DH and arguing

[fightorflight10]

For many years my DH said awful things to me, really verbally beat me up.

I got counselling for this and decided to stay in the marriage.

One of the coping mechanisms is when an argument starts I walk away, I then don't have to listen to the nasty things.

For him it's "just a few harsh words in an argument", for me it's a lifelong feeling of awfulness about myself. Honestly the things he's said have stayed with me my entire life.

He now is unhappy I walk away, he has had counselling (at my insistence, or I left) and is also told to walk away, but he doesn't.

I have to get away when it starts, if I stay I risk hearing things I don't want to hear, but now he's angry with me for doing that.

For example an argument started last night, he then said sorry, followed by that's more that you'd ever say (I do and have), which to me meant he wasn't sorry. I decided to then retreat to my room as I knew where this could lead. He then says I engineered the argument because I'd wanted to go to bed?!? No, I need to get away because if I don't I could end up hurt.

I've explained why I take flight, but he doesn't understand.

What's my next move to make him understand?

@namechange30455 I wanted my marriage to work? In between it's a good relationship? Because I've no self esteem? I think probably a mixture of all those.

Also, not one person on the world will believe what he's said to me. His and mine family will just say "it can't be that bad' rightly or wrongly I feel I'd need support to leave this relationship.

Why do you want to fix this? I'm genuinely asking, because perhaps asking you that will help you consider that not all relationships are worth saving.

This isn't just a rough patch in an otherwise good relationship. This isn't a minor character flaw in an otherwise kind and loving man. This is a persistent pattern of abuse by a man that thinks it completely acceptable to tear his wife to shreds verbally just to win an argument. Although I suspect if it was just about winning, he'd accept victory when you walked away - this is really about punishing you for challenging him hence him needing you to stay why he doles out his abuse.

None of this is normal or acceptable OP and you deserve so much more love and kindness in your life than this man is showing you.

You can't fix a relationship where the other person is abusing you, no matter how hard you work at it (trust me I tried). They are choosing to abuse you and that desire is always there, no matter what you do to try and avoid upsetting them.

[quote fightorflight10]@Anordinarymum I get what you're saying but honestly with the things he's said they run through my head so much, they make me feel so bad. I think if I recorded it I would end up replaying it and the thought of hearing the nastiness again actually makes me feel physically sick.

I get your idea though, [/quote]
Well the idea is that when the shit hits the fan and he calls you a liar, you will have proof.
My husband was horrible to me. My children saw it and some of their friends did but to everyone else he was this mild mannered and decent guy. Nobody would have believed me if I told them what he was really like.

"Why haven't you left yet?" is a bit harsh/blunt a question to ask of someone who is obviously vulnerable. Sticking with a partner who says vile things to you is not something that someone would do who has good self-esteem and confidence. Leaving someone is not always easy even if you have self-esteem and confidence by the bucketload, never mind if you already have long-standing issues which mean that you're willing to put up with being insulted.

OP, I would suggest - gently - that you think about whether it is worth putting all this effort into a marriage with a man who can't or won't change. You haven't mentioned any children; if you don't have them, it's easier as you could perfectly well leave him without a backwards glance. Someone who tries to make you feel bad for having been sexually abused is really not a nice person.

It sounds as if you've become a bit stuck in a pattern of threatening to leave in the hope of changing his behaviour - whilst putting all this effort into keeping the marriage going. Can you imagine a life in which you don't have to hear someone saying these things to you, ever, and where you don't have to retreat to your room to avoid being verbally abused? That is a life that you could have. Don't use "I will leave you" as a threat: if that's what you actually want to do, come up with a strategy for doing it (with your counsellor's help?) And if you really don't want to leave him, I think you would have to accept that this is how your husband is, and that remaining married to him means having to live like this.

Sounds like my ex
He used to follow me from room to room when i just wanted to walk away and de escalate the argument

@fightorflight10 you have tried to save your marriage, your husband hasn't.

If you are able to leave then your self confidence and self worth will begin to improve.

I have had years of my husband saying awful things to me. Lying and being deceitful.

He left 2 years ago, I have surprised myself with how far I have come. It's not always been easy.

I have lost weight without dieting and have a much better relationship with my teens.

Please don't think that you have to stay with him.

This is not harsh words during an argument. This is emotional abuse. He isn’t ‘angry’ - he’s completely in control and is manufacturing reasons to attack you, and this is why he doesn’t walk away but continues to attack. This is why he’s frustrated when you walk away.

You say part of what keeps you in this relationship is low self-esteem, and he is feeding it. To attack you over historic abuse and name-call is reinforcing any negative views you have of yourself. Have you addressed the abuse with your counsellor? Now may or may not be the time to explore it, but it will have formed your sense of your value of yourself and your boundaries. When our boundaries have been violated at an early life stage, we may struggle to see ourselves as worthy of respect and we are likely to be carrying some trauma as well.

OP. Youve told him. Youve had therapy. He continues. He wants to do this. He is evil.
You cant suddenly make him realise that its shitty and evil, because he already knows.
You need to get away. Rebuild your self esteem.
You cant change this man and he doesnt deserve so many chances to continue this abuse.
You only get one shot at life. Dont settle for this. You get what you settle for

It takes two people to make a marriage work. There is only one person trying to make yours work

If he doesn't do this with other people then he 'chooses' to do this to you!

He doesn't want you walking away because he WANTS to verbally abuse you.

He is not a nice man!

fightorflight10

re your comments in quote marks:-
"@namechange30455 I wanted my marriage to work? In between it's a good relationship? Because I've no self esteem? I think probably a mixture of all those".

It is. Fear of him and fear of the unknown also may be playing their parts here too as to why you have not left yet. Also you may still love him (but re this I am wondering if what you are feeling now is codependency).

"Also, not one person on the world will believe what he's said to me".

This is wrong because you are being believed here on this forum. The only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is none. Women too are not rehab centres for such badly raised men.

"His and mine family will just say "it can't be that bad' rightly or wrongly I feel I'd need support to leave this relationship"

Many abusers can appear to be quite plausible to those in the outside world and besides which these people do not live with him. You do and you're seeing the real him, the face behind the mask of respectability such people put up. You cannot rely on his relatives to at all support you here and your relatives have let you down abjectly as well. What did they teach you about relationships when you were growing up?. Such attitudes and not being readily believed by relatives keep people in abusive relationships for too long.

And what craftycorvid wrote earlier.

Is this counsellor you're seeing at all well versed in the ways of manipulative and otherwise abusive men?.

How can you be helped into leaving your abuser?.

Well the idea is that when the shit hits the fan and he calls you a liar, you will have proof.

No. Do not get sucked into this bizarre idea that if you could only SHOW and PROVE to him what he is like, then he would magically admit to being in the wrong, apologise and and be remorseful and never do it again.

He knows perfectly well what he has done. OP does not need to persuade him about anything. She needs to decide whether SHE is going to carry on putting up with it, or start to make plans to leave.

She does not need his agreement or permission and she most certainly does not need the agreement or permission of his friends and family.

I agree with @Haffiana ^^.

You could show him 'proof' and he'd just say worse shit like 'you made me do it', 'that's what you drive me to', 'you're making me crazy, there's the proof, look at what you caused' etc.

I'm sorry you are going through this.

It doesn't sound like a healthy relationship.

I'm afraid it is probably best to walk away permanently.

He is damaging you and you deserve better.

My DH also does this.

@Haffiana

Well the idea is that when the shit hits the fan and he calls you a liar, you will have proof.

No. Do not get sucked into this bizarre idea that if you could only SHOW and PROVE to him what he is like, then he would magically admit to being in the wrong, apologise and and be remorseful and never do it again.

He knows perfectly well what he has done. OP does not need to persuade him about anything. She needs to decide whether SHE is going to carry on putting up with it, or start to make plans to leave.

She does not need his agreement or permission and she most certainly does not need the agreement or permission of his friends and family.

Its not to shame him, its for other people and the courts if need be . Its not for permission and agreement but in case others qussrion her or accuse her of anything. It would be good to have that proof.

But you don't need to prove fault to leave someone - or divorce them, actually.

The OP needs practical and emotion support to leave / split up; she already said. I think, personally, that's very much about being in a frame of mind where she is detatching and checking out, not being invested in recording abusive ranting, iyswim.

Its not to shame him, its for other people and the courts if need be hmm.
Its not for permission and agreement but in case others qussrion her or accuse her of anything. It would be good to have that proof.

It would be useless and pointless. She can leave and divorce simply because she wants to. No proof needed for courts or other people. Who on earth is going to 'accuse her'?

My husband also said truly cruel and awful things to me, that still go round and round in my head when I have a bad day. But now he's gone, the bad days are less and less, and the good days where I don't think about those things are more and more.

One of the hardest things for me to come to terms with has been the fact that he chose to do/say everything that happened. He understood exactly what he was doing, exactly how much it hurt me, and he chose to do. He did it on purpose, for whatever reason - to get his own way, to make me feel bad, to make himself feel better, whatever. But he knowingly made that choice every single time. There was nothing I could do to make him see or understand how much it hurt me - he already understood, and he didn't care.

What he meant was HE engeneered the argument because you wanted to go to bed.

He is a nasty person and his sort dont want you to walk away and get space because they are saying things that are intended to make you feel like shit.

You should NEVER have to explain to someone how their nastiness is making you feel. If you find yourself thinking 'if only I could fund the right words to make him understand' - you are in am abusive relationship.

He knows. He just doesnt want you to know he knows. What he is doing is deliberately to hurt you.
Once you realise that, you'll find it much easier to leave.

Oh and, if you're thinking 'but why would someone who loves me want to hurt me?' Then ask yourself 'why would someone who loves me say horrible nasty things to me?'. Answer: they wouldn't. You are not his partner. You are his victim. He takes his pleasure from putting you down. Run.

@irishoak I think of the things all the time, last thing at night, first thing in the morning. It's exhausting.

I know you're all right, I need to leave, I need to make that decision and go.

Children are grown up now.

I thik you should LTB .Obviously he has ground your confidence to zero ,so he can be in control .I am glad you have a Counsellor on side .However I really dont see what you are getting from this .Is he always like this? Does he have any redeeming features? Do you have anywhere to go to ? Surely anything is better than this shit!

You can leave him because it pleases you to do so. You don’t need to be believed, or have your decisions approved of. You’re a grown ass woman and can do what the fuck you like.

Your h is a dick! You’ve been for counselling for it and it hasn’t worked. He hadn’t changed, he’s still abusive.
Your next move is to speak to a solicitor to seek a divorce. Pick up that phone tomorrow and get the ball rolling.
Life is too short!

What do you need to leave?
Can you ask your counselor to assist you?

I have to keep myself safe, so I remove myself

You need to remove yourself from him and the whole relationship. This is what abusers do, bully you to the point you have no self esteem or courage to leave. Regulary tells you that no one else will believe you or want you because eventually you will believe this yourself. Then you try harder to keep him because you want his love, approval or whatever it takes to make it right.

Seek help from woman’s aid. My friend lived like this, she had a heart attack and died in her forties I swear it was the stress of living with him that did it. She wouldn’t leave, she really believed she was worthless. We were making good inroads, but it was an uphill fight that she didn’t have the strength for after 20 odd years of his brainwashing. This was the 80’s & 90’s when DV was much less understood, particularly coercive control.