Not the sort of girl boys like

[FuckItAllOffRightNow]

That's what I was told about myself growing up.

Apparently it's true.

I'm most definitely a woman now and still the sort of woman that men don't like.

I know it's not the be all and end all but it fucks me right off sometimes.

[quote Bumpsadaisie]@FuckItAllOffRightNow

I think.there'sot of truth in this.

I do find it easier to manage now the label of 'a relationship' isn't an issue. He can't hurt me or betray me. I have no idea what, if anything, he feels about me. It's just easy.

It's easy. But it comes at a cost doesn't it? It's not "free" to you emotionally. It costs you to have this risk free kind of life, you pay a high price for it in the sense that you don't have the love that you crave.

Better to have the love, and to bear the inevitable loss of it one day, than never to have the love at all.[/quote]
Yes, you're right but love isn't on offer to me either.

Maybe if someone had fallen in love with me it would have been different. I was more open to it when I was younger - I just assumed it would happen at some point. Now I assume that it won't.

I’m sorry you’re feeling this way OP. You sound kind of flat and resigned to the way things are.

I don’t know you at all, so maybe I shouldn’t suggest this, but I do wonder if you’re mother’s words and treatment of you have become so internalised that it’s become the blueprint for your life. You’re subconsciously protecting yourself basically from what you regard as inevitable and a negative cycle of a lack of closeness / rejection that keeps repeating itself?

I think you mentioned you’ve had counselling before, but maybe commit to psychodynamic psychotherapy where you can just be honest without judgement. It can be very empowering. I had not idea how much childhood models / expectations have affected my life and marriage until I had similar therapy.

Do you have female friends too (sorry if I missed that)?

@FuckItAllOffRightNow

Yes, you're right but love isn't on offer to me either.

Maybe if someone had fallen in love with me it would have been different. I was more open to it when I was younger - I just assumed it would happen at some point. Now I assume that it won't.

Hmm. Maybe instead of thinking about love that is something "out there" in the external world that someone might or might not bestow upon you, think about it as something inside you, something you are growing and nurturing inside you.

If you nuture your own loving feelings, you might find you have a lot of love to give to someone else and that a relationship develops.

I think you might cut off your loving feelings - if your "loving feelings plant" starts to grow I think you quickly chop it down, maybe you are frightened it will grow out of control and run riot in your garden.

Largely because I've lost interest through their lack of interest in me.
I might just be reading my own experience into this, so ignore if it doesn't apply, but it sounds something like what I was attempting to describe earlier: the vicious circle of disinterest, when one person thinks the other isn't interested and thus gives up, and it gradually spirals down. Could it be that you are so sure that the other person is not going to be interested that you are already (subconsciously even) distancing yourself in tiny ways from the start so as to avoid being hurt?

How do you feel about this latest guy not loving you? Upset as you think he's great and really wanted him to feel the same about you? Or no feelings at all as you have learned through your upbringing not to expect love from your supposedly nearest and dearest, as your hopes will only be dashed?

How do you feel about this latest guy not loving you? Upset as you think he's great and really wanted him to feel the same about you? Or no feelings at all as you have learned through your upbringing not to expect love from your supposedly nearest and dearest, as your hopes will only be dashed?

Definitely the latter. No feelings at all borne of no expectation. Not even a fear that my hopes will be dashed. Its just not even a possibility in my head.

Yes I probably do distance myself from the start a little. Definitely subconsciously. But I'm not really sure how to do it otherwise.

If you nuture your own loving feelings, you might find you have a lot of love to give to someone else and that a relationship develops.

This is something that was addressed in my most recent therapy. I'm much better at loving myself now. I just can't imagine it coming from another person. I can behave in more loving ways now but I still can't imagine how that would translate in someone else feeling differently about me.

I think you might cut off your loving feelings - if your "loving feelings plant" starts to grow I think you quickly chop it down, maybe you are frightened it will grow out of control and run riot in your garden.

Ha, yes, I think this is a very good analogy.

@zaema

I’m sorry you’re feeling this way OP. You sound kind of flat and resigned to the way things are.

I don’t know you at all, so maybe I shouldn’t suggest this, but I do wonder if you’re mother’s words and treatment of you have become so internalised that it’s become the blueprint for your life. You’re subconsciously protecting yourself basically from what you regard as inevitable and a negative cycle of a lack of closeness / rejection that keeps repeating itself?

I think you mentioned you’ve had counselling before, but maybe commit to psychodynamic psychotherapy where you can just be honest without judgement. It can be very empowering. I had not idea how much childhood models / expectations have affected my life and marriage until I had similar therapy.

Do you have female friends too (sorry if I missed that)?

I donfeel quite resigned to this being the way things are and frustrated by it too.

Your second paragraph is spot on i think.

I completely understand how my childhood affected me in this respect but i can't see how to change it. Most of the time I'm ok with it but everynow and again, it really bothers me.

@FuckItAllOffRightNow

It's when they discover the tomboyish opinionated element that insense them.losomg interest. I'm not doing 'womaning' right kind of thing.

I dated one man many years ago who pretty much told me that I was doing being a girl wrong.

It's such a myth that men don't like women who have opinions, intelligence or independence. It's more about the vibe you have, subtle behaviours etc. Having brains and opinions is great, men like intelligence but don't like when a woman is aggressive or pushy. Having independence is definitely attractive but men don't like when a woman never allow them space to be useful, helpful or protective.

But like I said it's more about the vibe you have. You can be a housewife and have very masculine energy or you can be successful director of big company and also have strong feminine presence.
People generally like people who's personality is unique and complex.
Men like women who are strong and independent yet feminine and vulnerable.
Women like men who are masculine yet caring.
Most of us subconsciously gravite towards people who can meet all of our sometimes polarised needs.

But of course not everyone is the same and wants the same things. If you think you are not in the middle of the spectrum there are people who aren't either.

Instead of focusing on what men want and what is "wrong" with you focus on what you want in a partner.
At the moment you're wasting your time on men who are not interested in progressing relationship. It could be that you're single because you waste so much time on unsuitable men in believe that you can't do better which just can't be true.

I would agree with Lili.

Also OP, what your mother said to you as a child is so ridiculous as to be incomprehensible. How can anyone, even a mother, look at any child and predict how their romantic relationships will pan out? Is she the oracle? When she said you were “too much” of this, or “not enough” of that, did you even know what she was talking about? It doesn’t even make any sense.

Definitely the latter. No feelings at all borne of no expectation. Not even a fear that my hopes will be dashed. Its just not even a possibility in my head.
That's what I mean; you were trained in early childhood that it was not worth hoping that your mother would accept and love you, so you adapted to protect yourself at that early age. It was helpful then, but it's not very good for you now.

Do you have any contact with small children - little nephews, nieces or godchildren? Can you imagine yourself as a little girl, listening to your mother spouting this poison due to whatever mental health problems she had? If you saw that little girl, you'd just want to give her a cuddle and tell her not to take any notice, wouldn't you? You'd tell her that she was lovely and her mum was wrong. You wouldn't say the things in your opening post to her.

You are an adult, but you're still talking about it in terms of girls and boys. To me it sounds like you haven't completely got past the trauma of your childhood and are still stuck in that time.

I know you've already had some therapy, but there are lots of different types and it's always worth keeping it up. Not to "cure" yourself as such, but because you are trying to work on the way you approach relationships, and you might as well get in a professional to support that process, rather than trying to do it all on your own.