Dh and how he speaks when angry

[Poppetgems]

Dh has a temper, there’s no two ways about it, and I am slightly wary even though he’s never been violent or anything and sometimes I think I’m overreacting.
He’s just spoken to his 84 year old mother on the phone and she has annoyed him by saying something to another member of the family that she’s got muddled and possibly puts Dh in a not great light. Nothing major, just something about why he didn’t go to a family event.
He shouted at her and hung up and when he got off the phone he shouted some more and described her as ‘thick as fucking pig shit, stupid fucking bitch.’
I don’t like it. I cannot imagine ever speaking about anyone like this, let alone my elderly mother.
It’s not normal is it? Or ok? I mean everyone I suppose loses their temper sometimes but I don’t like it. It makes me feel unnerved at the unpleasantness of it.

Yes @ cucumberella you are right.

@cucumberella

It seems the general consensus here is for OP to leave. But surely that puts her in a situation where her children are solely in the company of this horrible man half of their lives until 18? And people often say that men like that will barely see their children, but there are no guarantees. Yes the 50% of the time they are with OP it will be a healthy, loving environment, but the other half of the time surely will be awful for them?

Not saying OP shouldn't leave by the way, I've just never quite understood this

By staying together, children are shown that this is what a healthy and normal relationship is supposed to look like. That this behaviour is ok and should be tolerated. And so the cycle continues for another generation.

Sounds exactly like my dad. He died 2 years ago, I didn't go to the funeral, my siblings are also hugely messed up and my mum apologised for not leaving him. At the time she thought it best to keep the family together. It wasn't.

Some people...are just not good people. And an easy way to spot them is that their actions and words show cruelty or contempt towards others.

I don't need anyone like that in my life. It really is that simple. If someone is not a 'nice' human being then they don't belong around you. Or your kids.

If you leave then you teach your kids to have standards about who they allow into their life and how they allow people to treat them (or others infront of them).

Yes they will still have to see him but at least they will have a safe space to retreat too some of the time and a good role model to copy in you. And hopefully, a happy mother.

Absolutely read up on the narcissists golden child vs scapegoat dynamic. Just incase.

Please do your kids a favour and get them away from the vile man.

My dad used to have angry outbursts like this too. As a child I was always walking on eggshells around him. You just never knew what would set him off, or when. I found the unpredictability of it incredibly scary and stressful as a child, and it only got worse when I became a teen and started to argue back - then the rage well and truly reared it's head. The relief when my mum finally left him when I was 16 was immense.

Do you not understand the damage he is doing to our children? Forcing them to walk on eggshells for fear he’s going to explode? They are only loved when they are proving to daddy that they love him? This is so fucked up. It’s not possible for children in this environment to grow into functional adults. He is going to damage them beyond repair. You might be able to put up with it but your children have no choice. Please protect them.

@cucumberella, I do understand what you are saying. At least if mum is with them all the time, she can protect them but I think leaving is the lesser of the 2 evils. I wonder if men like this can even be bothered with their children once marriages end. ( I have no experience, thank god, but I'm pretty sure they don't. It's all about control, so I should think once they've lost that, it's on to the next poor soul).
I think op would have to box clever ; document incidents, etc, but then I've heard of fathers still having access when mothers have quite damaging evidence .
So, yes, you do make a very good point.

Miserable 50% of the time seems quite a high price to pay for them though.
At the moment they are with me more than 50% of the time, he barely sees them at weekends. If we split he’d probably see more of them and I’m not sure that’s a good thing.
I don’t want to be with someone who can hiss the words ‘she’s as thick as fucking pig shit, fucking stupid bitch’ about his own mother though - is that unreasonable? He has behaved similarly before, unfortunately the whole family know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. His mother is very much about you do this and I’ll do that. There’s not a lot of unconditional love going on.
My concern in leaving him is that it disturbs the image he currently has of ‘family man’ despite not spending any time with his family or bothering with them very much. It’s all about how it looks and he doesn’t do brilliantly when things stop looking good.
An example is our house. It looks pretty nice from the outside, the inside needs loads and loads and loads doing to it.

Oh what they do is use the kids as some kind of prop/ pulling tool when you split. Lots of performance parenting for the benefit of young waitresses. At first lots of Disney parenting, (theme parks, shopping trips ) but that dwindles as they realise how much it costs. At this point they’ll get a liking for Enid Blyton esque experiences (toasting marshmallows round the campfire/ hiking), but generally they only manage one session of that before they start complaining that the kids are spoilt and have no appreciation for nature.

Being damaged for the rest of their lives, being taught and shown that this is normal and part of a 'loving relationship' is a far higher price to pay... I know, I grew up in an abusive environment, then went on and carried on the cycle by having an abusive marriage and children in that relationship. I hated that my mum wouldn't leave my dad, because she thought she was doing what was best for her childre...but she admits now that she can see it wasn't best for us.

I am now free and out of there and have broken the cycle for my two daughters. Yes they have to see their abusive father every other weekend and one evening a week. I wish that I could stop them seeing him altogether. But at least they also get to see that noone should put up with that behaviout. They get to see healthy relationship and behaviour when they are with me, we can talk about how their dad is, what they see, how he treats them. They have a safe space away from it all, and most importantly are learning that this is not acceptable, and to love themselves, to be treated properly, and braking the cycle.

My concern in leaving him is that it disturbs the image he currently has of ‘family man’ despite not spending any time with his family or bothering with them very much.

That's not your concern. That's entirely his own doing and shows what his own concerns really are.

OP, my father said some disgusting things to me and my mother, and had a complicated relationship with his own mother too. But in his limited defence, he never called her names or said anything like that about her. It's another level, especially when she hasn't done anything to deserve it.

Do you honestly think that he would be at all bothered with them going forward, let alone a supposed 50% of the time?. If he barely sees them at weekends now I would also think he won't want anything much to do with them in future either.

All your H cares about is his own self image. I would assume if he wants 50/50 it would be merely used as a tool to further "punish" you with because you had the utter gall to leave him, this most perfect of men in his eyes.

You have a choice here re this man, your children do not.

"My concern in leaving him is that it disturbs the image he currently has of ‘family man’ despite not spending any time with his family or bothering with them very much".

Why should this bother you?. Think more about your reasoning behind this. That's his problem, not yours to take any responsibility of or for. I am assuming that he has tried to make you feel responsible for him and his actions.

Good, he sounds like one one who's thick as pig shit. Listen to your instincts here: you have them for a reason. You're not safe with this foul, angry misogynistic man.

Don't worry about what he thinks. Put your dc first. Leave him. I bet he won't bother with them if he hardly sees them now!

His behaviour is abusive, narcissistic and damaging to them. I can't imagine expecting my 3yo to sit and wait while I had drinks at 10pm - does he have any empathy at all?? Sounds like it's all about him. Vile.

@cucumberella

It seems the general consensus here is for OP to leave. But surely that puts her in a situation where her children are solely in the company of this horrible man half of their lives until 18? And people often say that men like that will barely see their children, but there are no guarantees. Yes the 50% of the time they are with OP it will be a healthy, loving environment, but the other half of the time surely will be awful for them?

Not saying OP shouldn't leave by the way, I've just never quite understood this

This is exactly the reason my Mum never left my very violent alcoholic father. She maintained that if he had had even weekend custody when he went out on his alcoholic binges, we most likely would have been killed by him in a fit of drunken rage, or died in a house fire where he was too drunk to turn the gas off! I was beaten for as long as I can remember. It was terrifying. Each and every time I thought ‘today is the day my life ends’ because he was raging out of control and completely unaware in that moment what he was doing. No begging or pleading registered with him. Mum always intervened and got beaten but then we scarpered under the beds and he left us alone. She deflected his violence away from us. Sadly his drinking started 6 years into their marriage after we were born.

However the difference today is that a man that violent would not be allowed unsupervised access to his children (if the authorities get it right). I think it’s not so cut and dried as people might think.

From the sounds of it OP’s husband has a huge fragile ego and leaving him would trigger his rage. OP would need to plan her exit very carefully and with support of family friends and possibly children’s services to do it safely. He sounds like a very nasty man.

Men like this don't normal bother themselves with doing any sort of childcare, so he may well threaten 50% access or whatever, but the reality will play out much differently.

You really must seriously consider leaving him, OP, if not for your sake, then the children's. Living away from him will mean they feel safe 100% of the time, apart from contact perhaps - and they will also have something to compare against.

Right now, an abusive environment is normal. They don't know any different. You can create a different future for them.

My ex gave me the whole “I want them at least half the time” line. But when it comes to it, it’s just too hard for him, poor soul, and he can only fit them in for one night per 2 weeks.

OP your husband is full of shit and won’t suddenly bother with the kids if he doesn’t now.

If you stay, the children are in an abusive situation 100% of the time, 24/7. No respite, no safety.

Plus being taught this is what relationships are like and this is normal, which is a hard lesson to learn and so many people repeat the mistakes of their upbringing.

If you leave, you can provide a safe home and an antidote to the toxicity. At worst, he gets 50% care, but you can fight it - and as the dc get older they can choose whether to see him or not. There's no such option if you stay, so if they want out, they will leave home, leave you as well, and potentially blaming you.

Hard lesson to UNlearn

@category12

If you stay, the children are in an abusive situation 100% of the time, 24/7. No respite, no safety.

Plus being taught this is what relationships are like and this is normal, which is a hard lesson to learn and so many people repeat the mistakes of their upbringing.

If you leave, you can provide a safe home and an antidote to the toxicity. At worst, he gets 50% care, but you can fight it - and as the dc get older they can choose whether to see him or not. There's no such option if you stay, so if they want out, they will leave home, leave you as well, and potentially blaming you.

Agree with all of this.

The biggest lesson I wish I had been taught as a child is that some people take their shame out on others and that's not ok. It's not your responsibility to take their attacks because you think it will help them or that they love you really even if they don't act like it. You can set boundaries and say when you're upset or they've gone too far. You can't protect yourself from these people all the time (how I wish we could) but holding true to yourself is your protection with the support of a caring and compassionate parent to return to talk about it and reconfirm that it's not you, it's them that has the problem.

There are no right answers here, just very difficult options and I'm sure all of them will feel unsettling and uncomfortable. It's a very difficult position to be in and I hope we can support you in some small way.

@Curatingchaos - YES! My ex is currently at the Enid Blyton stage with my kids. Near the end of our relationship he even came out and said that if he was single and out with youngest daughter in her pushchair, he would pull a lot of women. not envy...

@Smallredclip mine is the same with the younger two. The elder one is a teenager who doesn’t need much parenting grunt work so he sees her more often. Also his girlfriend has a ‘matching’ teenager so he can solidify the whole ‘new family’ thing. Revolting.

My ex hated his mother. We split up, she died. Guess who took her place as his object of hatred.

@prettyvisitor, then you don't fully understand how this kind of abuse works.