Is the experience of being long term single SO hard to understand for people who have relationships?

[DivertedResources]

I 'see' my self esteem in parts. I'm very confident and skilled at my job. I am confident in my hobbies. I am confident in my daily life. I have no confidence in myself when it comes to relationships, because I've never had one. It seems like such an unattainable goal.

I'm the same with my happiness/contentment. I have a lovely life. I have enough money for my lifestyle, my flat is lovely, I am content. At the same time, I am horribly lonely. I don't have any particular goals to travel or pick up new hobbies; I just want a partner and maybe even a child.

I started therapy because I wanted to try and find some coping strategies for the loneliness, but the therapist is awful. All she has is versions of 'well, no relationship is better than a bad relationship,' 'you need to love yourself before anyone else loves you'.

Am I such an oddity than people don't understand me? Is this the problem?

Some of that advice makes me think of this song:

Many of the points you mention wouldn't apply at all to my DH or the other men I've had long term relationships with.

you need to love yourself before anyone else loves you

I absolutely despise anyone that says this. It’s total bollocks. I felt exactly the same way as you when I was single for years OP, and people said crap like that to me all the time. I’m not married and nothing about me changed - except my luck in meeting the right person.

The way you feel is totally valid. I’m not saying not to listen to advice about dating etc, but I also think meeting someone is a lot about luck. Ignore people in relationships who come out with patronising bullshit.

Don’t lose heart, lots of women meet their life partner in their 30s and you sound absolutely fantastic

* All she has is versions of 'well, no relationship is better than a bad relationship,' 'you need to love yourself before anyone else loves you'.*

^The same rubbish that is spouted frequently on Mumsnet. Anyway I agree with you OP.

Do you know how to flirt? To flatter?
Are you able to create an emotional connection by finding a bit of common ground?
All of this gets you off to a good start with a relationship or initial meeting

Maybe you have a male friend that you could ask to role model and practice these skills before you go on dates? It could be a bit of a laugh and you might get some interesting feedback!

Am glad I'm not the only one who thinks that that stuff about loving yourself first is bollocks. I agree with PP if you can afford it then better to look at your attachment style. Are there patterns that you are repeating?

It does seem to come down to whether you meet the right person or not. There's a numbers game it's often really hard to make real connections with people and sometimes you're in the wrong place and the people you keep meeting are the wrong people. I've lived in a few places and there have been those where I've felt integrated and those where my face never fit, my personality didn't change, the social environment does matter.

I agree that the bit about 'having to love yourself before anyone else will love you' is crap. But, I do think it is really important that you work on self acceptance and enjoying your own life to the full as much as possible. Your life is important, your interests and passions and life are enough as they are. Finding a relationship is more about sheer luck and whether you are single or married should just be part of who you are not your whole being. To me, any relationship should be the bonus on top of your already fabulous life.

My daughter has been a single mum for 12 years and I worry about who'll be her emotional rock when I'm gone so I do get where you're coming from OP. My only bits of advice would be to try and sniff out the tyre-kickers and don't waste time on them, and when you meet someone who you think is a possible be a bit flirty and see if they respond (get the balance right between being hard work and too easy). Be yourself but a put-together version of you - leave the onesie until you're sure! - and, if it's a serious relationship you both want, it is important that you can see each other fitting in with friends and family so if something is jarring is he the right one? 💐

You don’t mention friends at all in your OP. Do you have many? Just trying to get a sense of whether you need support in all your interpersonal relationships or if there’s something specific about how you relate to potential partners.

And that you have to love yourself first thing is bullshit - we’re all worthy of love whether we have good self esteem or not.

Look up Matthew Hussey. I found him amusing and interesting .

I was struck by the words 'I missed the boat' . I do not think you have missed out yet; far too early to assume this. I also advise against looking at attachment styles or therapy. By doing so you are assuming something is wrong. It can just be a matter of luck or waiting for the right person to turn up. I met the right one at 33 purely by chance married 5 years later.

Sorry to derail for a moment but please please please no one take that list from @OldWomanSaysThis seriously. Any man who needs you to wear hoop earrings, have sex by a certain point, be interested in this but not overly interested in that... seriously just don't. Walk away.

I have a lovely husband. I know lots of lovely men who are wonderful partners. NO ONE created and sustained a loving relationship by following "rules" like that.

OP- I can understand how hard and lonely it must be. I think I sometimes look at my single friends with envy at all their free time and their quiet houses and uninterrupted lie ins. I probably shouldn't do that as it may come across as dismissive. Some of your friends may be similarly misguided. Speak to them about how you feel, I would be completely sympathetic to that conversation from my single friends

I just wanted to say that i totally understand where you are coming from. I'm 38 and met my husband at 31. Prior to meeting him I had ZERO long term relationships. I dated A LOT. I could not fucking meet someone. It was so frustrating. It was depressing and there is only so much positivity one can have. You can be totally happy with yourself and you start to feel like there is something wrong with you.

Unfortunately I think it is a numbers game and OLD is fucking brutal. Ditch your therapist. She's an idiot.

I’d stop seeing that therapist, stop paying and find another one

What is your work situation like? Many single men?

Sometimes being at work can help as you can build a connection without dating stress

Do you fancy any you’ve dated / had a hood time? Eg flirted / got tipsy that kind of thing

I totally get where you're coming from OP. Yes, of course I'm happier away from my abusive exDH but at the same time I get lonely.
Yes, I've worked on myself, learnt to love myself and all that shit! I've a decent job, pleasant house, good friends etc. I've started a hobby but so far all the other people there seem to be in couples and it leaves me with the feeling of time filling.
I've also done meet-ups (it's a social group app thing) which has often left me feeling more lonely and OLD is grim.
Working in a predominantly female environment I'm unlikely to meet someone that way and my days of meeting guys at pubs and parties are long behind me (I'm in my 50s).
Friends are great for week nights and the odd Friday night or Saturday lunch but basically come Saturday night/bank holidays I'm on my own. I don't particularly want to go out on a work night but I do so as to maximise my social life.
I've had friends say oh I wouldn't mind being alone for Christmas / birthday/ bank holiday / Saturday night when they're in established relationships! How would they know? I've found that so dismissive and upsetting that I no longer mention how I feel to them. Whether we like it or not, society is set up for couples.
My advice is to find other single women to be friends with. This has been my lifeline. They get how I feel as they're in the same situation. We look out for each other and do things together on those lonesome weekends etc. However, deep down I would like to find a nice partner. Maybe I'll try OLD one more time in the future.
But OP, I feel for you. You're still young so go for single friends and maybe be brave and try OLD again. Zoosk wasn't too bad ...

I think you are right that people who are in relationships often don't understand long term singleness. At your age I had also always been single, no kissing etc. When I did meet someone I connected with he was surprised that I'd suddenly 'chosen' to meet someone - he had no concept of how you can want and even actively try to meet someone for years and nothing happens.
(Also, we met on OLD and the only difference to previous OLD experiences was more video calls before meeting because of the pandemic. I did not do anything dramatically different, although I had also had some therapy last year.)
In conclusion, you are right not everyone understands. You are doing sensible things to try and meet someone. It is not easy.

Hi op , I didn’t meet my dh until 37 and had been battered my OLD for years. I felt it really was a numbers game. I went on dates every week, most I didn’t fancy or they didn’t fancy me or they were really odd. I learnt to not waste time and move to the next one . I rarely took it personally, it’s like a sweet shop and some men ( and me) didn’t want to settle until they found the right one.
There’s nothing wrong with you , it’s just how it is.
Have you tried meet up groups? They might be hard at first, if you’re introverted, however, my brother is very introverted and enjoys them.
I’ve been single for 3 years plus stretches. You do get pressure and those around you never seem to stop talking about whether you have met anyone yet ( esp in 30s) It is hard. Before I met dh, I looked at having dcs by myself ( egg freeze/ sperm donation) I have myself until 38 to commence that. It relaxed me a bit. in retrospect I would have frozen eggs at 35.

Have you read about the cream of the crop women; bottom of the barrel men social concept? It says that often the highly educated, good looking women are the last ones to marry whereas the opposite is true for men. I got married quite young but SO many of my well educated, successful female friends were lonely for most of their 30s. The theory says that women generally want to marry someone more successful or better educated than themselves and so the higher up the scale you go the fewer men there are to marry.

I feel for you and dont think you need to change who you are ,or are doing anything "wrong" as it were .It is a strange anomly to me that in a western world of equal rights ,and opportunities ,we are still in a couples /family based world! You have not missed any "boat"! Maybe try MAtch dating again? At 33 you have lots to offer ,and many men in their 40s may be a better match ,more experienced (Sexually and otherwise)Also SP might be worth a shot Try and keep an open mind .Someone a little shorter ,more ordinary jobs ? may turn out to be nice down to earth sorts

I think what your therapist is clumsily doing is pointing out the risk of falling for narcissistic or abusive men when looking for a partner.

If you have a view of a partner and child as an end goal then it can be easy to be swept away by a man who might appear to want the same.

I read somewhere that toxic and abusive people aren't picky they just stick with people who don't challenge their behaviour.

They have a great dating thread on here, have you tried that? They'd be happy to give your dating profiles a once over for you and they're lovely people.

Sadly early stages on apps is all about small talk, you could always offer to meet up quite quickly for a coffee in public to sort of skip that stage.

Everyone gets ghosted btw, even the most attractive, but that's just a part of online dating these days.

Good luck

Well she is a therapist, not a dating coach. Her job is to help you find happiness and peace in yourself.

And in truth, i find that finding actual relationships is far easier now than when I just thought 'hmm I'm ok'.

Like something just clicked when I came into my early 30s and now, I love me. Like, I'm fucking awesome. So I no longer go into dates feeling like I have to prove something. It's purely to see if they suit me. And all of a sudden, relationship offers are in abundance. So maybe there is something in that loving yourself shpeel.

Find a therapist who actually listens to you and your thoughts and feelings.

You don't mention friends in your posts, and I wonder if making some new friends might help you fill your social calendar more so that you have less 'free' time, and less time to feel 'lonely' too. It's true that lots of relationships have started by meeting either accidentally (another friend brings a friend to an event etc) or by virtue of something shared accidentally (I met one 'long term relationship' from my past because my dog stole his sandwich in the park ! )

But to be in with a better chance of a happy chance, you need to be out there to begin with ? The more 'social' you are, the better.

You feel 'accomplished' in your career and financially, which is great, but maybe you need help in how you're 'seeing' others 'relationships'?

I get that you feel 'lost' and uncertain in the dating arena, and it's like that for everyone else too, believe me ! Just because you see 'couples' seemingly happy, it doesn't mean it's a true reflection of what goes on 'behind closed doors' (You only need to see the posts on MN to know that !)

Take the focus off finding a 'partner', and on to finding new friends for now. See the therapist, and enjoy yourself in the meantime.

Good Luck x

I have some friends, but no male friends. I have friends from school and uni.

They have all settled down though, so it’s very hard to arrange to see them, and when we do see each other, I want to spend time with them, not chatting to strangers!

I am friendly with people from work, but dating is v frowned upon and none of them are single either.

I do like myself and enjoy my own company, but after 17 years of watching every other bugger pair up, that’s what I want!

@DivertedResources can I ask gently whether there is anything else going on with you and in your past that is holding you back?

The reason I ask is I have two friends in a similar position to you.

My first friend (F) is female and now in her 40s, she has never had any sort of relationship or kissed anyone. F is a bright, lovely kind genuine person and attractive. I have known her a long time. Although I know that F would v much like to have a relationship and wanted to have children she also suffers from sometimes crippling anxiety, shyness and struggles with men being in close proximity to her. I have watched F interact with men over the years and where men have been interested she has (I think unknowingly) given off 'don't come close' signals with her body language. She is a very private person and I wouldn't want to ask her but I suspect she may have had some childhood trauma/abuse which has affected her ability to form relationships.

My second friend (S) is male and in his late 40s, he has had a few v short (non physical) relationships but been single for the vast majority of his life. He is intelligent, kind, family orientated friendly decent man. He has a mix of male and female friends, has travelled a lot, has a high powered job etc. He also wanted to get married and have children. However when it comes to relationships he is v v shy, suffers from anxiety and he has alluded to the fact he suffered abuse as a child so he struggles with any sort of physical or emotional intimacy. Like F he also gives off 'don't come close' vibes to women so women see him as a friend only and not as anything more.

This may not be the case for you but it is unusual for someone to not have had any relationships at all and so I wondered whether there was anything else going on for you (consciously or unconsciously). It sounds like your therapist is useless and you perhaps need to see a psychologist who can help you to explore why you don't have any confidence when it comes to interactions with men (whether online or in person) and whether there's anything else going on for you.

Other than that I think people do pick up on the underlying signals even if you're not aware you're giving them off and most men (and women) then won't pursue anything or 'friend zone' you. I note you say you don't have any male friends. Do you have a trusted female friend who would be honest who you could ask about how you interact with men that could give you some pointers? That might give you more confidence in interacting with men which is the first step towards potential relationships.

Good luck OP

@waterteaandwine have you ever thought of match-making your two friends?

I think to be honest the happiest single women I know are those who’ve done the marriage/very long term relationship/kids/family thing and realise that for many (not all I will add) that you are expected to turn into a cross between nigella Lawson/ Cinderella/porn actress/psychotherapist and it can get extremely tedious. If you haven’t had the chance to get to stage 1 , it’s easy to feel you are missing out and want what is the societal norm