The 'Mr entitled atheist extremist' dates

[Umberellatheweatha]

I've been noticing that often the guys I go on a date with seem to take an issue with me not being an atheist and decide its their duty to 'educate' me otherwise.

I should say that I consider myself agnostic. Well, christian really but more in just a spiritual sense. Haven't been to a church in years. So it's not like I'm little miss religious or anything (nor do I feel the need to harp on about my beliefs or convert anyone lol).

But we will be chatting and I love horror movies and ghost stuff so at some point into dating the talk may loosely go towards what our beliefs are. And I'd say basically what I've said in the paragraph above. And with some of them its like you can just see something click in them where they decide its their job to educate you otherwise.

Not that they are all necessarily trying straight of the bat to tell me I'm mental for believing something they don't (though I've met one or two). Its usually a bit more subtle.

Sometimes its just really obvious and arrogant. But sometimes it creeps up over a few dates or even once you are in a relationship as if it's become their personal mission to dissuade you from belief.

I guess its male entitlement? But it makes me think about how ive never had a guy try to convince me to believe in their faith ect but a fair few men try to convince me to give up my beliefs.

Anyway, I've just panned one after a first date there because he was giving me that uneasy feeling he was going that way.

I guess it's a good test to spot entitled wankers early on. But it's still super annoying.

Anyone else had similar experience from dating? (Or partners?) Like they take offense at you believing something they dont...

This is common with people in general OP. I'm vegetarian and have been more decades but when I go on a date and the subject comes up for example, we're eating out. They start making condescending remarks or pointing out how I should be stricter even though they eat meat and fish.

It's the same with faith. Although that's never come up on a date for me as I've never brought up religion. I was brought up in a religion, was atheist for a long time but am now agnostic. My beliefs don't concern anyone else, my choice of food doesn't concern anyone else. I don't take kindly to being lectured to or spoken down to so I can understand why it would upset you.

That's a really good similar example pp. I can imagine it would be difficult to date ppl who have to have an opinion on your food choices.

I think the very vocal atheists do tend to be a bit asshole. I am an atheist, but I stopped hanging out at message boards about atheism etc because of that.

But it's a bit like the reputation of vegans, isn't it? The very zealous, vocal ones dominate the conversation but the vast majority are just going about their day.

I think it's the same with most things.

If there's ever a difference of belief/ thinking / conducting life.. someone always wants to give you their opinion and try and encourage you to do what they do.

@TooBigForMyBoots

True colours being what exactly? Entitled. Dismissive. Rude. Condescending.

I've met Christian men who are entitled, dismissive,rude and condescending. And men who are atheists who are. And some (religious) women too but not so many.

Back in the day, when I had less confidence than I have today, I put up with a male friend who was all these things and who spent (I now see) three years trying to convert me to evangelical Christianity. I put up with him partly because I lacked confidence and partly because there were times when he dropped the hectoring.

I wouldn't tolerate that kind of crap today. Either you are my friend and don't hector me (about anything). . . or it's goodbye. People who feign friendship as part of a recruitment drive? Life's too short.

Basically telling me I'm wrong to have faith

That's really weird, I mean you can't imagine Christian's running around the world, telling people they are wrong to have no faith and trying to get them to convert!!!!!!!

As pp have said it's for each person to decide on their own preferences/ tolerances. Personally I couldn't date any who believed in a supreme being, the tooth fairy, pixies of Father Christmas. But that's just me.

That's really weird, I mean you can't imagine Christian's running around the world, telling people they are wrong to have no faith and trying to get them to convert!!!!!!!

It is really weird!!! Why co-opt a strategy that you know pisses people off?

Not from dating, but as a Jewish person I frequently find myself having to explain that having religion in one's life does not = 'being a credulous brainwashed bigot' as most of my crowd are quite 'lefty' (as am I) which often comes with 'dismissive about religion).

I often have to explain to people that religion in my life is a spiritual and cultural tradition that we, like quite a lot of others, observe without actual belief in God. Basically I tell people that they shouldn't assume what religion might mean in someone's life - they may have had no experience of it, or been unfortunate enough to suffer a dogmatic, abusive use of religion in their life - but that doesn't mean other people's experience of it is in the same.

The same straw men/imagined 'gotchas' come out a lot:
'Ah, but can't you see how much harm has been done by organised religion' - Absolutely, I'm angry about it too.
'You don't get to pick and choose what you observe, you're a hypocrite if you don't follow every word of it!' - You don't get to decide how religion fits into my life seeing as you clearly don't understand it
'You're brainwashing your kids, you should wait until they're old enough to decide on religion on their own' A) My kids can do whatever they like with their practice (or not) to B) I'm not brainwashing my kids to be Jewish any more than Greek parents living in the UK are brainwashing their kids into being Greek, it's a whole culture and way of life C) If they don't learn about it when they're kids, they wouldn't be able to engage with it properly when they're old enough to make up their mind
'You think you're so superior because you are religious' - no, it doesn't confer any moral superiority on anyone and I think going to a concert, dancing at a rave, taking part in a sports event etc can be spiritual experiences on a par with religious practice

Absolutely get you echobelly.
It's like they immediately assume I must be a zealot or a bigot. So they: decide to be a zealot or a bigot cause that apparently makes perfect sense to them lol.

Some men are just like that.

Whether it's religion, your football team, your car, type of music you like, sense of humour, favourite food, they will go out of their way to explain why you are wrong and they are right.

Send 'em to Dumpsville.

It's nothing to do with them being male and/or atheists. They're just assholes. Assholes come in many forms.

What @haveibeencaughtout said!

@BadNomad

It's nothing to do with them being male and/or atheists. They're just assholes. Assholes come in many forms.

My father is a Dawkins-style atheist. My mother is a very devout Anglican.

They've been married for nearly 50 years and I've never heard them be rude about each others' beliefs.

That said, my father does think Dawkins is a dick, which probably helps. I think it also helped that he came to his conclusions long before Hitchens et al started breaking wind everywhere.

I had a boss like this -that was fun
And a previous short relationship where he was mocking and nasty over our differences in religious belief
It’s arrogance

The ‘I’m right and you’re wrong ‘ attitude
( not just men tho. I’ve met women like this too)

@Echobelly

Not from dating, but as a Jewish person I frequently find myself having to explain that having religion in one's life does not = 'being a credulous brainwashed bigot' as most of my crowd are quite 'lefty' (as am I) which often comes with 'dismissive about religion).

I often have to explain to people that religion in my life is a spiritual and cultural tradition that we, like quite a lot of others, observe without actual belief in God. Basically I tell people that they shouldn't assume what religion might mean in someone's life - they may have had no experience of it, or been unfortunate enough to suffer a dogmatic, abusive use of religion in their life - but that doesn't mean other people's experience of it is in the same.

The same straw men/imagined 'gotchas' come out a lot:
'Ah, but can't you see how much harm has been done by organised religion' - Absolutely, I'm angry about it too.
'You don't get to pick and choose what you observe, you're a hypocrite if you don't follow every word of it!' - You don't get to decide how religion fits into my life seeing as you clearly don't understand it
'You're brainwashing your kids, you should wait until they're old enough to decide on religion on their own' A) My kids can do whatever they like with their practice (or not) to B) I'm not brainwashing my kids to be Jewish any more than Greek parents living in the UK are brainwashing their kids into being Greek, it's a whole culture and way of life C) If they don't learn about it when they're kids, they wouldn't be able to engage with it properly when they're old enough to make up their mind
'You think you're so superior because you are religious' - no, it doesn't confer any moral superiority on anyone and I think going to a concert, dancing at a rave, taking part in a sports event etc can be spiritual experiences on a par with religious practice

Isn't the scenario a bit different with being Jewish, though? Which is an ethnicity as well as (with some people) a religion. There are plenty of agnostic and atheist Jews, after all.

Also, in all my years on the planet, I (a non-Jew) have never been harangued by a Jewish person trying to get me to convert. Does this even happen, I wonder? Christianity, on the other hand, has always had a proselytizing element at its core.

Am totally with you about the spiritual experiences. Sport, the arts, interaction with other species, sometimes even interaction with our own (!), all these can transcend the mundane-everyday

As an atheist it is just very difficult to comprehend an intelligent person relying on belief rather than evidence. It's like hearing a grown adult say the believe in Father Christmas or fairies at the bottom of the garden. It is so difficult to suppress smirks and general incredulity at the absence of reality and to go on and examine how that belief is possible.

I understand that faith and prayer provide comfort in hopeless situations and organised religion provides community and identity. But you need to believe - and I don't. And I find it puzzling that so many apparently do. Do all those Heads of State really believe? In their heart of hearts? Or just pretend they do for the social acceptability?

I recognise that my view above in the first para is offensive to believers of all types so I personally don't publicly express it. But many atheists do, just as many religious people speak of their beliefs.

I don't mean to be insulting, that's just how I see the world.

I’ve had this too OP, but the other way around. I’m atheist, but always felt people are entitled to believe whatever they want. I started dating a catholic guy and was telling him one day about how brave my grandad was when he died. He was more concerned about leaving my Nan on her own, than facing his own death. The guy asked if my grandad was religious, I said no, and he then proceeded to tell me that he must have had faith to have not been scared. He actually argued with me that my grandad (whom he’d never even met) was religious. The fucking arrogance of that!!!

They're just as bad as the believers who shove their faith in your faith.

It's quite fetching, that lisp.

@TurquoiseLemur

Just you mention the point about religion and ethnicity sometimes being linked...

I actually think that because christianity is not, it means that assholes are a lot bolder at insulting christians as and when they please.

It probably feels like a more 'accessible' religion to criticise on dates for the entitled sorts. Its almost like white people are not supposed to believe in 'fairy stories' but other ethnicities are afforded a bit more leeway as its just assumed it's part of their heritage (Though I bet the asshole dates probably make a point of telling them how they've been indoctrinated )

Sorry should have paragraphed that better. Top line of last paragraph belongs with the paragraph above it. Not saying christianity is a white faith. It's very, very mixed. These days anyway.

@Umberellatheweatha

Sorry should have paragraphed that better. Top line of last paragraph belongs with the paragraph above it. Not saying christianity is a white faith. It's very, very mixed. These days anyway.

It always has been. I can't think of any truly white religions. Druidism perhaps.

@herethereandeverywhere

As an atheist it is just very difficult to comprehend an intelligent person relying on belief rather than evidence. It's like hearing a grown adult say the believe in Father Christmas or fairies at the bottom of the garden. It is so difficult to suppress smirks and general incredulity at the absence of reality and to go on and examine how that belief is possible.

I understand that faith and prayer provide comfort in hopeless situations and organised religion provides community and identity. But you need to believe - and I don't. And I find it puzzling that so many apparently do. Do all those Heads of State really believe? In their heart of hearts? Or just pretend they do for the social acceptability?

I recognise that my view above in the first para is offensive to believers of all types so I personally don't publicly express it. But many atheists do, just as many religious people speak of their beliefs.

I don't mean to be insulting, that's just how I see the world.

I have never heard my atheist father come out with such hogwash.

But we will be chatting and I love horror movies and ghost stuff so at some point into dating the talk may loosely go towards what our beliefs are.
Is this about believing in god, or about believing in ghosts?
If it's ghosts then it would surprise me less that you've met multiple men who actually scoff. People are usually more respectful about religion.
In any case, maybe you need to drop in a few clues in your dating profile to filter out people who have issues with this from the start.

@herethereandeverywhere

As an atheist it is just very difficult to comprehend an intelligent person relying on belief rather than evidence. It's like hearing a grown adult say the believe in Father Christmas or fairies at the bottom of the garden. It is so difficult to suppress smirks and general incredulity at the absence of reality and to go on and examine how that belief is possible.

I understand that faith and prayer provide comfort in hopeless situations and organised religion provides community and identity. But you need to believe - and I don't. And I find it puzzling that so many apparently do. Do all those Heads of State really believe? In their heart of hearts? Or just pretend they do for the social acceptability?

I recognise that my view above in the first para is offensive to believers of all types so I personally don't publicly express it. But many atheists do, just as many religious people speak of their beliefs.

I don't mean to be insulting, that's just how I see the world.

As another atheist, I don't feel any urge to smirk at people's beliefs or try to persuade them they are wrong. The evidence tells me that that argument can't be won and will just make people feel disrespected and hurt.

I've never come across this. We move in different circles it seems, but you are right to make it a last date with any man like that.