Always left out in the friendship group

[DeathOnTheNile]

I'm part of a longstanding group of 5 friends from university. One person in the group I'm not particularly close to, the other 3 I consider to be close friends. We often organise things for major life occasions like birthdays and weddings and over the years I've noticed more and more that I'm left out of things and am the last to know even though I always include them in anything I do and make a big fuss over their birthdays and occasions. There are many small examples, like them organising group gifts where I'm not given any input but am then asked to contribute funds once they've already decided, outings that I find out about afterwards, not being added to WhatsApp groups etc.

One of the group is now getting married soon (we're not in the UK) and I've just gotten a message saying 'We've organised a lunch as a last hurrah for the bride on Saturday, would you like to come?' In those words.

I'm torn now about what to do, because yet again it's them organising something and inviting me at the last minute, even though I would've been happy to help organise things and am helping the bride with her hen's party. I feel like such an afterthought and am pretty sure going along will just make me feel even worse.

Should I just opt out of this friendship group altogether? I'm sick of the high school feel of it all and trying so hard to keep up with people who clearly don't feel the same way about me

I struggle a bit with these sorts of threads. Maybe I simplify it too much? But if, over a period of time, I feel unhappy with a friend or friends then, to me, that indicates that they aren't friends

Friends are people who I feel happy around, who are easy to talk to and who care about me and my feelings. And vice versa

I see no point trying to remain friends with anyone who makes me feel uneasy or unhappy.

I've noticed the 'alpha' person in the group has sometimes made jokes at my expense in front of the others, almost like affectionate teasing but with a bit of a sting.
This could be the problem. If the queen bee belittles you in front of others then her followers will do the same tokeep on her best side. So make out they to tolerate you rather than likeyou.
Perhaps you bought a nicer gift for one of their bday pressies than the queen bee's offering, perhaps you had nicer outfit on at a lunch. Whatever it is, if QB has taken against you others will follow.

Regarding the lunch, not going would be cutting your nose off to spite your face - you were invited, presumably in the same way that others were, so not an afterthought.

The hosts see it as them doing something for the bride. You’ve already arranged something for the bride. The fact that people weren’t interested is a bit of a red herring: you all did your bit.

As an aside it seems you didn’t consult anyone in advance regarding “your” activity - why was that? Perhaps if you had there’d have been more engagement?

I think if you are not naturally assertive and willing to walk away you can get eaten up in female friendship groups. It takes just one alpha female to join a group for the others to shift towards doing as they're told told by the 'leader'.

The 'nicer' you are the more you get pushed aside or forgotten. It baffles me why women do this to other women but it probably lies in the Alpha's insecurities and her need to dominate and control.

I have experienced this a couple of times including a school mum's group. Interestingly I was approached years later by Alpha female to meet up. I declined. Discovered the group had imploded, probably due to another Alpha jostling for control.

The only thing to do is walk away and find people who are more secure in themselves.

Your view of friendship sounds quite transactional. It reads like you feel like you are putting x number of ‘good friend’ coins in a machine each year and expect to get them back. You’re also constructing a backstory for a lot of things that may just be random. It could easily happen that one friend is chatting with another, says ‘let’s take bride out for lunch’, fix a time with bride since it’s about her, then ask others. There doesn’t have to be a process or a committee or a quorum. Most people want their social interactions to be more spontaneous.
You mention nice things and gifts they have done for you, so I doubt they don’t care.
If you want to continue these friendships, you probably need an untouchable sense of self-worth that no scheduling decision can affect. You also need to be the friend you want to be rather than focusing on reciprocity all the time. For example, I post presents if needed so that they arrive on the day. I do it because I like it and because it’s the kind of friend I want to be. My friends never do, if they get me anything it might be years late. I really don’t care even a little bit. I realise they don’t value it the same way and appreciate the people that they are. If you can’t appreciate them without wishing they would act differently, you aren’t really friends.

These threads always baffle me. I have a number of friendship groups and I couldn't tell you if/who there is a Queen Bee/Alpha Female in any of them.

I've recently been in this situation. Group of 4 women. Not very close, as it was a newly formed thing. One of the women started an argument with me over something totally crazy (and I mean insane!), and I've now been dropped from the group. I see posts on FB where they go out for drinks etc, and they post this knowing I'll see it. It's nasty and the lot of them can fuck off. In my experience, a lot of women are bat shit. I'm too old for this rubbish, and I honestly am thankful that I saw their true colours early on, rather than waste any more time with them. The thing is, I can predict exactly what will happen in the future. The argument starter (Mrs aggressive) will turn on one of the others in the group (the people pleaser) and that person will turn to me for advice. Not the same situation Op, but if your gut is telling you something listen to it.

They are not excluding you as such, they just are closer friends with eachother than they are with you

I think it's this. I was in a group of friends a bit like this. It upset me a bit at first, but then I tried to change my mindset to just take what I wanted from the friendship and enjoy it for what it is. I came to realise there can be good things about being slightly on the periphery. Don't want to go to something, or feel like dropping out at the last minute? You can. Sometimes I go to their events and I'm the last to leave, but if it's a day to help someone move house I don't even bother to respond.

All the queen bee stuff sounds very unlikely/weird to me

Personally I have never experienced this in a group of friends

I do know that some people are more attentive or more sensitive, but an “alpha” or “queen bee”?! I think they only exist in peoples minds ...?

Thanks everyone, it's really interesting to hear different perspectives. I agree that it's probably nothing deliberate - dynamics shift over the years and maybe I was a bit naive or unrealistic to expect I'd maintain the level of closeness I did in the past. It does sting a bit to feel on the outside but thinking back, there have been times where others in the group have felt they were on the outside and I was on the inside e.g. when I gave a speech at the 'alpha's' wedding. I know it's not as simple as there being one 'alpha' but I've used that for ease of reference and also because it has felt a bit like that at times!

I decided I'd go along to the lunch because I don't want to seem petty and refuse just to make a point. I think that going forward I'll try and just take it for what it is, appreciate the good stuff they have to offer and detach if/when I feel the dynamic is too skewed.

@ChubbyLittleManInACampervan, you are very lucky then to have not experienced it. The school mums group I was part of, Alpha female introduced by one of the others I was very close to, completely changed the dynamic of people who had got on really well previously.

First thing she did was to invite everyone to her birthday party except me. Bit puzzled but hey. Invited me the day before when I had already made plans. And so it carried on until I was 'ordered' to attend some things, especially things I didn't want to do, whilst excluded from other stuff. Not just me, another couple of people, sometimes in, sometimes out. It was quite obvious some bullying was going on but no one would stick their neck out except me.

Final straw was when she having private chats with my ex husband to be and announced that group think was that they all felt sorry for him but he didn't know it. Exit left! Not one of my previous friends contacted me to see if I was okay. As you say weird but it does happen.

Oh wow that sounds awful, what a toxic person

I’ve always been quite aloof myself in the kids playground, I guess I avoid people like that so would not be on a WhatsApp group with them either

Aloof would be my strategy if I ever found myself in the playground again! Unlikely as it would be a miracle at my age to have any more children!

You think that's bad... I was in a class whatsapp - almost every mum was on it. Then saw them all out in a restaurant on Facebook - every single one of the cowbags, I hadn't been invited and they must have created a totally separate group literally just without me in it to arrange it! I had to see the funny side.

It sounds like a frustrating dynamic OP, they may just not realise how they're coming across, could be an oversight, perhaps time to leave them to it as a group, and perhaps just keep in touch with them separately.

Wow, im scarlett for them, going to all that effort to exclude one person. Thank GOD you didn't show up.

Oh op, o completely understand how you feel. The fifth wheel so to speak.

I have very similar, and would twist myself in knots over it. Sometimes included, sometimes not, often making up numbers or an obligation invite.

So I’ve completely step away from the group.
I don’t rush to answer what apps. I’ve become less nice, less available and much more detached.

I feel much better, I care less, sometimes I go, sometimes I don’t. If I hear about other events/places they’ve been to without me, I’m not bothered any more.

If took a long time to feel detached, and I was very close to walking away completely.

Funnily enough, I’ve found two of the group much more interested in me.

I’d say, don’t go, tell them you have other plans.

@ChubbyLittleManInACampervan yup happened to me with a group of school mums similar to @Dacquoise new mum introduced by my close friend alpha dynamic changed I was on the outs and the other mums followed suit. I see them and they literally pretend they have never met me.

It hurts, but you can't dictate who people naturally gravitate to, nor ask them to consider you when your friends are not included to naturally do that. They are gravitating towards each other for a reason. It might not be your fault at all, or it might be that they don't care for something that you tend to do in communication and they just don't want to tell you - for example a group of friends might tend to exclude someone from plan-making because that person tends to take over, or change plans at the last minute and expects everyone to be ok with it, or is simply very indecisive. It's simply easier to arrange things without them and ask them to come along after the main planning work has been done.

It hurts but the only thing you can do it let them do what they want and focus on making other friends where this isn't an issue.

@3ormorecharacters I agree. The whole group of friends thing sound wonderful - you all know each other and it's nice for outings, but it can get so complicated. Like being in a 4-5 people polyamorous relationship! There can be lots of politics, lots of making sure everyone feels included, and it's difficult if those are your only friends as then you have no one impartial to vent or talk to if you get into an argument with one of them. Some friendship groups can become dominated by 1 person who is quite pushy and the rest are sheep who will fall in line for fear of upsetting the most popular one. It's much simpler to have 1-on-1 friendships!!

I have been left out of things before, or left in the periphery, OP, so I know how you feel. It's very hurtful and makes you question what's wrong with you.

I am wondering as you're a group of 5, whether the other 4 have formed 2 groups of 2 close friends, and so you're on the outside. A bit like 2's company, 3's a crowd, but with 4 and 5 instead. Do you think this might be the case here?

Personally as others have suggested, I would distance myself from the group. Go along to things if you feel like it and don't have anything better planned, but be a bit more unavailable.

I hear you Op. I once received a wedding invite from a very dear and long standing friend ( had known her over 28 yrs ) that had RSVP by, 2 months AFTER , the rsvp by date had expired. I clearly was offered the place to make numbers/meal had already been paid for. This was a very very good friend of mine, always came to our house after sch, i went to hers when she was grounded. We hung out every day/weekend. Boyfriend troubles shared together, house shared in early 20's together as part of larger group.

I went to the wedding , as it was by the sea ( with my then 4 yr old DS as my +1) and enjoyed the day as did my DS. He played with the other children that day and i saw old friends. We made an extended sea side weekend of it , me and my DS . I booked a cottage, we had a lovely long weekend by the sea side, just the two of us. The wedding day was just one day in our long seaside weekend but , it did hurt me inside ; that i was an after thought and that is was why me and DC were ultimately there , in that part of the world at that time.

I have seen this again and again over the yrs with friendship groups ( i am old now 50 + ) and while it hurts i have learnt not to cut my nose off to spite my face. By that i mean i attend the functions and nights out, (that usually suit everyone else ) but only if it suits me now and i enjoy myself , have a good time and enjoy the social interaction, then i go home. But, i don't "invest" in friends anymore , as i did previously.

There is a similar dynamic with sch gate mums. ( queen bee like, stingy people,own the place, went here as a child, know everyone , never moved away and can make your life hell, if they choose to, knob cheeses type people ).

Occasionally, work colleagues can be the same. Those who have worked together since Jurassic times and , you're not from round here anyway, ( i moved counties) also display this kind of exclusive biaatchy traits. These groups exist everywhere.

When they all have problems ( the only time they seem to want to proactively be with /single me out for contact now ) , i am unavailable . When they have no emergency childcare, i am unavailable now. When they go 3 full yrs without bothering with me at all, then, their husbands have left for someone else, and...they suddenly need to spend a load of time with me.... i am not available anymore. I grew tired of being used and "fitting" in with others. I am there only for the good times now, just like they were.

The positive thing about always being left out and on the periphery is , that you learn to cope and manage life's challenges alone. You become very independent, strong and self sufficient. I am divorced and raised 2 DC's alone while working full time and had no friend /sch mum/colleague support at all , through my divorce and single life journey. My "friends " were always busy with each other , arranging things that , i could not attend with a minutes notice. Had they included me in the planning, i would have been able to attend , albeit with a little foresight and planning and on rare occasion , could have included my children too.

My DC's are grown up now and i am literally living my best life. Most of my " friends" are now where i was yrs ago- ...never mind eh! I think this sort of early exclusion "friendship " dynamic, in my experience, sets a tone for the future. I honestly do not think these friends will be a group , who will be there for you when the chips are down , moving forward and in life. They are their little own group. I do not feel you could ever rely on them for " "life support" if you ever needed it. These kind of "closed" groups are really just that.

Go and attend the good stuff OP, the stuff that others have arranged, if you are free and, enjoy yourself. Then leave it there. Do not waste anymore time organising things, remembering b'days, making people feel special or checking in on them. They are clearly not appreciating it. Those kind of gestures get forgotten in my own personal experience and often in hind sight, then attributed to others . Then you have to remind everyone it was you , did that.

Go to the socials, they organise amongst themselves, have fun , suit yourself and then leave , like an enigma. Do what adds substance and enjoyment to your life. Make other and many additional friendship
groups and have a full social circle /life that suits you.

When life starts squeezing lemon juice all over your current friendship group ...and, it will, you will be in ph neutral calm waters. Leave them to it and look after yourself. Reinvest all that energy and effort into you, your birthdays and your own special occasions. Fook em!

Is anyone watching Motherland on BBC? Just found it, binge watched three series and OMG if anyone hasn't experienced the school mum thing yet I would recommend it as compulsory training. I have met every single character in my school mum days and recognise myself in there too. Groups can be brutal. Ione to one friendships every time.

Absolutely. I wish it had been around when mine were small.

I see bits of Julia and bits of Kevin in me and even bitsvof Anne but I would really like to be Liz

Yeh liz didnt give a fuck. But i was a single mum more like anne. Looked down on and I cared. Bad combo. We had an Amanda at my kids school. The depiction of queen bee was excellent!

That's a good idea OP.

Friendship groups can move through cycles especially in the first 10 years or so after university so much can change as people grow into themselves as adults.

Thereafter I've also noticed with every major life event such as losing a parent, relocation, divorce, having multiple children, becoming very successful in a new role etc these things can shift dynamics again and there can be a re-shuffle of who is closest to whom.