Not the sort of girl boys like

[FuckItAllOffRightNow]

That's what I was told about myself growing up.

Apparently it's true.

I'm most definitely a woman now and still the sort of woman that men don't like.

I know it's not the be all and end all but it fucks me right off sometimes.

I know what you mean OP. My ex husband professed to love me because of 'it', in reality he felt emasculated and undermined me for most of our relationship. It was a combination of all the things mentioned by others on the thread who 'get' what you mean, too.

I think many men want to feel needed in some way, over and above feeling wanted, and if it's obvious you're not going to fall into that dynamic, in however small a way, I think these men find it threatening.

@Twinkie01 I'm like your SiL!

@Dontforgetyourbrolly Just like me. On top of that I also swear a lot, so am totally beyond many men's delicate sensibilities!!!

@Bumpsadaisie

You post here wanting a relationship.

You had a relationship. You ended it.

Now you are still having a relationship with him - you see him, you celebrate with him, you have sex with him, you clearly have warm feelings for him.

It's not a "relationship" in your mind though. Perhaps this is why you feel it is now working.

If you think you are in a "relationship" (quote marks) then something happens to put the tin hat on it.

What is that "something" and is it something that you are doing, rather than the man?

I think this is what you can be curious about.

I think.there's a lot of truth in this.

I do find it easier to manage now the label of 'a relationship' isn't an issue. He can't hurt me or betray me. I have no idea what, if anything, he feels about me. It's just easy.

I sometimes feel the same
Usually around the time when I'm refusing to send them pics of my tits or saying no thanks I don't really want a dick pic

@QforCucumber

Well I'd imagine it settles into something predictable and reliable. Something we're you're a team. Do stuff together and are supportive of each other doing things independently but with a common goal of growing and doing stuff together. With a healthy dose of love, respect, loyalty and affection.

this seems quite a big expectation if you're not sensing it by 3 months in though, with my now DH we weren't like this until at least 18 months - 2 years down the line.

This isn't what I'm not sensing though. I end it because they're clearly not into me.

That's what I imagine a long term relationship to look like, I suppose.

At 3 months I'd expect them to he making a bit of an effort - so it's not me doing all the travel and bearing the brunt of the driving and costs. I'd expect them to come along to a birthday celebration of a friend of mine if they're also invited. I'd expect them not to be checking out other women when we go out. I'd expect them not to be criticising me for things that don't deserve criticism (eg my appearance, my age, my driving...). I'd expect them to be happy to be seen in public withe and not sense that they're embarrassed by me. Those are the types of things I've dumped after 3 months for.

If, after 5 or 6 months, they're not sure what they want with me or have started doing any of the above, those are the above, those are the things I've dumped for.

Things that are red flags.

@ravenmum

Do stuff together and are supportive of each other doing things independently but with a common goal of growing and doing stuff together. With a healthy dose of love, respect, loyalty and affection.

You don't think it could develop into that with this guy if you gave it time?

Have you wanted/tried to move into this stage yourself?

He isn't in love with me, i don't imagine he sees himself with me in the future. So it's not a real relationship. I've been involved with him in some capacity or other for 19 months but he doesn't have feelings for me. He enjoys my company. I think that's the most I can say about that.

He has been supportive of me as I am of him but it only really feels like a friendship.

I've tried broaching it with him but he seemed uncomfortable with the conversation. I was really only trying to establish whether we were at least being exclusive or not because someone else had asked me out for a drink.

But that's about all it ever is.

@EBearhug

Thing is, my male friends like that about me. Less so men who are looking for a relationship.

This is probably part of the problem. I work in a male-dominated place - I have at times called colleagues up on sexist comments and had the response, "you don't count, you're one of us." (True or not, that still doesn't make sexist comments okay.) It means they don't see me as a real woman (whatever that is,) but as a token man, despite the amount of time I bang on about feminist issues and do on. So I'm not on the radar as an available woman - which is fine in the workplace, especially as most of them are married, but I suspect that other men outside of work also see me that way, too.

Yeah, I've got a couple of mates who I sometimes go out drinking with. We're like 3 idiots when we go out - we just have a laugh and have fun. There's no romantic interest there on any side although they don't treat me like a bloke. They said a couple of years ago that neither of them had any other female friends in the way that they were friends with me. Perhaps I'm just own worst enemy...

What kind of man are you actually attracted to OP? Maybe approach the situation this way round, rather than worrying about yourself? Do you have a type? Not just physically? Are you clear about what you want or need from a man?

Apart from the physical attraction, I think I was unconsciously attracted to my husband because of his drive, energy and ambition and the direct way he goes about life. But this is all in retrospect, rather than something I realised at the time. I think we came together precisely because we’re total opposites, in many ways. I sensed straight off that he preferred a very feminine woman who would complement him, rather than compete with him - and I wasn’t wrong because to be honest, that’s basically how my life has panned out! But not everyone would be comfortable with that type of dynamic. I think if you are honest with yourself about what you’re looking for, you somehow attract that type? Don’t know if that makes any sense, but that’s how it seems to me.

Also, where are you meeting men? OLD is a minefield for anyone by the sounds of it. The problem will not be you, put it that way.

It sounds like you may have what some would describe as stereotypical masculine traits / qualities which may be putting men off. The same way a man who demonstrates a lot of stereotypical feminine traits won't appeal to as many women - some of this is ingrained into us.

Don't change though OP you sound great.

This stuff is changing but only slowly.

I think I must push them away but I don't feel like I do.

I'm quite busy. Realistically, I can spend an evening/night and a day with someone at the weekend and usually one evening a week at most. I don't mind a few texts in the week and a couple of phone calls but a lot of men expect you to be available to them more often and quite needy with lots of texting in between and the ones who are happy with the amount of time I can spend on a relationship aren't looking for anything serious. I find clinginess quite off putting so I probably do make myself less available and push the first group of men away a bit. But that's not what I'm looking for anyway. But the second group of men aren't after anything serious or they are but not with me.

This is interesting. Are you that into any of them? If you met somebody you really clicked with then I think at least initially you'd welcome more engagement than that. Are you more wanting to find a relationship as an idea, than really genuinely interested in the specific people you've dated and could envisage a future with any of them? It sounds to me like you've just not met someone suited to you and are perhaps looking in the wrong places?

He isn't in love with me, i don't imagine he sees himself with me in the future.
Why do you think that is? Might he think the same about you and have given up on the idea?

When I was doing OLD I had some fun times with someone I suspected was just a charmer - a love-bomber. It was interesting, though, as even though I didn't even want a long relationship with him, and thought it was probably nonsense, the enthusiasm was still really infectious and made it very exciting; it was also a lot easier to act passionately, as it didn't feel awkward; the barriers were lower, so I was more romantic than usual, too.
This works the other way: if one person is holding back, I think it encourages the other to do the same, in a vicious circle.

“At 3 months I'd expect them to he making a bit of an effort - so it's not me doing all the travel and bearing the brunt of the driving and costs. I'd expect them to come along to a birthday celebration of a friend of mine if they're also invited. I'd expect them not to be checking out other women when we go out. I'd expect them not to be criticising me for things that don't deserve criticism (eg my appearance, my age, my driving...). I'd expect them to be happy to be seen in public withe and not sense that they're embarrassed by me. Those are the types of things I've dumped after 3 months for.”

This is quite interesting OP because you shouldn’t have to wait 3 months for anything, frankly! Seriously, don’t entertain ANY of this from the very first time it happens. Definitely don’t be doing all the driving etc - just don’t do it, full stop. It might sound old-fashioned or whatever but, on a psychological level, if you make it too easy for men they will quickly lose interest. Make them pursue you - they enjoy it if they’re interested. If they don’t make the effort straight off, well that’s that, up to them, but at least you haven’t wasted three months finding out! If a man is interested, he will let you know and, apart from being receptive and open to whatever he suggests, you shouldn’t have to do much. On the very first hint he’s disrespecting you in public - just walk. Seriously, they can only do this if you let them. Don’t make it too easy for them by meeting up on their terms like you might do with friends. If you want him to relate to you as a woman, rather than a friend or someone to hang out with, you have to at least expect him him behave like he’s on date! If you expect this as an absolute minimum, that’s how it will go and this is how he’ll relate to you. You sound like a lovely person and if they don’t see that It’s their loss.

@zaema

“Bridget Jones running down the street after Mr D in her underwear in the snow and Monica Belluci's character dancing around the bedroom in her underwear in L'Apartement.”

Well he sounds unhinged, so you’re well shot there.

Exactly what I thought!

What a weirdo. You dodged a bullet OP!

@zaema

“At 3 months I'd expect them to he making a bit of an effort - so it's not me doing all the travel and bearing the brunt of the driving and costs. I'd expect them to come along to a birthday celebration of a friend of mine if they're also invited. I'd expect them not to be checking out other women when we go out. I'd expect them not to be criticising me for things that don't deserve criticism (eg my appearance, my age, my driving...). I'd expect them to be happy to be seen in public withe and not sense that they're embarrassed by me. Those are the types of things I've dumped after 3 months for.”

This is quite interesting OP because you shouldn’t have to wait 3 months for anything, frankly! Seriously, don’t entertain ANY of this from the very first time it happens. Definitely don’t be doing all the driving etc - just don’t do it, full stop. It might sound old-fashioned or whatever but, on a psychological level, if you make it too easy for men they will quickly lose interest. Make them pursue you - they enjoy it if they’re interested. If they don’t make the effort straight off, well that’s that, up to them, but at least you haven’t wasted three months finding out! If a man is interested, he will let you know and, apart from being receptive and open to whatever he suggests, you shouldn’t have to do much. On the very first hint he’s disrespecting you in public - just walk. Seriously, they can only do this if you let them. Don’t make it too easy for them by meeting up on their terms like you might do with friends. If you want him to relate to you as a woman, rather than a friend or someone to hang out with, you have to at least expect him him behave like he’s on date! If you expect this as an absolute minimum, that’s how it will go and this is how he’ll relate to you. You sound like a lovely person and if they don’t see that It’s their loss.

No, I don't want for those things. It's usually around 3 months that I notice a change or a drop in interest. Some of these things take time to emerge but, if they emerge around this point, I end it.

Red flags before that i obviously dump. I was really just trying to illustrate that they owe interest and don't want to take it further
It really isn't my choice.

What a weirdo. You dodged a bullet OP!

Yeah, I know. But it's essentially what told me isn't it? That I'm not the sort of girl boys like. That's partly what she meant.

@ravenmum

He isn't in love with me, i don't imagine he sees himself with me in the future. Why do you think that is? Might he think the same about you and have given up on the idea?

When I was doing OLD I had some fun times with someone I suspected was just a charmer - a love-bomber. It was interesting, though, as even though I didn't even want a long relationship with him, and thought it was probably nonsense, the enthusiasm was still really infectious and made it very exciting; it was also a lot easier to act passionately, as it didn't feel awkward; the barriers were lower, so I was more romantic than usual, too.
This works the other way: if one person is holding back, I think it encourages the other to do the same, in a vicious circle.

No, he told me he doesn't love me. He cares about me but that is all.

But you're right, the fact he sold that meant it became easier for me to be around him because there was no pressure and no expectation.

@PolkadotFlamingos

I think I must push them away but I don't feel like I do.

I'm quite busy. Realistically, I can spend an evening/night and a day with someone at the weekend and usually one evening a week at most. I don't mind a few texts in the week and a couple of phone calls but a lot of men expect you to be available to them more often and quite needy with lots of texting in between and the ones who are happy with the amount of time I can spend on a relationship aren't looking for anything serious. I find clinginess quite off putting so I probably do make myself less available and push the first group of men away a bit. But that's not what I'm looking for anyway. But the second group of men aren't after anything serious or they are but not with me.

This is interesting. Are you that into any of them? If you met somebody you really clicked with then I think at least initially you'd welcome more engagement than that. Are you more wanting to find a relationship as an idea, than really genuinely interested in the specific people you've dated and could envisage a future with any of them? It sounds to me like you've just not met someone suited to you and are perhaps looking in the wrong places?

In my experience men have fallen into one of two camps - necessary/occasional contact and ok with weekend meet ups or theybwajt to meet several times a week amd be in constant contact the rest of the time.

I have a demanding job and need down time plus I have to work some evenings/at the weekend, I have a teenage daughter and other commitments. I just don't have several nights a week.

I don't do online dating. I've met men at the pub, at work, through friends, at hobbies. I don't really know where else there is!

I don't actively date. I'm usually single but will go on a date if I'm interested. None of the relationships I've had have lasted long enough for me to say whether I was genuinely interested and could see a future with them. Largely because I've lost interest through their lack of interest in me. So it's a moot point really.

What kind of man are you actually attracted to OP? Maybe approach the situation this way round, rather than worrying about yourself? Do you have a type? Not just physically? Are you clear about what you want or need from a man?

Yes. I do know. I'm not all that fussed about looks although I do have a physical 'type' i suppose. Character and personality are more important. I've only really dated one man whose personality and character I didn't gel with amd obviously that didn't last long. On paper we should have been well suited but we just weren't.

I think injist find it hard encause I know people who have been together for 30+ years amd are still utterly in love. And I know people.who had disastrous first marriages and went on to have fantastic second ones. I know people who didn't meet anyone of not until their 30s but I'm the only person I know who has reached mid 40s and never had a real relationship.

It's easy to say that one day I'll someone who loves for who I but it hasn't happened yet and I can't see it being likely to happen any time soon.

I do get asked out by men but I don't accept many of them. If maybe one ever 6 months or so. Some of my male friends are men I've been on a single date with or who have asked me out and I rejected but we became friends instead. Friends I can do. Relationships I can't.

I think l would probably feel quite flattered to be described as not girl friend material , shows your not settling or lowering your standards or trying to squeeze yourself into a box you don't belong. With the greatest respect a lot of women run headfirst into relationships and then end up like caged birds, trapped in their pretty prisons. Embrace who you are, and where you are, approve yourself, you don't need a man's permission to be you.

It's not about needing a man's permission to be me. I am me. But relationships are a normal part of life and to not ever have had anything positive or that lasted more than a few months indicates there's something else going on.

If I didn't meet men, didn't get asked out etc then I could understand but the fact that I do get that far but then am unable to progress it any further is an issue for me.

I don't need a man to complete me. I've got a pretty full life but this is a sticking point for me and I've done the years of doing everything alone when other people haven't.

I do do everything in life alone and I don't think there's any shame in wanting to take part in a part of it that everyone else takes for granted.

I imagine it’s harder to adapt into a relationship in your 40s as you would be used to your space; your routine and never being accountable to anyone, etc. That could be equally true for men in that age group as well.

Just thinking of a builder so have in my house at the moment who tells me his life story at the drop of a hat. He’s in his 50s. Never been married and no kids, but he’s had a few relationships. He met a woman who is about 50 on OLD. Took her to Italy and proposed to her after about a year. But now, the reality of her life and commitments is hitting him (she has about 4 grown up kids and grandchildren she looks after etc). He’s was saying to me today, he’s not sure he signed up to all this. I think he just wants her to focus on him exclusively and jet off on romantic holidays all the time. I was trying to explain to him, that’s not realistic maybe.

Do it might just be that the older people get, the more stuck in their ways they become? Maybe some men you e been dating are divorced and wary of getting into another serious relationship?

@FuckItAllOffRightNow

I think.there'sot of truth in this.

I do find it easier to manage now the label of 'a relationship' isn't an issue. He can't hurt me or betray me. I have no idea what, if anything, he feels about me. It's just easy.

It's easy. But it comes at a cost doesn't it? It's not "free" to you emotionally. It costs you to have this risk free kind of life, you pay a high price for it in the sense that you don't have the love that you crave.

Better to have the love, and to bear the inevitable loss of it one day, than never to have the love at all.

@zaema

I imagine it’s harder to adapt into a relationship in your 40s as you would be used to your space; your routine and never being accountable to anyone, etc. That could be equally true for men in that age group as well.

Just thinking of a builder so have in my house at the moment who tells me his life story at the drop of a hat. He’s in his 50s. Never been married and no kids, but he’s had a few relationships. He met a woman who is about 50 on OLD. Took her to Italy and proposed to her after about a year. But now, the reality of her life and commitments is hitting him (she has about 4 grown up kids and grandchildren she looks after etc). He’s was saying to me today, he’s not sure he signed up to all this. I think he just wants her to focus on him exclusively and jet off on romantic holidays all the time. I was trying to explain to him, that’s not realistic maybe.

Do it might just be that the older people get, the more stuck in their ways they become? Maybe some men you e been dating are divorced and wary of getting into another serious relationship?

Maybe.

You're right. I do have my ways and I probably am set in them. Not that I'm not adaptable or flexible. I just know what does and doesn't work in my life. They're the same although I have encountered a degree of inflexibility in men - this is how it's done because this is how I do it and that is all. They seem to have lost their 'open to new experiences' element whereas i still have mine.

I think it's also that I don't really know how to 'be in a relationship. I don't know how they feel.