June 2021 - Well we took you to Stately Homes...

[Sicario]

June 2021, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Picking up from previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4182916-March-2021-Well-we-took-you-to-Stately-Homes-thread?pg=39

Forerunning threads since December 2007 are linked on the previous threads if you want to click back and have a look.

This thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Did the exercise today of writing down all the things that toxic-mum did - filled 2 sides of A4 and that's only on relatively recent things. Some of it is absolutely insane to read back on. Thanks for the suggestion. I also used a tip from elsewhere and wrote down things I love about myself. I only managed 40-odd (meant to be 100) but I figure I need to work on strengthening my sense of self as a distinct person, and one who has value and good qualities.

I also booked some counselling through work EAP. Am serious about fixing this, no more same old tolerating abuse.

I was researching no-contact and found a lot of very angry grandmothers on Gransnet who were outraged their daughters had cut contact with them. It was interesting to see the other side. Absolutely no self-reflection, it was all 'people don't work on relationships nowadays' and 'one wrong word and they cut me off forever'. I bet it wasn't one wrong word, was it...

One thing they said that I thought had some truth to it, though, was the haste to diagnose toxic parents with narcissistic personality disorder. Personally, I think I'll leave that to the people with medical degrees. I don't think my toxic-mum is a narcissist, I think she has low self-esteem and a poor self-image. I don't know why she is like she is, I suppose I just have to trust that she sucks. (and, as predicted, is alive and having a nice holiday)

Hello again...I'm back after a few weeks of quite glorious NC/LC with my toxic family. I've been working on my own mental and physical health, reading, putting my needs and the needs of my children and husband first, reading and gaining perspective...and together with anti anxiety medication, therapy, yoga and mindfulness I have been working through my childhood trauma and feel happy, stronger, and with a great clarity about how and why I have made certain decisions...more confident to move forward.
BUT BUT BUT SHE IS COMING TO VISIT!!
Yes, why? You might ask. Why, when she completely invalidates every feeling and experience, bitches about me to my sister, manipulates, twists, lacks accountability, rationality, is negative, critical, judgmental, openly prefers my sister to me, undermines my parenting, dislikes everything I do...
Why?
Guilt. That's why.
I felt I had to because I cannot ascertain her medical state from the cryptic information she is giving me over the phone. I have tried speaking to her and asking her why she sounds so confused, why she is acting like a small child (conveniently, just when I tried to hold her accountable for her actions). She literally can't get a sentence out. She isn't old. This is quite likely to be a ploy to get attention, to be able to see the grandchildren and to see my new house (where she will want to move in). She has designs on me being her carer, as I was always her carer when I was a child. I have come to believe she has some sort of quite serious personality disorder but which manifests itself as extreme childishness, inability to make decisions, weakness, crumbling in the face of any stress of pressure, making crazy decisions with money and finances (she is completely broke, no assets and in a lot of debt).
I think she might be a covert narcissist of the vulnerable variety, in the sense that everything is about her and her feelings, but I think its likely to be linked to untreated PTSD/anxiety and depression. She refuses to seek treatment.
But she is alone, totally alone, without me and I can't live with the guilt. Everyone has done a runner. I am going to be steadfast in my boundaries which are (i) under no circumstances ever can she live with me, (ii) I am not her carer, she needs to seek medical help if she thinks she has any problems, (iii) I will deflect every negative comment with a positive one, take a deep breath and just leave the room.
So...watch this space.
I will be summoning all my energy to get through this weekend.
Aggghhhhhhhhh :-/

Sod guilt, it’s a useless emotion to have re toxic parents and particularly when it comes to your mother. Would bet my house she feels no guilt and now she is going to further dump on you.

Would cancel her visiting you, cite illness or some form of local Covid restrictions.

She is alone too because she has chosen to be so. The only people who at all bothered with people like this are those who have received the special training I.e the now adult children of same. Please do not have her poison or otherwise threaten the nice atmosphere of your own home, it needs to be a sanctuary.

Just wrote a massive post and lost it 😩

Skimmed down version

@TirisfalPumpkin good work ! Narcissism label helped me because It helped me step towards apportioning blame to her. Prior I felt there was something intrinsically wrong with me.
Labels or no. Whatever helps you unpick and recover your true sense of self.

@openwaterswimming - you have made such great progress by focusing on yourself and your health over last two weeks . Why would you scrap that good work and place her on the top of the priority list? You seem convinced she is not being honest with her health concerns and I think you know deep down she’s playing you? . Could you at least buy yourself some more time so that you can see how it sits to not ‘comply’?

We can ‘not comply’ together if you like?🤗

Have not contacted TM . She can bugger off.

Thoughts have been . What am I afraid of ? The answer.=Fear of isolation.

That was what she did to me growing up. If I went up against her she made sure I was alienated within the family. Very scary when you’re a child but I’m not a child anymore and she can’t isolate me because I have my own family and friends and work colleagues who care about me.

I'm with Attila..if you're struggling with guilt now @openwaterswimming, what's it gonna be like when she's there in person. You know what she wants. You know you don't want to give that to her. Definitely find an excuse to cancel. You can do it. You deserve it.

and well done @therealsmithfield, sounds like you're making great progress!

It's my mum's birthday soon. Have now found I'm agonising about whether I should get DS to call as it's her birthday. ...but after reading this thread (and googling what FOG meant) I've decided... hell no. It was always a MASSIVE deal to comply to conventions around any special days.

One mother's day, ( we're talking 10+ years ago) I had spent the day before having a long massive heart to heart on the phone with my mum, 1hr+ on the phone at least. She knew the next day I was working a crazy long 12+ hour shift. I sent a card, flowers present etc as well. Still ended up with me sobbing late at night after my sister called to rant at what a terrible daughter I was for not calling my mum on mother's day. I called my mum straight away, it was very late. she was very 'hurt and cold'. Even as I type it now, I'm still not sure that I wasn't completely in the wrong, but logically, she knew I was working all day and we talked LOADS the day before.

My mum and sister have ALWAYS constantly moved the goalposts. I always thought there was some kind of secret manual that other girls had that helped them navigate these kind of things cos I always seems to get it wrong. But I don't think I did, I think they just constantly constantly moved the goalposts so I was always in the wrong.

And I can't even begin with Christmas and the shitstorm around that.

So am gonna try and stay firm, remember this is for my SON not for HER. If he asks to call, he can call. If he doesn't, even if weeks or months go by, NOT MY PROBLEM. (and yes I have sent her a card and flowers, oh the FOG!)

(am having a major wobble today, just in case you can't tell! - if i put it in CAPS maybe I'll believe it)

@laalaaland that sounds perfect to me ! You’re not obligated to offer up DS in order to placate or keep the peace.

I think the word ‘cold’ stood out to me. The punishing stance and making her approval so conditional.

The scenario with your sister is classic with her as the scapegoat getting temporarily elevated for lending her ear, triangulating the two of you. No wonder you don’t get along. It’s just nasty!

My mother used to pull this kind of thing all the time.

Wobbles especially given the situation are normal …. Our mothers behaviour however is not xx

I've been following these threads for years but first time posting.

Yesterday was my DDs 2nd birthday and I'm heartbroken that I/we can't give her a loving wider family. My DH was NC with his mum for years before I met him, she's a narc and alcoholic who chose her bf over him when he was a teen and his GF was in the final stages of cancer. Both DH and I were largely brought up by our wonderful grandparents and one of the things that bonded us when we get together. I'm so thankful for them as they brought some normality and love to our childhoods. My DH never had a relationship with his dad growing up as he left when he was a baby and only kept in touch with his much older brother, because they already had a relationship. We're not entirely sure how much of that is down to his mum for keeping them apart and playing the boys off against one another, or how much was his dad. When DH went NC with his mum, his dad got in touch asking for a relationship. The problem being he never tried to get to know DH and despite him now being an adult,treated him very much like a child and he as (absent) parent should be in charge. .

The situation with his dad started unraveling when DH and I were pregnant with our daughter. DH was setting boundaries and they were walking all over them. They insisted we travel across country with a newborn to attend a get together for his dad and step mums anniversary. His dad and step mum were married on DHs 5th birthday, the anniversary also fell on DHs 30th but there was to be no mention or celebration of that because it wasn't significant. We gradually withdrew. For DDs first birthday, during lockdown but restrictions slightly lifted,we offered for them to attend a day out to a local attraction in lieu of a party. That wasn't good enough and we were to travel across country,on the day of her birthday, breaking restrictions,to be with them instead. Despite me having only just returned to a full on job, and DH having worked relentlessly all the way through as well as being knackered new parents with no support. They are retired/semi retired,in their 60s with full health. They travel cross country to visit other family regularly,but in our case we were to visit despite them not having bothered to keep in touch during lockdown when we couldn't meet up. Pictures of baby DD unanswered or with one word replies etc,but happy to post on FB about missing her! They even publicly said that they weren't bothered about us,only about seeing DD. Others took this as a joke but we could see it was real. We went NC with them.

My dad has been absent since I was 8, he and my mum were in an abusive relationship. My mum is a functioning alcoholic who's had MH issues my whole life. We were NC for years before I had DD, because we got a dog and asked other people to take care of said dog while we went on holiday. My mum was working nightshifts in the NHS, struggling with her MH and on her own at the time. The people we asked were local to us, retired and used to dogs. Apparently I was only doing it to get back at her?! When I fell pregnant with what is likely to be her one and only grandchild, I broke the NC to contact her and let her know from me. I battled with this decision for a few months before contacting her, and because of this she was instantly offended that she wasn't the first to know, despite us not having spoken for years prior. Within 12hrs her messages had turned abusive,calling me names, calling my DH abusive for 'taking me away', quoting the sword of Damocles and other random stuff. Then came the worst part for me. Letting me know that her new partner had a son who was due a girl at a similar due date to me, and that she was going to be grandmother, babysitting regularly and that the baby was to be named after her. She was going to treat this baby as a replacement for me because I hadn't turned into the doting daughter she deserved. I went NC again for my own MH at that point.

So here we are, my wonderful little girl is 2 and she has no grandparents in her life. DH and I were so close to our grandparents growing up, both having lived with them for periods of time etc. My daughter isn't going to have that. She still has 2 uncles who are vaguely interested but no other family. I know she is so so so loved by me and DH but it still breaks my heart. None of them think even to send a fucking card, none of them could get over themselves enough to try and have a relationship for the sake of her.

She is an amazing, kind, happy little girl and it breaks my heart on occasions like this. Our elderly neighbors asked when her grandparents were coming to spoil her, I could barely make up an answer. She is so so loved and has a completely different childhood to us. Having her put a lot of our parent's actions into perspective even more, but it still hurts. I so wish our grandparents were still here to meet her and that we could have just skipped a generation somehow.

@Clydie89

Hi, I've never posted here before, but follow with interest. What you said about your DC having no grandparents in their life and the sadness it caused you really resonated with me. My DC has very limited contact with his grandparents, and to be honest, finds the contact he does have difficult. I would love for him to have that loving relationship you see modelled elsewhere, to have that extended family, to have someone other than me and DH to rely upon. Well, that's not going to happen. So, I've been concentrating a lot on building friendships locally, particularly with parents of his friends. Not deep meaningful ones, but just building a network of places where my DC feels safe and cared about, some places he can go. It's not the same, but it's better than nothing?

In my world, I desperately want to go LC with my Dad, he is so so difficult. Mean, angry and self obsessed 90% of the time. There's more, but that's for another time. Anyway - today I'm not going to phone him. This is a big deal as I usually phone him every day, as I'll admit I completely lost in the FOG. My conversation with him yesterday was so awful however that I'm just not doing it today. Baby steps. I'm having a stern word with myself and insisting that I will NOT feel guilt, he will not die because I miss a phone all. He'll be pissed off, but I can't control that.

Anyway, time to get my DC ready for the day. I'm very inspired by you all

@TeeNoG it's so hard isn't it? Your idea about building relationships is what I need to do,well we all need to do. We've just moved to a new area for a fresh start so it's daunting but perfect time.

What I need to keep reminding myself,in the cold light of day, is that even if I let these people back into my life for the sake of DD having a relationship, they'd never be the amazing grandparents we had. They just aren't capable. The hurt and stress they'd cause would outweigh the small benefits, I'm sure of it. I can't change them. Do your DC have a good relationship with your Dad?

@laalaaland this is a great place to wobble. You know the truth about your mum and her abuse. I’m just re-reading your post about her behaviour after the the birth of your child. BEYOND VILE.

@therealsmithfield gives fantastic advice. My toxic mother in law aka The Hag is so wrapped up in herself that her grandsons aren’t really on her radar. I’m not a parent and I can’t imagine the FOG of having to navigate giving access (or not) to your children. @therealsmithfield the Hag is sooooo good at being a coercive Narc that EVERYONE is a scapegoat. In her fucked up world, Mother Teresa would be a scapegoat.

@AttilaTheMeerkat Mr Monkey is doing really well. I’m so proud of him for seeing her for what she is and naming it.

I feel like Tony Blair with a version of his ‘education, education, education’ as ‘barriers, barriers, barriers’. And Mr Monkey is doing it.

@noirchatsdeux that’s awful, AWFUL. Yep, toxic either way of where the truth lies. And hello to another person with bipolar. And NO surprise that your abuser made the diagnosis about her.

@TirisfalPumpkinm my way of coping with Queen Hag is to write about her. It’s there in black and white - she’s AWFUL. I have to make fun of it. It’s bad enough, but I can’t imagine HOW women here cope with their parents, Hag is my mil. I see at first hand the damage she’s done to Mr Monkey. The writing exercise is great and, sadly, I’m not surprised you’d got to 2 pages with ‘only’ the recent stuff. Great news on the counselling!

@openwaterswimming brill that you’ve had a good summer of NC/LC. Sorry to hear about the guilt. Yep, she can’t live with you and she needs to get help. Mr monkey now has the technique of answering the moans over clothes, loneliness, disgusting flat , the shit life she’s made for herself - you know what the answer is so we’re not going to talk about it. It takes a bit of practice, but it does shut her up because there’s no ‘attention’ to hoover up.

Hi TeeNoG

re your comment that I have separated out further:-

"My DC has very limited contact with his grandparents, and to be honest, finds the contact he does have difficult"

Given what you have written about your dad it is not altogether surprising that he is behaving the same towards your child. Toxic parents more often than not become toxic as grandparents too. If your dad is too toxic/difficult or too batshit for YOU to deal with, its the same deal for your child too. Indeed do not phone him today and start to gradually reduce all forms of interaction with him over time. You do not mention your mother at all here; is she in your life still?.

"I would love for him to have that loving relationship you see modelled elsewhere, to have that extended family, to have someone other than me and DH to rely upon. Well, that's not going to happen. So, I've been concentrating a lot on building friendships locally, particularly with parents of his friends. Not deep meaningful ones, but just building a network of places where my DC feels safe and cared about, some places he can go. It's not the same, but it's better than nothing?"

Yes its certainly better than nothing.

All of us - UP THE NON-COMPLIERS!

@Clydie89 that’s all so dreadful with your parents. Baby named after her - classic. Punishing Narc. All about her. You are very right - they won’t be good grandparents. It’s hard when there are so much emphasis on the good family to have the family which is resoundingly awful. You have found your tribe here. X

@TeeNoG good on you with no phone call. The Hag - toxic MIL - expects a call every day. We’re going away Thursday - Wednesday and that’s no phone call zone. NO WAY I AM HAVING OUR BLISSFUL HOLIDAY WRECKED BY THE HAG. MM has created this rule and she HATES it.

Mr Monkey has just left to take the Hag to a medical appointment. I really don’t know how he does it. I would have binned her years ago if she was my parent. So, he’ll either come back in a terrible state or it will have been bearable.

Xxx to everyone xxx

About grandparents... For what it's worth, I had no grandparents. (Another part of my dysfunctional family of origin.) By that I mean clearly I did, but I never met them or knew anything about them. Both my parents were sent/given away as very young children.

So what I would say is that I didn't miss what I didn't know. I knew that all my school friends had grandparents, and that I didn't. In fact we didn't have any "family" at all except one aunt who didn't live in the UK and we saw maybe once every couple of years.

Here in Stately Homes I think we are all determined to build a solid loving unit without extended (dysfunctional) family, and I believe that it totally possible.

@AttilaTheMeerkat Hi, my mum is not in the picture as she died a few years ago. I think she absorbed a lot of my Dad's behaviour, and now he's directing at me.

My DS has expressed to me that he doesn't like some of my Dad's behaviour. This includes name calling (which my Dad would insist was lighthearted, but it not) and constant winding up. So, basically we don't see him as much as we did. My DS is not going to suffer because of my Dad's poor behaviour. My Dad has showed signs of resentment, but I don't give a toss. I'm not always able to protect myself fully, but I have no qualms about keeping DS away from him.

What I would really like to do is be LC and address my FOG. I've bought a book (The Highly Sensitive Persons guide to dealing with toxic people) which I hope will give me some ideas about how to both remove myself from and deal with my Dad's behaviour.

@Sicario I entirely agree. I had one grandparent that I knew, and she was lovely. But, we saw her maybe yearly and I don't think I missed out on anything in particular because of that. I am confident we are enough of a unit as a family without my Dad.

I think children are more resilient and adaptable than most people think. Not that anyone should be subjected to abuse and neglect, but if not having grandparents around is the norm for them, they don't miss it. Please don't feel guilty. Esp if you're doing it to protect them (keeping their parent sane counts as that, too). I think with any social relationship, it's quality, not quantity, that counts.

@TeeNoG you know, daily phone calls are a big imposition even if you get on well, I don't think that's typical in most families unless there's something major going on. Once or twice a week, maybe. Enjoy having that bit of time back to spend on people/activities that add value to your life.

Just generally on the daily phone calls thing .
My DSil’s father who is married to GB , rings every day at the same time .
Especially when the kids were small the timing was so off. 5pm every day. Regardless of what she would say about it not being the best time, he would persist.

GB is utterly enmeshed with Sil’s family by the way.

I used to think I wish my parents were that involved and cared that much about me 🤣🤣🤣

But seriously has anyone on here any experience of what is normal? I’d love to know more about what normal looks like!??

Regarding grandparents my relationship with dd is different, much more relaxed and less fraught than with my ds. I put this down to the fact I was NC when dd was born and dd has had little to no interaction. In fact she’s really had no interest in any of them.
My mother was at the birth of ds and in his life til he was 3. It has created anxiety for me, In my relationship with him.
Often I wonder if the anxiety is on my side mostly because I’m extra vigilant over damage I may have cause due to my state of mind when they TM and GB are around me.

At the end of the day we all strive to give our dcs better than what we had ourselves but we are human beings and can’t be perfect. We certainly can’t perform miracles and produce non bat shit crazy GPs where there are none. Mores the pity.

We need a non toxic GP factory… great business idea 💡

Whatever you decide trust you are being a good enough parent. Kids are resilient. We all probably do a better job than we think we do at times.
So focus on doing whatever keeps you sane because that alone will enhance your children’s lives.

Quick update- dsis has been in touch via WhatsApp and I am certain it’s because TM is doing her head in now about how she thinks Smithfield has certainly dies in a tragic accident because she has not delivered requested info ( ahem supply) to her door in last two weeks .

She didn’t of course mention TM

I replied keeping it short and sweet , said I was up the wall busy and that I’d call or text her once I was less busy. I also said TM was getting on my tits but that that was nothing new and I wished I hadn’t included that but nowt I can do about it now.

So dsis - 10 years my junior and I’m not sure hat her position is . She did take up favoured position with DF when I began extricating myself and particularly when I moved to other side of the world for 7 years . Which is when they all imploded by the way.

Well, what’s a toxic family to do when the silly old scapegoat gets out of the gate?

She certainly did not want to relinquish that position but then was kind of forced to by DF remarrying and transferring all his attention to new wifey and moving eventually very far away.

This I could see hurt dsis greatly and there are moments when I feel she is the only one who I would potentially stay in touch with.
The issue is if she would stay LC with me if I was NC with TM?

I can’t fathom the relationship with dsis and TM other than TM parentifies and infantisides dsis. Not sure if that terminology is even correct !?
Before she met her now partner she would literally sit between TM and DF and not speak if we were out. She’s come a long way but still too enmeshed with TM to see what she really is.
How much she pisses on dsis boundaries even though dsis pushes back. She just keeps coming.

So in terms of FOG I feel obligation to rescue? Help her. I don’t know.

I am wondering here if Dsis has been used here by toxic mother as a flying monkey sent in by her to do her dirty work for her. Dsis cannot be at all relied upon or even trusted and is indeed still very much enmeshed with toxic mother.

You certainly cannot set yourself up to rescue her though, a person cannot act as either a rescuer or saviour in any relationship because neither approach works. Use your finite resources on your own family unit and further seek radiators in your life, not drains.

@AttilaTheMeerkat she is most definitely TMs flying monkey of that I have no doubt - hence I’ve cut her off at the pass . Still it makes me sad .

My own family is where I need to put my focus and I have felt so much lighter over the last two days .

Ps has anyone here tried EFT? If so has it helped am thinking of giving it a go .

Nearly on my much needed holiday to Wales as of tomorrow.

Some priceless Hag moments today.

1. The one about the nurse appointment

Mr monkey picks her up in a cab at 9 to get to appointment at 9.30. They arrive in good time at 9.15.

Usual moaning: the workmen at her flat, feeling lonely, no one ever rings, the traffic will be terrible (roads are EMPTY).

Nurse is running TWO minutes late and the Fucking Hag starts moaning. Hello, NHS & Covid situation. Jesus. MM bollocks her.

Nurse appointment, she is, of course , as nice as pie and has a little dig at MM.

‘He says I’m always moaning, he doesn’t know what my life is like’.

MM: ‘do you want me to tell the nurse what you were moaning about’.
SILENCE. BITTER SILENCE.

Then she starts moaning to nurse about the workmen in her block of flats. Not sure whether the nurse is supposed to jump in and say ‘yes, in my expert opinion, you should move in with your son & monkey and make their lives truly shit.’

Nurse: you should live in that lovely sheltered flat complex just near your block.

This has been suggested many times with the housing association offering her a place.

Cue martyrdom - it’s too expensive, I can’t afford it, I’ve got no furniture.
She can well afford it.

But, c’mon, why make your life nice when you can guilt trip your children snd be vile.

We feel NO guilt now.

2. the one about the phone call

MM makes his duty call at 6pm

‘We’re going to Wales on our holiday tomorrow’

‘Oh that’s nice, it’s alright for some. No one invites me on holiday’

FUCK OFF AND DIE.

MM: ‘I’ll ring you when we get back on Wednesday’

Hag: ‘nice of you. Not taking your phone with you?’ With the nasty spiteful laugh.

MM: ‘we’re on holiday’.

She has a moment of realisation of what she’s said and back pedals which just confirms that she knows exactly what she’s doing.

Yes, she’s totally VILE. But no contact with her for SIX days. The JOY.

And even more than ever I realise that she wants our place to become Hag Day Care - like BIL was forced to have - where we’d be expected to pick her up, have her sit in our living room watching Fucking Heartbeat at 500 decibels and be waited on like the Queen of Sheba. This is all the moaning about I’m so lonely.

She can’t get to BIL’s on the bus anymore and he’s put his foot down about her not coming into his house because of her not being able to manage the stairs. This has stopped the shitting and flea ridden feral cats coming into the house - she used to let them in. He had to clean up - he’s disabled.

She’s a piece of work. So entitled.

No fucking way is she coming in for day care.

When I write it all down, it’s hard to believe someone can be so incredibly vile.

@MonkeyfromManchester

Oh that’s nice, it’s alright for some. No one invites me on holiday’

Oh this sounds familiar 🤔

I enjoyed reading that and almost spat my tea out especially “hag day care ‘ that was a corker.

Good grief they really are insufferable aren’t they … enjoy your well deserved holiday all of you !