At what point does ‘mindfulness’ become ‘selfishness’?

[AttaGirrrrl]

I’ve been seeing someone for about four months. He’s lovely. We get on brilliantly when we’re together. Sex is great. We have lots of shared interests and have a lot of fun together. We’ve met some of each other’s friends and family (but not many because of covid) and got on well.

We’re both late thirties. I’ve been married before and have 2DC. He’s had a few 1-2 year relationships, but mostly been single. This is where I think the problems stem from. I am constantly busy, always trying to juggle 12 things at once, usually flying by the seat of my pants in terms of childcare/work/logistics. He works (hard) 9-5 and then has no other commitments. He’s much more ‘mindful’ than me. If he sits down to watch a film, he concentrates on the film, whereas if I’m watching tv alone, I might also be texting friends/ironing/catching up on admin. To be clear, if I’m with him, I concentrate on what we’re doing.

Because of childcare arrangements with exDH, I tend to see OH 2-3 consecutive nights a week, but not in between. We share texts during the week, but if I suggest talking in the evening he is ‘watching a film’ or ‘listening to an audiobook’ or ‘having an early night’, etc. Part of me admires his ability to focus on one thing at a time, but part of me feels quite rejected. ExDH cheated constantly and, while I don’t think OH is lying about what he’s doing, it just feels ‘off’ somehow. Like his priorities are out? Or is it me? Am I being needy?

I’m finding it hard to process what is bothering me, but it definitely is (bothering me) so I’d appreciate any thoughts /experiences.

Thank you!

"Part of me admires his ability to focus on one thing at a time, but part of me feels quite rejected"
Yeah I would too.
This isn't about focus it's about him having his cake and eating it. His talk about buying houses might well be pie in the sky. If two people are going to have a future together in the one house, then yes they will.be talking to each other every day.
If he thinks his future life is being able to say to you 'feck off stop annoying me I'm watching shite on the telly' then he's a selfish git.
This mindfulness concentration thing is you pretending its OK for him to act like that. He gets to hang out with you when you can dote on him with no pesky kids around. Could he not spare 30mins for a phone call at other times?
Well it seems not.

If he thinks his future life is being able to say to you 'feck off stop annoying me I'm watching shite on the telly' then he's a selfish git.
I’m so tempted to word it like this tomorrow Thank you for making me laugh.

This isn't mindfulness. He see you three time a week and prefers to do other things on his other days. I think its healthy that he doesn't want to talk to you every day.

I’m honestly grinning at how differently people are interpreting this. It makes me feel so much better about my confusion!

(But to be clear, I’m not asking to speak to him every day, or to see him on all of my child free days)

Is he a planner? By the time afternoon has arrived I've planned my evening, so I'm never available for spontaneous stuff. Maybe I'd change my plans if it was something I really wanted to do with someone I really liked and hadn't seen lately. Other than that, no, I don't want a phone call but I'd contact you tomorrow to arrange our next meet up. My plans might seem like nothing to others but they're my plans, I've been looking forward to them and I don't want them interrupting because someone who didn't want to plan has decided they want my attention at the last minute. I enjoy my own company, other people drain me, even the lovely ones. I'm an introvert and it's my recharge time, it's not just a situation I tolerate until the next meet up.

Have you posted about this guy before, this story sounds familiar?

[quote AttaGirrrrl]@Sakurami - I’m saying “shall we speak later?” Or “can we catch up tomorrow?” I wouldn’t expect him to stop what he was doing.

@4PawsGood - he speaks constantly on the phone to his mum/friends. Much more often than I do![/quote]
If he doesn't want to speak to you at all even if it's planned in advance, that's different. But. Does he work? Full time? Then sees you 3 eves a week. He might be phoning his family and friends but how often does he see them? If you're getting most of the physical presence and they're getting most of the phone calls I'd say it's fair. What's he supposed to do, drop them? That's rude, dropping everyone because you've got a DP. And if he needs alone time, well, there's only 24hrs in a day and he also needs to sleep.

If you live with someone its different. You don't have to factor in time for them the same way. They're there in the background, dozens of little 5min interactions. Although you should factor in some time obviously. You sound like mentally you've already moved in together and you want all this little interactions already. He sounds like he likes the idea of moving in together but he's more grounded in the reality that you currently live separately and is reacting accordingly.

With friends you sound like a big chatty daily texter and he sounds like meet ups and calls, quality time, then the rest of the time is his own.

I would expect my partner to be flexible and be available for a chat sometimes when I need to. I would do the same in return. I’m a bit suspicious about your OH being so rigid in his life. He sounds quite selfish and not really into you. He accommodated certain amount of time to you and that’s it. He always prioritises himself and his wants. It might be too early in your relationship but I wonder if he is capable of being into someone at all? Maybe not, that’s why he mostly stayed single until then.

And it doesn’t sound that he’s not chatty type as he chats a lot with his mum …. My DH is not a chatty type but it equally applies to anyone, actually I manage to get the most of his attention.

If I was seeing someone 3-4 times a week I wouldn’t want to talk to them the other nights, texting fine but I need my own time and space to do things. Would be too suffocating!!

I dont think your DP is being selfish or that he is uninterested. He is aware of his own needs and organizing his life to fulfill them. When you are together do you get quality time? Or is he constantly taking calls, texting etc? That would be the time to complain.

Research has show that (in general) males and females tend to approach tasks differently. Our brains are even organized differently. Males tend to prefer to do one task at a time and to concentrate more deeply. Females find it easier to do several tasks simultaneously but do not give the same depth of attention. No one way is better than the other.

I am female but my brain functions in the "male" way in that I prefer to do tasks sequentially. In fact, I can become quite aggressive if I am interrupted in a complex task. In order to forestall this I try to arrange matters so that there will be no interruptions when I have a complex task to do. If Im working on the computer I will stream loud music through headphones so I cant hear anything else. Random callers/phone calls will go unanswered.

If I was watching an interesting film or listening to an audio book I would have already turned off the phone or switched it to voice mail.

Its far better that I should do this rather than be nasty to some person who naively interrupts me.

If Im expecting someone or a package I do less onerous tasks or something purely physical so I can jump up and let it go when interrupted.

@Beautiful3

This isn't mindfulness. He see you three time a week and prefers to do other things on his other days. I think its healthy that he doesn't want to talk to you every day.

Completely agree! He didn't stop being the person he was for 30+ years before you when he met you.

What is it with some people and their need to not only have physical time with a partner but their emotional/mental time when they are not together too?

If I spent 3 days a week with someone, I wouldn't want to spend the other days talking to them too. I have other stuff to do.

@Middlesboroughgirl

Mindfulness becomes selfishness at no point.

That's what I thought.

Seeing the guy two or three consecutive nights a week is pretty good.
You've only been seeing him four months, some of which must have been in lockdown. I wonder what you expect.

The man is his own person - but so are you.

*What is it with some people and their need to not only have physical time with a partner but their emotional/mental time when they are not together too?

If I spent 3 days a week with someone, I wouldn't want to spend the other days talking to them too. I have other stuff to do.*

God, totally agree with this. The desperate need to meld after a few weeks is mystifying. Sixteen weeks and expecting 24/7 availability & accountability is bizarre.

@Closetbeanmuncher

Have you posted about this guy before, this story sounds familiar?

No, I haven’t. There was a post a few days ago from someone who spoke to her OH four times a day and was confused about why he didn’t want to speak more often so I can see why you’d make the link, but I was very much on the “back off” side of that debate!

@memberofthewedding - thank you for explaining this. The turning off phone / voicemail thing is what he does too.

Later posters who don’t seem to have read my updates and think I want 24hour attention, yeah, that’s not me at all, but thank you also for reassuring me that his actions are ‘normal’. It helps.

Sorry but you’ve been together 16 weeks, I think given the short duration of the relationship, your expectations are too much.

When you are together do you get quality time? Or is he constantly taking calls, texting etc? That would be the time to complain.

I think this is the crux of it. If he gives you his undivided when you’re physically together, then it’s fair to presume that on other days he’s speaking with his other friends/family and doing other stuff therefore not available for a conversation with you.

You think this is a bit confusing, and feel a bit lowdown in his priorities, lower than an audiobook.

Really you’ll have to just talk about it! But I don’t think either of you are right or wrong.

You are used to a busy family life and he isn't. I don't think him not wanting to speak between the times you do see him suggests he isn't into you for the reasons others have said, however I do think his idea of one day living as part of your family could be unrealistic unless your children are almost grown up, which I assume they are not given your mention of childcare. (Though 4 months is very early days and seems too soon for such thoughts anyway).

There's nothing wrong with someone who likes to plan their evenings and stick to their plans, but I can't imagine how someone like that would readily cope with someone else's children who will inevitably upset such plans, especially as he doesn't want his own.

It's hard enough being a parent when you have chosen to be and you are parenting your own children. But you grow into it along the way and are grateful when it gets easier as they get older (I am, anyway).

In our family we have several members who are long term single and their willingness to fit into our family events or to support us has been limited. They do but on their terms. They have made their life choices and that's fine, we accept what they can offer. But your description of your bf on his days away from you reminds me of them. So in your shoes, I would have concerns.

I’d run a mile after just four months of dating if the other person was so needy they couldn’t let me have any time alone.

Not everyone enjoys phone conversations. I only make phone calls out of necessity. I prefer to chat in person. He might be like this?

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

I’d run a mile after just four months of dating if the other person was so needy they couldn’t let me have any time alone.

Me too. So it’s a good job that nothing I have said suggests that’s what I want

I agree that neither of us is ‘wrong’, but if we’re compatible in lots of other ways I’d rather try to find a solution than give up @TheFoundations** I would say that communication and how you are when you're not together is a big part of your relationship and how compatible you are/aren't. Not needing to be in touch when you're not together isn't necessarily a bad thing if you're both like that. However, it seems to me that he really values his own personal space which may not be compatible in any meaningful way (and long-term) with family life.

I think he is happy with a part time relationship and you want more full time.

Depends whether you can be ok with part time tbh. I doubt he will change given his history/behaviour. He’s clearly used to doing whatever he wants to do for most of the week.

You need to speak to him about the future. Some posters are judging what he'd be like to live with based on his behaviour now, but it's not that simple.

Living together is a compromise, with pros and cons.

The pros are more company and less separateness, being a family unit, sharing house chores and bills.

The cons are less alone time and you're mostly going to have to go out to achieve it, not having final say in decisions because there's someone else with equal rights to consider, having to put up with things you don't like eg that colour bed linen or that friend of your DP who annoys you or their DC interrupting things and making mess.

I accept all those minis points if I'm living with someone and getting the plus points of that, but I sure as hell aren't putting up with those things when we live separately. Choosing to become a team and commit to someone is a conscious choice I make (or not) based on my strength of feeling for them, not something I drift into by accident.

People do it the other way round too, thinking he's clean and tidy ish with a job so he'll make a good living together partner. But they don't understand/know his attitude towards women/family life.

Then he moves in and it turns out he was only showering before dates, he thinks great there's a woman around now so there's no need for him to clean or tidy and thinks he can give the boss two fingers in a row and quit because her wages can easily afford the mortgage, he'll go back to work when he can find something he likes there's no rush.