Anyone else got a DM like this and how to handle

[Flowerfairy101]

I shall start by saying I love DM very much and she has been a constant source of help and support to me in my adult life, but her anxiety is driving me mad. She has always been incredibly anxious and risk averse, if she is anxious she gets shouty and will try to control situations so that the source of her anxiety is eliminated. Example being she tried to discourage me from buying a car with a larger engine because she thinks I'd be more likely to crash, discouraging me from buying a house in case the housing market crashes, telling me I should adopt rather than have a child biologically because child birth is risky. I can't swim, didn't go on any school trips, never been on fairground/theme park rides, that sort of thing.

Naturally this has affected the person I've grown into, I spent a long time being totally risk averse and saying no to a lot of opportunities but I'm trying to manage my anxiety and involve myself in life more, which has been really good for me. My mums anxiety has always made me feel like she doesn't have any faith in me to make good decisions myself as she's always checking I've considered the most basic stuff and I have low self esteem and don't trust my own judgement. If I ever try and address the impact of her anxiety on me, she rants at me that she isn't in the mood for this , that I'm being silly and basically tells me I don't feel the way that I do. It might sound like minor stuff but it is a constant drip drip drip of negativity and doom.

I have a 9 month old DD who has now become the target of DM anxiety. Its built up over time to a point where I'm starting to feel really anxious about DD myself and if I'm going to see DM will be thinking what to dress her in/take to feed her that won't attract any negative comments. Examples are, asking me if I've checked DDs food is cool enough, is the car seat I've bought safety marked , don't I think DD should have a coat on (12 degrees outside, im in a T shirt), doesn't she need her nappy changing (no, I've just done it), she's worried the straps on her high chair are too tight and if she choked she couldn't lean forward, and on and on. DD is cruising now and has had some tumbles, if I mention this to DM she questions why I'm not watching her (I am as much as I can but short of not letting her pull herself up, I can't avert every slip). Every comment made I justify myself as in the brackets, or if say, she questions whether DD should have a certain toy and I say "its fine mum" she will bring it up again more insistently or just remove the toy herself. I feel like the situation is getting worse and worse the more time we spend with her. If I tell her a nice thing me and DD have done, trying to get some positive reinforcement,
she will either point out the risks or point out something else I should be doing, eg. Told her I'm singing lots to DD, she tells me I should be talking to her as well or she won't learn to talk (obviously I do talk to her too!) I've nicely asked her to back off a bit, leave the worrying to me, enjoy spending time with DD as her grandparent etc and then when that didn't work told her its making me feel like a shit inadequate mum (I struggled hugely with PND and feeling a lack of a bond with DD which she is well aware of) but she just brushes it off or huffs off with a " well don't see me then " or "its just how I am".

I don't want to stop seeing her but I really can't carry on with it how it is. I dont want another 18 years parenting under her watchful critical gaze. Eventually its going to start affecting DD too. Hqs anyone else got a DM like this and what do you do? I try to brush it off but as above, she just carries on with her agenda. I can't see what else I can do but go LC which is sad for all of us.

I feel for you @Flowerfairy101 I think I'd reduce contact and hope that she might get the message but it sounds like she enjoys being that way...

My DM is the total opposite. I rang her for advice when ds was 6 weeks old and unwell(temp of 37.5 and distressed) to be told that I was a "neurotic first time mum who didn't know what I was doing" and to just put him to bed. Mil said the same. I told dh we needed to go to A&E, he had meningitis. I've never forgiven them or asked advice since.
Sometimes they can't help themselves but you don't have to put yourself in a position where you have to listen. I would give her a wide berth. That just sounds like hell.

This is controlling and emotionally abusive behaviour.

I've had great advice on here for dealing with my narcissistic DM. Someone in the know will be along to comment soon, I bet.

Her anxiety is her problem, not yours. She has no right to expect you to justify how you raise your child and certainly not to override your decisions on toys or anything else!

I'd drastically reduce contact if NC won't work for you right now.

Its so hard because I know she doesn't mean to upset me but then, when she has visibly upset me, she totally ignores it or blames me. I don't feel like that's normal behaviour, or very conducive to having a good, functional relationship with anyone.

It sounds suffocating. If you’re old enough to have a baby you’re old enough to do your own risk assessment. She can be anxious about herself but she doesn’t get to rule over you/ your baby because of her anxiety. I think you might need more distance from her. Sounds like she has you tied up in knots - but you’re an adult and you decide what’s ok for your baby.

Side note - I was never allowed on school trips because they were “too dangerous”, I thought I was the only one....

@Comtesse I share your pain! I'm early 30s so well old enough to manage plus have a responsible job being responsible for other people's children.

What @MeridasMum said is spot on. You don't have to put up with it. She's banking on you wanting a relationship with her. She's been getting away with it for your whole life.
It has massively affected you. It will affect your daughter.
Whose needs are you servicing by allowing her to be a part of your daughters life? Not your daughters. Completely your mothers. Don't allow her to control you or your child like that.
I've gone lc with my parents and it's the best thing I ever did.
They never ever see my son without me. My Dh avoids them almost completely. Life is great!
No patronising comments about my parenting/house/weight/work/life in general.
Give it a try @Flowerfairy101 you won't be sorry

I saw her today and she was clearly trying to restrain herself after our last conversation about it but she just can't, its like a compulsion.

This will start to affect your DD much sooner than you think. How old is she now? You need to set some hard boundaries. If she starts in, you tell her that you will not allow her anxieties to overrule your parenting, that you are perfectly capable of handling things and that if she does not stop right now, you will leave. And then follow through.

Each time she does it, stay away a little longer. If full no contact is the only way, do that. You seem to be working constructively on dealing with your own anxieties and self esteem as instilled by your mother - kudos to you. Now break the cycle completely for your DD.

Thanks everyone and @pointythings, that's a good suggestion. Even if DD didn't absorb the anxiety I don't really want her to be aware that DM is essentially undermining me and questioning how I look after her.

This sounds exhausting and so far from what you and your DD need. It's sad but you can't control her behaviour, so if she can't or won't control it, you need to see her less I think. It's hard enough to be a parent without your DM making you feel that you're doing it wrong. If you don't want your DD to be affected like you were, see your DM less.

My DM is not anxious but I am the youngest of four and still babied by my family. They have form for not telling me things that might "upset" me, even though I'm 50 with a job, house, children of my own, and psychologically the most robust of any of us.

So your mum has mental health issues, and posters are telling you to stay away, and punish her.... 🤔

Have you spoken to her about her fears? Does she see them as dehabilitating or irrational? Would she consider therapy or medication?

Perhaps her thought process comes from a deeper loss? For example when my brother died in an accident my dad became a bit more protective over me as well. I think it takes a very strong person mentally not to.
Are you the only child? Does she have a partner you can discuss with? I think the best thing is just to reassure and distract. It of course will take strength but hopefully it'll lessen over time

flowerfairy

You may not want to think she does this to upset you but she is and she does. She does this because she can and she has learnt that this works for her. She does not care how you feel about it; she's already said to you, "this is how I am" as her get out clause. Its not your fault she is like this; you did not make her that way. Chances are her own parents treated her the self same as you were and are now. Its no excuse and you were not put on this earth to be someone else's emotional punchbag or dumping ground for all their inherent ills.

You are correct; this from your mother is not normal behaviour nor is it conducive to having any sort of functional relationship with. You would not tolerate this from a friend and your mother is no different. Stop with trying to brush it off; it does not work and it gets you nowhere. Do not JADE your mother; i.e justify, argue, defend or explain your decisions. Instead further reduce all levels of contact with her as of now and keep your child well away from her because she will harm your child in not too dissimilar ways as to how you've been harmed. If a parent or relative is too toxic/difficult or otherwise too batshit for YOU to deal with, its the SAME deal for your child too.

Address your fear, obligation and guilt re your mother through counselling and also consider posting on the current "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these Relationships pages. Your FOG may well be as to why you want to continue to see her at all. You may also want to read "If you had controlling parents" by Dan Neuharth.

You do not mention your dad here; is he in your life now?.

So your mum has mental health issues, and posters are telling you to stay away, and punish her.... 🤔*

Have you spoken to her about her fears? Does she see them as dehabilitating or irrational? Would she consider therapy or medication?*

Read the OP, she has talked to her mum about it. It's not about punishment - OP's DD should not have to suffer because of her grandmother's anxiety and her habit of undermining her mum.

Your mother sounds like my SIL. Her mother was also anxious and controlling, and sadly her son (young teen) is also highly anxious.

Break the cycle, for your DDs sake. Limit the damage by limiting time spent with her.

@baileys6904 I've tried talking to her about it and I think she does know that how she feels and behaves isn't ok but its easier to ignore that than it is to deal with it. Siblings don't live in the same country so tend to tell me to basically suck it up as that's just what she's like and she won't change. I do feel very sorry for her because I know how debilitating her anxiety is for her.

@AttilaTheMeerkat my dad died suddenly when I was a toddler so that's no doubt where some of the anxiety over harm coming to her family comes from, and definitely where my feeling of guilt/obligation comes from. FWIW I know she was anxious as a child and pre him dying so it's not entirely linked to that.

Hi Flowerfairy,

For your whole life, you have been conditioned to accept your mother's behaviour as "normal" (or some version of normal). It is very far from normal, and has clearly caused you a great deal of damage. She is now minimising her behaviour, denying the effects it has had, and blaming you (in other words, using you as a scapegoat for her dysfunctional behaviour).

You now want to break the cycle, quite rightly, but you feel really guilty. This is known as FOG - Fear, Obligation and Guilt.

It's really important for you to know that none of this is your fault. You cannot "fix" your mother or solve her unhappiness. She will never change.

Please do try to reduce contact with her, and I mean REALLY reduce contact. Give yourself some space to think about what you want. Set your boundaries and stick to them. Protect your child from her influence.

You'll probably find that this is the start of a long road to freedom from your mother's disordered behaviour.

There is a whole community on MN who have struggled with dysfunctional family dynamics, many of whom have chosen to go no contact. You can find them on the "Stately Homes" threads. There's a lot of sage advice there.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4182916-March-2021-Well-we-took-you-to-Stately-Homes-thread

I would swear we had the same mum. It is honestly exhausting. I wasn't allowed on school trips etc either - I've dealt with it by consciously making the opposite choice I think my mum would make at various points in my life

I don't have any solid gold advice though. I moved away from my mum, so we aren't in each others' pockets, which helps. A lot of the time, I just don't tell her things because I can't be bothered with having to defend every bit of risk managed. I try not to blame her because I think her abnormal anxiety is a result of bad things that happened to her when she was a kid, but for your own sanity, you will have to put boundaries in place. Distance from her a bit, maybe explain how damaging it is for kids to not have the change to manage their own risk etc.

I am sorry to read about your late father.

The problem you have here re your mother is that she wants to further use you as a conduit for her anxious making and controlling behaviours. You're supposed to bend to her will here or so she thinks. You're the last one left around her too as your siblings now live overseas (it is not beyond the realms of possibility that they moved also to get away from mother). They have let you down too and have further adopted an "I'm alright Jack" position in telling you to suck it up (and no you should not suck it up) like you have no rights here in this dysfunctional family system. Its affected you your whole life and now she is further starting on your child by behaving in the same ways. She has no interest whatsoever in getting any form of professional help because what she is doing to you works for her on some level.

This behaviour from your mother started in her own childhood and her parents likely treated her the same as you are now. Instead of seeking the necessary help your mother has gone onto treat you this poorly, its unacceptable.

Do think about tackling your own feelings of obligation and guilt to her in counselling.

@AmandaHoldensLips thank you I'll take a look.

@TammyTwoSwanson exhausting is the word, I think you're right, just give minimal info. When I was learning to drive she used to come out with me and instruct me as to what gear to be in round all corners. You just never get a chance to think for yourself, and if you do think for yourself, it gets taken away from you by them asking if you've had that thought yet.

You have described my mum down to a T.

If I'm honest, my way of dealing with it is telling my mum to fuck off and not seeing her for a while. Covid has ramped my mum's anxiety up tenfold. I haven't seen her since Christmas and the impact on my mental health has been amazing. I have been able to control and limit what she does see of my life, so I don't get the 'helpful suggestions'. She is reluctant to start visiting again any time soon, which I'm please about. As horrible as it sounds.

I am torn about how I will progress with my parents if and when they crawl out of their self imposed lockdown. Because I do love them and they want to be involved in my DC lives. But I have been happier without them in my life. We will have to wait and see.

Anxiety is tough, but you need to put your child first. Ask her to keep her opinions to herself or reduce contact. For various (understandable) reasons I was very fearful of my child going on a school trip. Signed her up, discussed my issues with teacher who kindly sent me an "all is well message" once a day. Result: c old didn't miss out and I maintained my sanity.

@Flowerclock yes me too, problem is if I get angry and sweary then it becomes me in the wrong which is handy. Its just so infuriating being treated like a child/idiot when you know you're an entirely competent adult.

My late Mum was like this, even up to when she died at age 86, sixteen years ago.But all my life, well from being about 10, her anxious ways, did not rub off on to me. I always knew what she would get uptight and worried about, and just learned to do what I thought in my own mind, was the right thing for me.. I adopted this attitude all the time with her, as the saying Mother knows best, is not always true at all. She did temper things down a bit over the years, but she still worried about some insignificant things,which you can't do much about.

On the other hand,my Sister who died last year, when she was 72.was always a big worrier about everything, she got anxious about mostly anything and everything.. But she had a different temperament to me. so maybe she was affected by our Mum being like she was.

My Sister had a lack of resilience in life, and couldn't make decisions for herself, and would often go by bad or silly advice from our Mum, as regarding how to bring up her daughter etc, as in, don't let your daughter climb that tree,or don't let her stroke the cat next door,or touch any soil in the garden, and on, and on,and on. So all in all,my sister became a long time worrier.,instead of following in my footsteps.

You have to think of yourself and DD now. You tell her it stops and stops now. Advise her to get some counselling or medication for herself, but if this controlling behaviour (because it is) continues you will stop seeing he in person.

She needs to be on anti anxiety medication. My dm had horrific anxiety and the way we learned to manage it as siblings was by trying among ourselves to think what will it be this week. Sounds terrible but we turned it into a family joke and even brought our dm on it at times. So if eg a grandchild was going on a school trip we would all chorus together the possible scenarios before she could start and that would diffuse the situation. If you are an only child carrying that burden by yourself is tough going.
Encourage her to see a doctor as she needs medication which would make life for her so much easier as well as you. Tell her you will have to limit visiting if she doesn't get help as it's getting too much.