June 2021 - Well we took you to Stately Homes...

[Sicario]

June 2021, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Picking up from previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4182916-March-2021-Well-we-took-you-to-Stately-Homes-thread?pg=39

Forerunning threads since December 2007 are linked on the previous threads if you want to click back and have a look.

This thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

God, IAAP, AWFUL. My sister in law had to homeschool her three kids with the covid. Nightmare. Just let him play with cars. It’s a few days and the school will understand as you are ill. And lie on the sofa and listen to a podcast or something.

Your mother is awful. Ignore, ignore, IGNORE. You are the priority. You will never get what you want or need from her which is an awful realisation. MM has realised the same and it’s very painful.xxx

Just reading this this morning. Wise people i need advice. I think its happened i think i have just had the message that has broken the camels back and I think I want no more contact. The message was actually innocuous it was about the fact i didn't send someone a birthday card but something in me has just snapped. My baby son is ill, we all have nasty colds and sickness, we have just moved and are worried about bills and she just wades in with her narcissistic crap. I could do chapter and verse here - the latest one was when i happily told her and everyone else that my son (who was in intensive care for the first 3 months of his life) was now given the all clear at almost 2, she said 'oh' and changed the subject back to her.

How do i go about this - do i tell her not to contact me or do i just delete and block everywhere? Can I even block her on an iphone as even though the phone doesn't ring she has left voicemails before and she has my email address. She doesnt have my new address but it wouldnt be hard for her to get as my sister has it and she is fully emeshed.

Thank you wise ladies on here, I am actually shaking writing this but I think the time has FINALLY COME!

Going to have a cuppa now to try and calm down

@Readingtoaster Jesus H Christ, where do these people get off? Block and delete. The fact she doesn’t have your new address is you telling yourself you want nothing to do with her. Your sister can give her your new address, but you don’t have to answer the door and letters can go straight into the bin. That’s awful about your son.

For anyone who followed the Hag story yesterday…the calls to Mr Monkey’s mobile and mine and her RAGE that we didn’t pick up. BECAUSE WE ARE AT WORK. Then sulks later. She’s just posted the letter from the hospital (the cause of the totally unnecessary drama yesterday) through our front door. The appointment is on the 1 November. She could have waited until the evening to ring or today to put the letter through the door. RIDICULOUS.

on blocking on iphones - be sure to block the 'contact', then go into the phone function and block their number there too, and their email address in your email provider. I thought blocking the contact would do all 3, but it did not and a hoovering email slipped through.

Not a NC veteran (I started it about 2 months ago), but IMO it's good to make it unambiguously clear that you don't want contact. You don't have to, but then they can't claim ignorance. No justifying or arguing why it's necessary, just information. It won't stop them trying, but it might at least avoid them doing the routine 'she isn't responding to my texts and therefore must be dead, send fire, police, army and gran'

Wishing you all improved health very soon, @Readingtoaster. Not having to deal with a terrible, self-centred joy suck will give you more energy to get better.

@Readingtoaster - Just delete and block everywhere would be my vote. If this makes you uncomfortable, you might consider sending one last message saying, “please don’t contact me ever again”. There is no reasoning with unreasonable people, and absolutely no point in explaining yourself or trying to get them to see your point of view.

@IAAP - Please stop trying with your mother. It only leads to heartache. You are wasting your time and breath. Wishing you a speedy recovery and please take care of yourself.

ReadingToaster

I would also block her everywhere as well. Its no point in trying to explain yourself here as they do not want to know.

Would fully prepare yourself going forward for an influx of flying monkeys (ignore their opinion as well as they certainly are not interested in hearing your side of things) and "hospital tests"/"health scare" for a previously unknown health condition to name. they are not going to let go of you that easily and could certainly try and hoover you back into their dysfunctional world.

You do not owe your mother anything let alone a relationship here. Its also not possible anyway to have a relationship with a narcissist.

Monkey

The Hag went full on narcissistic rage followed by emotional abuse.

To my mind neither of you should at all be taking her to this appointment on the 1st. Bad behaviour from the Hag should in no way be rewarded from her son in particular.

Gosh thank you all. I can't tag people individually at the moment. My OH is helping me with the technical bits on email - she seems to have used a different email address for some stuff so its possible that she will still be able to email me.

In some ways saying dont contact me again will INVITE her to contact me so it's maybe best to say and do nothing.

The only flying monkey that will happen is just one person and we have very sporadic contact anyway.

Will keep reading and posting for advice thank you all

@IAAP - I have read your back story and was horrified by your parents treatment. They are incredibly abusive yet it feels as though you have not fully processed this because you want your mothers approval and love regardless.
As @AttilaTheMeerkat said your mother or father will never change it won’t matter what you do or say and reaching out will likely set you back.
You and your children are worth so much more than your parents can ever provide you with.
You will never be able to attract the right people into your life unless you start to refuse abusers like your parents entry into it.
You can and you will learn to value and love yourself and you can get through this . Start by saying no. Sending you a massive hug and a bucket of self care permission.

@AttilaTheMeerkat absolutely. She’s vile. I don’t take her anywhere now. I wish I could persuade Mr Monkey to do the same. I think he feels it’d be dumping stuff on brother because of his disability, but then Slave BIL is able to take Hag round a supermarket…the Hag likes the attention of both sons. She never once apologises for taking him out of work.

But the hospital appointments are pretty much the only contact he has with her. I would have gone NC years ago if she was my mother.

He is getting better at pushing back. Hence the rages. Next stop IS handing back all responsibilities to the Slave.

Hello Stately Homes survivors. I turn to you once again for some support.

Separated from XH in mid 2017, DF chose my solicitors (and funded) until 'D'M demanded a meeting with them to be kept in the loop regards the entire proceedings "because we are paying." I declined and wrote to DF stating I would no longer be accepting financial aid from him to further my divorce. In April 2018 my 'D'M shouted at me "if your DF dies of a heart attack because of all the stress of your divorce, I will blame you". Second time I thought about doing myself a mischief: sought a lot of help on this very board and managed to get counselling, family mediation (with siblings) and go LC with entire family particularly 'D'M.

Divorce finalised 11/19, moved house, moved town, moved schools (DC), settled in, all good.

DF had a stroke whilst on U.K. holiday this summer. I was present, he was hospitalised, under Covid rules only 'D'M allowed to visit. I returned home with DC, DSiblings took over support of parents. I kept my distance - texted for updates, generally just made sure my DF was ok.

Finally late September agreed to visit for a coffee. DF doing well, slow, tired, consultant says he dodged a bullet. He went for a nap after lunch, leaving me and 'D'M alone. "It's not surprising he had a stroke - what with Brexit, Trump, your divorce, the pandemic - these last few years have been really hard on us."

I'm so delighted with myself that I kept those platinum boundaries polished. To have my divorce equated to those three things - one which has affected Europe, another the USA, and the third, globally, is really quite something. I have to remind myself that she will never change. She reels me in leading to a false sense of security and then her viper tongue, her scorpion tail lashes out, making me feel just a few millimetres tall.

Do I talk to my siblings about this? They attended family mediation with me and acknowledged but did not fully accept that my position in the family dynamic is much much lower than theirs. Flying monkey in the middle has begun to treat me like utter shit again, eldest whom I thought was the worst of the worst has actually been really very supportive recently by calling weekly and having chats about how the DC are, superficial things - nothing deep, but it's "comfortable". I wouldn't risk going into details with them quite simply because our relationship has shifted so much, but it's better.

Please help me. I'm also pregnant on mag leave and 'D'M delighted in telling me that they've moved surgery recently "because all the doctors are bloody women, and they all keep having babies so there is no consistency." Along with "are you going for a c-section because it's easier? It'll take much longer to heal because of your age." Oh and most recent? "Your youngest is faking illness [Covid cold for weeks] because of the new arrival - have you thought about the impact of a baby on your DC??"

I've allowed her to get too close again haven't I? 🤦🏼‍♀️

@MahMahMahMahCorona - in a nutshell yes, but don’t blame yourself the blame belongs with your DM and her complete inability to have empathy, respect , love … you know all those qualities that decent folk reserve for their loved ones.
The comments around your pregnancy are frankly vile.
How can you protect yourself from her and how much further are you able to withdraw? I would never tell you what to do but if I had my first pregnancy again I would fully pull up the daw bridge .
She or the other sibling you mentioned do not deserve you or your children to be part of their life frankly.
They never change !

@MahMahMahMahCorona

Hello Stately Homes survivors. I turn to you once again for some support.

Separated from XH in mid 2017, DF chose my solicitors (and funded) until 'D'M demanded a meeting with them to be kept in the loop regards the entire proceedings "because we are paying." I declined and wrote to DF stating I would no longer be accepting financial aid from him to further my divorce. In April 2018 my 'D'M shouted at me "if your DF dies of a heart attack because of all the stress of your divorce, I will blame you". Second time I thought about doing myself a mischief: sought a lot of help on this very board and managed to get counselling, family mediation (with siblings) and go LC with entire family particularly 'D'M.

Divorce finalised 11/19, moved house, moved town, moved schools (DC), settled in, all good.

DF had a stroke whilst on U.K. holiday this summer. I was present, he was hospitalised, under Covid rules only 'D'M allowed to visit. I returned home with DC, DSiblings took over support of parents. I kept my distance - texted for updates, generally just made sure my DF was ok.

Finally late September agreed to visit for a coffee. DF doing well, slow, tired, consultant says he dodged a bullet. He went for a nap after lunch, leaving me and 'D'M alone. "It's not surprising he had a stroke - what with Brexit, Trump, your divorce, the pandemic - these last few years have been really hard on us."

I'm so delighted with myself that I kept those platinum boundaries polished. To have my divorce equated to those three things - one which has affected Europe, another the USA, and the third, globally, is really quite something. I have to remind myself that she will never change. She reels me in leading to a false sense of security and then her viper tongue, her scorpion tail lashes out, making me feel just a few millimetres tall.

Do I talk to my siblings about this? They attended family mediation with me and acknowledged but did not fully accept that my position in the family dynamic is much much lower than theirs. Flying monkey in the middle has begun to treat me like utter shit again, eldest whom I thought was the worst of the worst has actually been really very supportive recently by calling weekly and having chats about how the DC are, superficial things - nothing deep, but it's "comfortable". I wouldn't risk going into details with them quite simply because our relationship has shifted so much, but it's better.

Please help me. I'm also pregnant on mag leave and 'D'M delighted in telling me that they've moved surgery recently "because all the doctors are bloody women, and they all keep having babies so there is no consistency." Along with "are you going for a c-section because it's easier? It'll take much longer to heal because of your age." Oh and most recent? "Your youngest is faking illness [Covid cold for weeks] because of the new arrival - have you thought about the impact of a baby on your DC??"

I've allowed her to get too close again haven't I? 🤦🏼‍♀️

Bloody hell. She’s vile. My father had a mild heart ‘attack’ although it didn’t get that far 12 years ago since then ‘he’s going to die from the stress of you’ nothing to do with rage and hatred that burns out of his soul. Although since they were 40 years old I’ve been told how hard they work and deserve everything they have where as I have ‘wasted it all’.

Can you try to limit contact with the not nice sibling and place boundaries in place? Can you get some counselling and refuse to answer personal questions eg about the c section - have you got a new partner?

Corona,

Your parents have really had an inordinate amount of control over you as an adult. They have used their financial means as a way of further controlling you along with bashing you about the head with. It is indeed to your credit that you declined further money from them.

It would not surprise me at all that you went onto marry someone just like your parents behave; am glad to read he is now an ex husband because I would think he is also a horror of a man.

I would not bother with any of your family going forward and would now adopt a no contact position for all of them. Family mediation with them was a mistake to do as well and what you're describing is precisely why. These people never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. LC is really not working out all that well for you here.

The flying monkey is often someone sent in by one of your parents to do their bidding for them so their opinion should be ignored. This person is certainly not interested in hearing your side of things and also has their own agenda.

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles; yours currently is the scapegoat within that family. Your siblings do not want to rock the boat with their toxic parents and are therefore more than happy to keep you in that assigned role. Your dad's role here appears to be one of enabler, bystander and in turn her secondary abuser. Women like your mother cannot do relationships so the men in their lives are either as narcissistic as they are or are otherwise discarded. Your dad has also utterly failed you and your siblings as a parent here by failing to protect you all from the excesses of his wife's behaviours. He is truly a weak bystander of a man.

If you really do want peace in your life you're going to have to drop the rope they hold out to you completely and walk away from them all. Do not further subject your children to any of them.

And yes sadly, you did let your mother get too close and you therefore walked into that lions den; these people are past masters of, "come closer so I can hurt you again". However, this is a mistake that many adult children of narcissists make over and over again so do not be too harsh on yourself here. After all you've had the special training these dysfunctional and abusive types mete out and usually its only the adult children of the narcissistic parents who actually bother with them. Your parents in all likelihood have no friends and there is good reason why that is.

If you were raised by a narcissistic parent, then you've been taught that the narcissist is always right and you're the one who's wrong. A lifetime of such mistreatment typically instills lack of confidence in your own judgment, along with habitual shame at never getting it right or being good enough to deserve the air that you breathe. The children of narcissists may not have realized that the quirks and oddities of their impossible-to-please parents are not in any way unique or special but are in fact the symptoms of a personality disorder.

There's no middle ground of ordinary normal humanity for narcissists. They can't tolerate the least disagreement. In fact, if you say, "Please don't do that again -- it hurts," narcissists will turn around and do it again harder to prove that they were right the first time; their reasoning seems to be something like "I am a good person and can do no wrong; therefore, I didn't hurt you and you are lying about it now...".

Anyhow, narcissists are habitually cruel in little ways, as well as big ones, because they're paying attention to their fantasy and not to you, but the bruises on you are REAL, not in your imagination. Thus, no matter how gently you suggest that they might do better to change their ways or get some help, they will react in one of two equally horrible ways: they will attack or they will withdraw.

Be wary of wandering into this dragon's cave narcissists will say ANYTHING, they will trash anyone in their own self-justification, and then they will expect the immediate restoration of the status quo. They will indeed attack you (sometimes physically) and spew a load of bile, insult, abuse, contempt, threats, etc., and then well, it's kind of like they had indigestion and the vicious tirade worked like a burp: "There. Now I feel better. Where were we?" They feel better, so they expect you to feel better, too. They will say you are nothing, worthless, and turn around immediately and say that they love you. When you object to this kind of treatment, they will say, "You just have to accept me the way I am. (God made me this way, so God loves me even if you are too stupid to understand how special I am.)"

Accepting them as they are and staying away from them entirely is excellent advice. The other "punishment" narcissists mete out is banishing you from their glorious presence this can turn into a farce, since by this point you are probably praying to be rescued, "Dear God! How do I get out of this?" The narcissist expects that you will be devastated by the withdrawal of her divine attention, so that after a while a few weeks or months (i.e. the next time the narcissist needs to use you for something) the narcissist will expect you to have learned your lesson and be eager to return to the fold. If you have learned your lesson, you won't answer that call. They can't see that they have a problem; it's always somebody else who has the problem and needs to change. Therapies work at all only when the individual wants to change and, though narcissists hate their real selves, they don't want to change they want the world to change. And they criticize, gripe, and complain about almost everything and almost everyone almost all the time. There are usually a favoured few whom narcissists regard as absolutely above reproach, even for egregious misconduct or actual crime, and about whom they won't brook the slightest criticism. These are people the narcissists are terrified of, though they'll tell you that what they feel is love and respect; apparently they don't know the difference between fear and love. Narcissists just get worse and worse as they grow older; their parents and other authority figures that they've feared die off, and there's less and less outside influence to keep them in check.

Narcissists are hostile and ferocious in reaction, but they are generally passive and lacking in initiative. They don't start stuff -- they don't reach out. Remember this when they turn and rend you! They will complain about the same things for years on end, but only rarely do anything to change what dissatisfies them so badly.

@therealsmithfield - they never change. They never change. They never change.

I'm going to just repeat this to myself a lot.

I have let her get too close but you are so right - the blame is with her entirely. And fortunately the boundaries are in place and she hasn't succeeded in totally annihilating them because I've been so protective of myself - you are so right about her complete inability to have empathy, respect, love - I actually asked her some time last year "do you feel empathy?" - she responded "I have had so much hurt and devastation from losing people I get close to whom I love that I show love in a very different way, by cooking a meal, or supporting you with homeopathy" (she's a retired homeopath) - she lost her sister when her sister was 11 and she was 9, and she has never, ever let us forget this throughout our entire lives. Never. I actually have said "it wasn't my fault your sister died", before.

You've reminded me that normal, decent folk don't behave like this. I have to keep remembering that this is not normal, that her behaviour and her treatment of me led me into an abusive marriage because I thought that it was a "normal" dynamic.

Thank you for validating my distinctly uncomfortable feelings about what she's been saying about my pregnancy. Having continued with the boundaries and LC, I just don't respond whereas in times past I would have given her the satisfaction of flying off the handle, and she would scurry back to my DF and say I was being mean, and then he would get involved and tell me off for upsetting my mother. He would always side with her too.

She told me she's unavailable to stay first weekend after baby is born - I didn't even ask and I won't - she also invited us for Christmas lunch and I said "no thanks."
Withdrawing is fairly simple - DC are often ill, Covid rife in schools, parents are late 70's.... I just need to put a stop to her getting under my skin and pulling information out of me which she then uses to inform the rest of the family, and generally presenting it as my being inadequate. For example, she recently tried calling but I was on the phone to my sister - so she wrote on the family group chat "Sorry MahMahMahMahCorona - obviously not the right time to call…. XX" - she's such a flipping martyr 🤦🏼‍♀️

@IAAP - thank you also for responding and for helping me to validate my feelings about all this.

I have got to remind myself that her behaviour is not normal. I'm so sorry that you were also to blame for your fathers ill health - it is such a vicious thing to say as a parent, and I cannot for the life of me think that in any circumstance I would repeat it to my own DC. Likewise, her own mother died of asphyxiation from throat cancer and according to my mother, it was because nothing nice ever came out of her mouth. She had better be careful...

I've realigned the boundaries with regards not nice sibling (she's confused and trying to break them down but I simply won't respond), and yes I need to remember not to let any of them draw our personal information. From now until baby and onwards I need to tell them everything is fine and that I'm coping exceptionally well (whilst crying into my third weetabix and surfing for help on MN!)

I do have a new partner and he is quite the most incredible man I've ever met. The DC adore him, as I do, and whilst I'm a little older than most carrying babies, the wonderful thing is that finally we are able to celebrate our lives together as a family and embrace this new addition. DP has met my family less than a dozen times - we really have been helped by the pandemic actually - have been together nearly 4 years. He supported me where they (family) failed throughout the break up of my marriage, my divorce (as a friend initially, and then as a partner), and has helped me realise what a healthy, happy, affectionate and reciprocal relationship looks and feels like and it's wonderful.

Oh god @MahMahMahMahCorona I really relate to what you have written. Especially the peeling of information from you. Hoovering is such a great term isn’t it.
In the end my TM ( sorry can never use the world dear) and I were down to the bare bones of a relationship but she still tried and tried to hook out the information. The smallest crumbs would be fed back to siblings.
If she asked for info I would remain silent so she would up the anti.
It’s just impossible to forge any relationship and stay sane. Lord knows I’ve tried.
Please , please choose yourself over these people. If they can not treat you with the respect and love you deserve they are not worthy of remaining in your life.
When you create that space in your life you will find people who truly love you will come in and fill the gap.

Also , giving life to another little human is magical. Enjoy it and indulge in the joy of it!
Congratulations, it will be incredible for all of you.

The best thing you can do here is live well and without any of your parents and siblings in any part of your life now. It is really NOT possible to have any sort of a relationship with a narcissist and if they are indeed too difficult/toxic/batshit for YOU to deal with, its the same deal for your kids too.

Thank you again @therealsmithfield and @AttilaTheMeerkat - it is so helpful to be able to return to the Stately Homes threads and feel so much support, the kindness of strangers really does exist.

You've reminded me of all the reasons why I went LC a couple of years ago, and why it's high time to concentrate on my growing family - my DC, my DP and our soon to be DBaby! Thank you 🙏🏻

@MahMahMahMahCorona - I agree that going NC with the whole family of origin is the only way to break the cycle. It's very sad and not easy. I did it 4-5 years ago. But it does get easier with time and once you have healed. I'm never going back there. Ever.

Thank you @Sicario. Might I ask how they reacted?

I’m also interested in the reaction. The issue I have is I never get contacted so it won’t blow up until I have zero contact at Xmas and when she doesn’t get fawned over on her birthday. I know I’m in for a rough ride here. Although we’ve set the controls
To move all her emails to junk it’s a shame I can’t prevent the email from being sent!

In answer to that question, the fact was that I didn't stick around to find out. I was sick to death of all the scapegoating and my toxic sister's histrionics. I was already LC. Went to visit 'D'M, my sister was there plus her MIL, and frankly the sight of them all and my visceral reaction told me everything I needed to know.

My sister couldn't get out fast enough and wouldn't make eye contact, at which point I told DM I was sick to death of being slagged off. Can't remember if I even stayed for a cup of tea, but I left DM's house and never went back. I then stopped answering the phone, ignored any text messages from toxic sister and her arsehole flying monkey husband, and went NC.

I told my disabled brother that I wouldn't be in touch with anyone any more. (That's a whole other story. You really couldn't make this shit up.) I also cut off my other brother - the racist, homophobic, bigot alcoholic with the fucking awful wife.

I did hear some whispers that it had really put the cat among the pigeons but so what? I was scapegoat for everything anyway, so this would have been just another excuse to my sister and her husband to continue the constant character assassination.

Fast forward a bit and my toxic sister started to send passive-aggressive shit in the post. e.g. birthday card with a torn 20 quid note to my DD in which she'd written about how ill DM had been lately. Or a couple of really crap christmas gifts for my DDs. I just chucked it all straight in the bin and ignored it. She also sent me happy birthday text messages which I just ignored and deleted. Clearly an attempt at hoovering but I am totally done and never going back.

I have continued to send flowers to my DM for mothers day and her birthday each year because it's no skin off my nose to do so. She was a fucking awful and violent mother (only to me) but I'm over that and I have no axe to grind with her.

2020 I sent a note to my DM saying I was moving away, not sharing my address with anyone, and I'm sure she would understand why. Whether or not she does, I don't care.

My "review" of the last 4-5 years is that it was really hard at first and I shed a lot of tears. Dare I say I think I'm pretty much over it now and much happier not having anything to do with them. Going NC isn't easy, but sometimes it's definitely the right decision.