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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

MARAC domestic violence 2

84 replies

Littlelegs2 · 10/06/2021 22:04

Hi I posted a few days back but can't find my post. So my daughter fleed domestic violence back in November. Well today I found out she's been in contact with him. Whilst he's been in prison. He's been in prison for around 6 months. Now I was hoping she would use that time to distance herself/move on . But a short while back she had contact with him for 20hrs . She said that was over a couple of weeks. And there's no been no contact for a month.

Professionals found out and now my grandson is on the child protection register. Daughter was put into emgency accommodation due to the domestic violence. He now has her phone number. Social services think he knows where she is although Daughter says he does not. Social services want her move from where she is either by approaching another council or by going to a refuge.

I feel so upset and sad for her and my grandson. I don't understand why she has done this . She was with him for about 9 months . He's not her sons father . So it's not even like it was long term and the violence happend over time. It was all pretty fast.

Basically if she does not show that she's stopped contacting him/they find out she has been in contact with him . Her son will be put in care.

I honestly don't know what to do .

OP posts:
lilmishap · 12/06/2021 23:07

I should have said they may decide to apply for removal sorry if I confused the wording. Her best bet is to comply with all the agencies available to her, it is frightening but you have to maintain your composure.
My ex created a hostage situation with my kids in the house and tried to stab an officer I was fucking terrified of losing my boys, I was told at one point they were considering approaching the court for removal for their safety (despite me complying) but we're all still together.
It's important to stay calm and deal with the actual situation rather than your worst fears about what could happen.

Original poster
Littlelegs2 · 12/06/2021 23:11

@lilmishap

Okay she has been reporting him but he has been insistent on having contact with her? She needs to change her number again and sever all contact, it's not as simple as 'she spoke to him she must want him back' it can sometimes seem easier to try and appease the abuser if he makes it clear she cannot escape him. I'm speaking from experience I tried very hard to sever contact and it involved about 5 different number changes and I moved 3 times in less than 4 months, she needs to show SS she wants to be safe. Could she stay with you? She will need support and not judgement as he seems to be very insistent on retaining contact, she may need to be moved again. She will also need EVERY legal route covered, restraining orders and constant reporting of EVERY contact to convince SS she is serious.

Sadly if SS decide he is too invested they may remove her child BUT they should be willing to try and make her safe first. Your support will be crucial to this but it may be time to have a very uncomfortable conversation making sure she understands it's lose him or lose her child while also understanding he is not allowing her to just 'lose him', she has to be hidden from him regardless of how inconvenient it is to keep changing numbers, she has to do so.

Yes she reported everytime he made contact. Apart from the most recent which was when she spent actual time talking to him. We have ordered her a new sim which should be here in a couple of days. There in a non-molerstration order. In place. She's going to do the freedom programme. And dv worker and social worker have given her support letters to give ti the council to get her moved. Hopefully they will listen and move her.
OP posts:
Original poster
Littlelegs2 · 12/06/2021 23:15

@Twillow

She has one choice to make - the boyfriend or the son. She can't have both.
Yes I said to her infront of the social worker. . Im going to be blunt .if you have any contact him. They will put your child in care. I'm being blunt so you understand. And the social worker was nodding as I said it.
OP posts:
lilmishap · 12/06/2021 23:22

Can she get a restraining order as well? It will all show that she is taking the risk he poses seriously but the police(999) take breach of a restraining order more seriously, Her best bet is to keep making herself uncontactable and keep reporting.
I slipped up and had long conversations with him because I felt hopeless and thought I could convince him of how serious the situation was with SS, it took a lot to 'fix' that mistake in the eyes of the agencies involved(they understood it as me not taking the risk seriously) but luckily my SW was willing to listen and understood it wasn't me trying to 'get back' with him, I just wanted him to leave me alone and stupidly thought being reasonable might work.

The harder she makes it for him to contact her the more she has in her favour. It is a really shitty position to be in as she may need to sever ALL contact with her social circle, I had to lose everyone.

The freedom programme is great but it's not a fix all, I would be trying to convince her that a restraining order is in her interests and get the police to put a marker on her address, they gave me an alarm and a fob I could carry at all times, if I clicked it the police came without me needing to call them.

I'll be honest it felt like overkill at the time but it did show SS I was serious about keeping us safe.
Taking a child into care is rarely a sudden thing, I was in care as a child and I was aware of the stress involved before I went into care. They won't turn up and just remove with no warning unless something horrific has happened.

Original poster
Littlelegs2 · 12/06/2021 23:24

@RoseRedRoseBlue

Well, if that’s the case, and he won’t comply, the situation will likely resolve itself when he gets his licence revoked and is returned to custody. He isn’t the one calling the shots here, no matter what he might like to think.
I don't get why they are even letting him out early. If he's contacting her from the prison /wrote to her. Hes broken the non molestation several times and that's b4 he's out.
OP posts:
lilmishap · 12/06/2021 23:26

At times I felt everyone was 'blaming' me for it, this gave him a way of seeming like my only support and he was able to convince me only he wanted me to be happy and everyone else was against me.
Be very careful to let her know you don't blame her and you understand how hard it is. These men are sneaky fuckers do not let him take your place as her support.

Original poster
Littlelegs2 · 12/06/2021 23:27

@lilmishap

Can she get a restraining order as well? It will all show that she is taking the risk he poses seriously but the police(999) take breach of a restraining order more seriously, Her best bet is to keep making herself uncontactable and keep reporting. I slipped up and had long conversations with him because I felt hopeless and thought I could convince him of how serious the situation was with SS, it took a lot to 'fix' that mistake in the eyes of the agencies involved(they understood it as me not taking the risk seriously) but luckily my SW was willing to listen and understood it wasn't me trying to 'get back' with him, I just wanted him to leave me alone and stupidly thought being reasonable might work.

The harder she makes it for him to contact her the more she has in her favour. It is a really shitty position to be in as she may need to sever ALL contact with her social circle, I had to lose everyone.

The freedom programme is great but it's not a fix all, I would be trying to convince her that a restraining order is in her interests and get the police to put a marker on her address, they gave me an alarm and a fob I could carry at all times, if I clicked it the police came without me needing to call them.

I'll be honest it felt like overkill at the time but it did show SS I was serious about keeping us safe.
Taking a child into care is rarely a sudden thing, I was in care as a child and I was aware of the stress involved before I went into care. They won't turn up and just remove with no warning unless something horrific has happened.

What is the difference between a non-mol and a restraining order?
OP posts:
lilmishap · 12/06/2021 23:27

A non mol order isn't as binding as a restraining order, she needs one of those.

lilmishap · 12/06/2021 23:29

I don't know the legal bits but the police were very clear they arrest every time a restraining order is breached IMMEDIATELY, whereas with a non mol they pick them up when they have the resources.
Breaching a non molestation is bad but breaching a restraining order is a crime
www.forbessolicitors.co.uk/news/45469/what-is-the-difference-between-nonmolestation-orders-and-restraining-orders

lilmishap · 12/06/2021 23:38

Restraining order equals prison.
To put it in the bluntest terms.

RoseRedRoseBlue · 12/06/2021 23:52

It’s unlikely to be a case of “letting him out” early - this will likely be an automatic release at half way point. What was his actual conviction and sentence?

RoseRedRoseBlue · 12/06/2021 23:56

Breach of a Non Mol is also a crime that can potentially lead to custody

Missingjigsawpuzzle · 13/06/2021 00:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lilmishap · 13/06/2021 00:26

I've heard other women having your experience and I'm sorry it was so shit for you but it did make all the difference for us.
He got 6 months in prison after a breach and left us alone after.
It also convinced SS I was serious about not wanting contact.

I dont think you're wrong but it's clear that consequences vary according to your area. I'm sorry if my posts were upsetting I didnt mean for that.

Workchatter · 13/06/2021 10:42

To my understanding, a Non Mol is imposed when there is evidence of its need, but there has been no conviction related to the matter. So for instance, an ex-partner could request a Non-Mol through a solicitor due to unconvicted harassment from their ex-partner. If the ex-partner then got convicted of harassment, the magistrates or judge would consider whether to impose a Restraining Order as part of sentencing. I believe if I recall correctly the CPS have to ask for it to be considered.

So a Non-Mol is imposed without the need for a conviction. A Restraining Order is following conviction for a related offence.

If someone breaches a Non-Mol they can go to prison (or receive no penalty or varied sentencing). Same for an RO... unfortunately breaching a Non-Mol or RO does not often result in prison unless breaches are frequent and/or significant (in my experience). It's very disheartening to see perpetrators receive a slap on the wrist for a breach. Other people may have different experiences on this, but I can only give mine.

If what I have written above about difference between Non-Mol and RO is incorrect I'm happy to be corrected, as I do not work in the sector who issue them so I'm rough around the edges there.

JudyGemstone · 13/06/2021 11:59

Yes basically one is issued through the civil courts and one through the criminal justice system. A non-mol can be granted even if the victim does not want to report to police.

Original poster
Littlelegs2 · 13/06/2021 12:12

@JudyGemstone

Yes basically one is issued through the civil courts and one through the criminal justice system. A non-mol can be granted even if the victim does not want to report to police.
So basically a restraining order has more power?

How would she go about getting a restraining order

OP posts:
funnylittlefloozie · 13/06/2021 12:42

He isn't "getting out early". With some exceptions, most prisoners are released at the halfway point of their sentence, and spend the reminder of that sentence on licence.

While he is on licence, he can be recalled to prison at any point, and can potentially have to serve the rest of his sentence in custody. His probation officer will draw up conditions for the licence that will hopefully include him not contacting your daughter- and if he breaches those conditions, she MUST contact probation and let them know. All the protective conditions, alarms, police markers, etc, in the world, won't have any effect if the silly woman keeps letting him back into her life.

funnylittlefloozie · 13/06/2021 12:43

The Restraining Order comes from the court, usually at the same time as his conviction. Did the prosecution not request one?

Original poster
Littlelegs2 · 13/06/2021 13:05

@funnylittlefloozie

He isn't "getting out early". With some exceptions, most prisoners are released at the halfway point of their sentence, and spend the reminder of that sentence on licence.

While he is on licence, he can be recalled to prison at any point, and can potentially have to serve the rest of his sentence in custody. His probation officer will draw up conditions for the licence that will hopefully include him not contacting your daughter- and if he breaches those conditions, she MUST contact probation and let them know. All the protective conditions, alarms, police markers, etc, in the world, won't have any effect if the silly woman keeps letting him back into her life.

Yeah I get its not early feels like it though. What's the point of giving 2 years for example and they automatically do half. Might as well just give a year on the first place.

But he's contacting her before hea even let out and has done several times whilst in prison (she reported them times) so why they letting him out when he's been like that from inside How's he going to be on the outside of prison. (That's not an actual question to you ) it just makes no sense. Sad

OP posts:
Original poster
Littlelegs2 · 13/06/2021 13:07

@funnylittlefloozie

The Restraining Order comes from the court, usually at the same time as his conviction. Did the prosecution not request one?
I don't know all I know is he went in prison for the dv. I think it was Under GBH. He's broken the non molestation several times from prison
OP posts:
MrsBertBibby · 13/06/2021 13:11

A restraining order is only available at the end of a criminal case. It can be imposed, on conviction or acquittal, to protect the victim or witnesses. It can be fixed term or indefinite. She can't apply for one.

The non mol may need to be extended, how long is it for?

Original poster
Littlelegs2 · 13/06/2021 13:42

@MrsBertBibby

A restraining order is only available at the end of a criminal case. It can be imposed, on conviction or acquittal, to protect the victim or witnesses. It can be fixed term or indefinite. She can't apply for one.

The non mol may need to be extended, how long is it for?

Ah just asked dd she has both. The non mol is for 3 years. The restraining order is for 15 years.
OP posts:
OverByYer · 13/06/2021 16:54

That’s good that she has a RO but she does need to report to Police any breaches.
If he breaches it he will be arrested and if he has licence conditions it is likely he will be recalled to prison.
She need to stay strong and report, report. If she has an IDVA talk to her. Agencies are always encouraged when people in your daughters situation work with them

Original poster
Littlelegs2 · 13/06/2021 17:10

@OverByYer

That’s good that she has a RO but she does need to report to Police any breaches. If he breaches it he will be arrested and if he has licence conditions it is likely he will be recalled to prison. She need to stay strong and report, report. If she has an IDVA talk to her. Agencies are always encouraged when people in your daughters situation work with them
Yes she reported several times about him making contact. Just a shame it seems nothing will be done
OP posts: