just as practice?

Practice flirting. He's a bit of a shag-around, so obviously you wouldn't take anything he said seriously (and wouldn't go home with him or drink too much with him), but his experience would probably make for a fun evening.

He might be a good kisser :D

If she suggested it again, I'd maybe think about it.

Try to persevere with OLD if you feel comfortable with it. It'll boost your confidence and give you experience in speaking to potential partners- even hand holding, hugging and kissing requires confidence and practice!

Your therapist sounds like they're trying to appease you rather than help, and that's not right. You are missing out on experiences that are a huge part of adult life- but there's no timeline for it. You move at your own pace and I fiercely believe when it's meant to happen, it will.

Try Bumble friends- there will definitely be someone on there for you to chat to, even if it's just to try speaking to new people- it may raise your confidence to speak to women first before men.

Try to stay open minded and use every experience as a learning tool- even if the person you're meeting is a tool. Find out what you really want- your type, interests, likes and dislikes and then be picky!

What if I'm not, though?

I would be mortified if I ended up doing something stupid. I can't remember the last time I touched anyone. I nearly cried the last time I went to the hairdressers'

My thoughts are

1. Maybe you need a new therapist
2. Would you consider joining a more old fashioned dating agency - not app based but more if a match maker one. One where people are looking for a serious relationship leading to marriage.
3. I hope you find love. It’s obviously something you want. Good luck!

It seems a lot harder when you're at home typing on your keyboard and overthinking it all like mad. In real life it's over in a flash anyway.

I'd consider signing up for an arranged marriage at this point!

(only joking)

Have you tried some new hobbies ?

Salsa 💃dancing
Water sports club
Pub quiz
Been on a singles holiday?

Do your frienss have anyone that you can be introduced to ?

Have you tried a paid dating agency ?

Are you on Facebook, Instagram, etc ?

@CareyCarey

I'd consider signing up for an arranged marriage at this point!

(only joking)

So say to your mate, "you know I said no to you setting me up with [dude], actually I've changed my mind", and go on a date.

And being a good kisser or good in bed is mostly in the chemistry between the two people and what they like, there's no objectively perfect technique that works for everyone. It's about enjoying the sensations.

And so what if you think you make a prat of yourself somehow, yes, you'll sometimes look back at that event and flush all over with embarrassment & cringe, but every single one of us does that (I know I do and we don't die of it.

If you're very anxious about touch, maybe you should address that with a therapist? And perhaps try to get more used to it by going back to the hairdresser, maybe trying a massage, manicure/pedicure, hugging friends & family (Covid permitting)?

You sound lovely OP, and you have a great sense of humour :)

I have also had my "firsts" later than is typical. It builds up into a huge thing, and then given you've waited so long you want it to be a wonderful experience with the right person. Trouble is, it becomes impossible to meet that expectation. You can't predict in advance what a sexual experience with a new person will be like, and it's sometimes awkward or disappointing even when you've had lots of partners.

If you wanted to get into sailing, you wouldn't try to make your first sailing session perfect. Just as long as it wasn't horrible, that's fine. You'd expect it to be awesome sometimes, a bit cold or boring at other times. Sex is kind of the same, it doesn't make sense to pressure the first time, or any specific time, to be brilliant.

I do think you should hunt down more single friends. Many people in long term couples just don't get it.

I get where you're coming from on the "love yourself" thing. Yes obviously it is important to try to build up your own self esteem and confidence. But having had someone who loves you is such a huge confidence boost. It's hard to achieve that on your own. And also not necessary - you don't need to be perfectly confident and "complete" to get into a relationship, otherwise most people would still be single!

People meet people at all different emotional stages and you do not need to be a serene wonderful picture of secure self contentment in order to be a good candidate for a relationship.

@OnlyHerefortheBiscuits No you don't- but saying someone needs to be more X, Y, Z before they get into a relationship isn't a criticism, it's a concern. It's not that the person lacks something to offer other people, it's that they might end up in the shit if they get involved with someone while they're vulnerable/needy (trust me, I know.)

God I'm lucky as in I was married to a greY guy and not satisfied in my mental state so was single for ten years. I had had the sex (with lots of people) and it was fun or not. I think you are complete but you naturally want more but to do that you habe to take the shit of being ghosted (in my case many many times and used and abused) but not let it take you and just keep beinf open. It's not a failure if you can't as basically in my opinion it all ends in shit anyway and perhaps better to not slog on regardless. Probably rubbish advice but maybe being able to have your goals without drama might be better than q shag or a relationship with a man who is an imperfect being like we all are

@CareyCarey

She keeps seeing that I must see myself as complete, and my life as complete, regardless of a relationship.

I have so many goals!
I want to go on a great date.
I want to have a consistent relationship.
I want to kiss someone properly.
I want to have sex.
I want to go on holiday with someone.
I want to be in a long term relationship.
I want to have kids.

Lots of people have had those experiences before and they're probably not 'complete'.

There's many people out there who would have had those fun experiences when they first met their partners but now they remain stuck in loveless, joyless marriages and don't have much of a life for themselves, little independence or financial freedom or self confidence to start again!

So you definitely can't say someone is complete based on past experiences that they had, it's more about how things shape you, how ok you are with yourself, how much faith you have in yourself, how much you grow in your thinking.

I definitely understand that you feel like being lonely affects your self esteem. I think maybe what the therapist is trying to say is you can't just say well my self esteem is low and it's going to remain that way until I have a relationship!

So I think what she's saying is that you need to get to a point where you say to yourself, ok well I can't wait for a relationship to fix my self esteem issues, I'm going to do the work to try to build my own self esteem!!

At the end of the day she's not there to find you a man, she's there to help you heal and she's there to open your eyes and make you realise that you actually can't rely on other people to make you complete, you have to do it yourself!

What do you actually want her to say to you?
Of course sometimes it's good to have a listening ear and someone to sympathise but you wouldn't really get much out of therapy if that's all it was!

Perhaps you didn't click with her and that's fine, maybe you'd click better with another therapist, but I would imagine most are going to say something similar to you!

Usually in therapy one of the technique used is where the therapists helps the client realise what it is that they are feeling, sometimes we dont know and by talking through things we figure it out. Like a soundboard. I think thats the aim to help the client help themself.

Did your therapist acutally say that you must be complete before entering a relationship? Or is that your view? What is yoyr idea of complete? You are enough as you are right now to do anything and try for the relationship you want however brief or longterm with a consenting person!

Are you missing out as a 31 year old virgin?
Im not going to lie to you.
You are,

If you want to wait it out for the perfect person they dont exist. you wont never know until you try. I think that because youve waited so long its been created into more of a big deal and theres now anxiety around it? Forgive me if im wrong

Go and get what you want

I'd maybe try a different therapist if you haven't really gelled with this one. I've been to a few and found them really variable.

I'd persevere with OLD - it's how I met my Dh so I'm a big believer in it!

Some things that help:
Try to do things you genuinely wanted to do anyway for dates. That way, if it didn’t go anywhere you’ve enjoyed yourself and done something you wanted anyway. Treat anything more as a plus!

Get quicker at binning off the shit ones. Think of it this way: efficiency! If you have 100 hours to spend on dating, I’d you can waste 30 hours on 100 losers and spend 70 hours pursuing 7 genuine leads that’s brilliant. But you could easily spend those 100 hours on 20 losers! And then you’d feel hopeless and think you got nowhere, feel you’d invested so much for nothing. When actually the issue wasn’t lack of determination it was too much determination to make shit things work!