Anyone else got a DM like this and how to handle

[Flowerfairy101]

I shall start by saying I love DM very much and she has been a constant source of help and support to me in my adult life, but her anxiety is driving me mad. She has always been incredibly anxious and risk averse, if she is anxious she gets shouty and will try to control situations so that the source of her anxiety is eliminated. Example being she tried to discourage me from buying a car with a larger engine because she thinks I'd be more likely to crash, discouraging me from buying a house in case the housing market crashes, telling me I should adopt rather than have a child biologically because child birth is risky. I can't swim, didn't go on any school trips, never been on fairground/theme park rides, that sort of thing.

Naturally this has affected the person I've grown into, I spent a long time being totally risk averse and saying no to a lot of opportunities but I'm trying to manage my anxiety and involve myself in life more, which has been really good for me. My mums anxiety has always made me feel like she doesn't have any faith in me to make good decisions myself as she's always checking I've considered the most basic stuff and I have low self esteem and don't trust my own judgement. If I ever try and address the impact of her anxiety on me, she rants at me that she isn't in the mood for this , that I'm being silly and basically tells me I don't feel the way that I do. It might sound like minor stuff but it is a constant drip drip drip of negativity and doom.

I have a 9 month old DD who has now become the target of DM anxiety. Its built up over time to a point where I'm starting to feel really anxious about DD myself and if I'm going to see DM will be thinking what to dress her in/take to feed her that won't attract any negative comments. Examples are, asking me if I've checked DDs food is cool enough, is the car seat I've bought safety marked , don't I think DD should have a coat on (12 degrees outside, im in a T shirt), doesn't she need her nappy changing (no, I've just done it), she's worried the straps on her high chair are too tight and if she choked she couldn't lean forward, and on and on. DD is cruising now and has had some tumbles, if I mention this to DM she questions why I'm not watching her (I am as much as I can but short of not letting her pull herself up, I can't avert every slip). Every comment made I justify myself as in the brackets, or if say, she questions whether DD should have a certain toy and I say "its fine mum" she will bring it up again more insistently or just remove the toy herself. I feel like the situation is getting worse and worse the more time we spend with her. If I tell her a nice thing me and DD have done, trying to get some positive reinforcement,
she will either point out the risks or point out something else I should be doing, eg. Told her I'm singing lots to DD, she tells me I should be talking to her as well or she won't learn to talk (obviously I do talk to her too!) I've nicely asked her to back off a bit, leave the worrying to me, enjoy spending time with DD as her grandparent etc and then when that didn't work told her its making me feel like a shit inadequate mum (I struggled hugely with PND and feeling a lack of a bond with DD which she is well aware of) but she just brushes it off or huffs off with a " well don't see me then " or "its just how I am".

I don't want to stop seeing her but I really can't carry on with it how it is. I dont want another 18 years parenting under her watchful critical gaze. Eventually its going to start affecting DD too. Hqs anyone else got a DM like this and what do you do? I try to brush it off but as above, she just carries on with her agenda. I can't see what else I can do but go LC which is sad for all of us.

Thanks everyone for your replies, there's some really good advice that's helped me get perspective. Also reassuring to know it isn't just me that's been in this situation and I'm not just overreacting. For those of you that have anxious DMs, do you find that they tend to fixate on minor or very unlikely things going wrong, yet when you present them with an actual real issue, they close off and try to ignore it? Example being, health issues, abusive partner , something it would be legitimate to worry about.

Not my mother but my SIL, she will talk and talk for hours about inconsequential shit she’s obsessing/catastrophising about, but when I have any real problems she goes silent (this is all over WhatsApp so it’s always obvious that my message is read and ignored).

This is definitely a thing.

For those of you that have anxious DMs, do you find that they tend to fixate on minor or very unlikely things going wrong, yet when you present them with an actual real issue, they close off and try to ignore it?

That's because it's not really about anxiety but control. She has no interest in helping you with or facing up to a real issue, all dances are to her tune.

I have similar too and it is exhausting. I dont know how to deal with it effectively though, I just muddle through as best I can.

What I think is interesting is that you haven’t followed her lead and that you do make decisions as an independent adult. I really commend you for that because I think to some extent, especially when we are young, we look to parents for guidance. And I agree that your own counselling might help in many ways, if only to help you understand that you are doing nothing wrong here.

I guess to a degree it’s also about what you say to your DD about her granny and how you need to protect her as you had no protection. Maybe that is the thing that will help DM understand that how she behaves is damaging and give her some impetus to change.

@Flowerfairy101

Thanks everyone for your replies, there's some really good advice that's helped me get perspective. Also reassuring to know it isn't just me that's been in this situation and I'm not just overreacting. For those of you that have anxious DMs, do you find that they tend to fixate on minor or very unlikely things going wrong, yet when you present them with an actual real issue, they close off and try to ignore it? Example being, health issues, abusive partner , something it would be legitimate to worry about.

I recognise a lot of what you say in my late mother. She was actually quite calm at the bigger stuff but would be extremely anxious and harraunging about any minor change and highly risk adverse, which led to my constantly questioning my decisions. It was quite wearing and when she was on a roll she could be unpleasant and rude.

What jumps out at me is one of the first things you said, that you love her and that she has been a constant source of help and support your whole life. From this I would ignore the ‘no contact’ posters. What I found helpful with my mum is avoiding topics of contention and not engaging in conversations when she started to nag. I found it helpful to not show I was cross (for some reason that spurred her on) but keeping a very calm voice and shutting down topics (I’ve made the decision thank you; I’ll think about that etc) and changing subjects. I don’t think people with these disorders easily entertain seeking help from GPs so I wouldn’t be too hopeful about that. What helped me was realising I couldn’t influence how she thought or chose to behave but I could control my reactions to her. It’s a shame because in many ways her behaviour meant I resisted spending more than a day at a time in her company and of course now she’s dead and the opportunity to build a better relationship has gone.

@Orgasmagorical

For those of you that have anxious DMs, do you find that they tend to fixate on minor or very unlikely things going wrong, yet when you present them with an actual real issue, they close off and try to ignore it?

That's because it's not really about anxiety but control. She has no interest in helping you with or facing up to a real issue, all dances are to her tune.

100% this!!!

Sorry I posted too soon.

It works for her to blame her behaviour on her anxiety. She has proven that she does. It get anxious about the big hitters.

This is coercive control and it works for her so why should she change it?

I’d rid yourself of the ‘she doesn’t know what she’s doing’ she clearly does as you’re punished with silent treatment for speaking up.
I’d go very low contact, do not feel obliged because she’s your mother, why should you accept intolerable behaviour? would she accept it from you?
She needs professional help.
I’ve been NC for 16 years, abusive narcissist, never regretted a day.

Yes I think it is control as well because some of the comments she makes are designed to try and make me do or stop doing things she 'just doesn't like ' so " i think you've gone a bit far with your eyebrows " or "your hair is much nicer as your natural colour, i don't understand why you want to mess with it ". Then food, for example she doesn't approve of white bread or crisps so when I had to move back in with her in my twenties I wasn't allowed to eat those things in her house, which is her way of making me do what she finds acceptable. Bizarre. I don't know where it comes from. I do make my own decisions as an adult but if they are at odds with her opinion I often feel really guilty and like I'm making a bad decision, even if I know I'm not.

Have any of you horrible posters thinking about the granny. How about she tries desperately not to say things that she know will upset you but also feels compelled to share her con

Sorry for break in post - share her concerns because you are both so precious to her she just wants you to be safe. I agree not normal behaviour but not coming from any place of abuse.

Try reading about covert narcissism and see if any of that resonates.... not all narcissists behave like Donald Trump, it can be a lot more sneaky than that very overt style, but still founded on “I know best”.....

OPs mother's behaviour is not done from a place of love, wanting OP to be safe and or concern, its done because she wants to exert control.
Its unacceptable behaviour and she does this too because she can and it works for her.

Her behaviour is extreme - anxiety because the high chair is on too tight or not wearing a coat is just ridiculous. I don't know if it is mental health issues that she needs treatment for or extreme control. Either way you can't help and you should definitely not let your daughter be dragged into this. You need to protect her from that.

I actually feel sorry for your mum - she's clearly got a huge problem with anxiety and has never had any kind of support or treatment. Not entirely unusual for older women - after all, it' sonly now that we're starting to see that mental health is a genuine issue and one that can and should be addressed. There's no doubt in my mind that both my DM and my MIL would have benefited from therapy and/or ADs when they were younger. But it just wasn't an option.

Having said that, her mental health is NOT a reason to be emotionally abusive towards you. If there's any way you could convince her to seek help for her anxiety by seeing her GP, I think that would be wonderful. But I accept you might not be able to achieve this.

IN the meantime, no, you do not have to put up with this kind of behaviour. Calmly but firmly telling her that you do not accept her over-paranoid view of things and sticking to it. Withdrawing when needed. Making it clear that you won't accept this around the DD. Obviously, sadly, you probably can't leave her with DD alone for any meaningful amounts of time. Ever.

@Flowerfairy101 As others have said, you are not alone - this sounds very much like my mum as well, and it's had a huge influence on my life and the decisions I've made. The biggest one being, she always told me the worst thing I could possibly do would be to become pregnant, and I'm now dealing with the consequences of that as a childless 41-year-old.

It's also caused a lot of tension in my relationship with my mum - we've had huge arguments and I've gradually increased the physical and emotional distance between us, not to punish her but to focus on my own mental health and live my own life. When we argue about her need to control me, I tell her how I feel about her behaviour and she never makes any attempt to change, so distance is the only solution.

I've found therapy useful. I am also very lucky to have a supportive husband. But it takes time. If you're looking for advice, mine would be to see and speak to her less, and stand up to her nonsense especially when it comes to making decisions about your daughter.

@Miller2021 I'm so sorry to read that, I know how difficult it is to go against someone who has conditioned you to view them as the oracle on everything. I agree that less contact helps, I kind of go through phases like this then I miss her and end up seeing and speaking to her more and it all starts to slip back to old patterns. I think for DD though I have to see it through and hope she can recognise what she's doing at least.

@Flowerfairy101: "For those of you that have anxious DMs, do you find that they tend to fixate on minor or very unlikely things going wrong, yet when you present them with an actual real issue, they close off and try to ignore it?"

Weirdly, my mum seems to relish having a real problem to tackle, she sees it as an opportunity to "mother" me. When I was a teen, I liked having her around in a break-up/grief situation, but it's too much now, she just tries to guilt me into letting her take control and infantilise me. I had breast cancer in my early 30s and had to stop her coming to my chemo appointments.

@Miller2021 sounds a bit munchauseny- my DM is a bit like this, if I ever showed any anger/stress towards her as a child she would tell me I'm just tired, or if I wanted to do a particular activity that she didn't like I would be told I didn't have enough stamina, very much an emphasis on me being weak, needing rest etc.

Maybe try giving yourself a mantra - "It doesn't worry me." Use that as your stock response to everything she says.

"Don't you think DD should be in a coat?"
"It doesn't worry me."

"DD will get too cold!"
"It doesn't worry me."

"I don't like your new hair."
"It doesn't worry me."

As a stock response it should both a) make these interactions really boring for her which is always off-putting, but also b) act as a form of positive reinforcement and reassurance for you in your interactions with her.

Your Mum is very likely not aiming to be controlling or abusive. That is complete balls. She is very mentally unwell. Obviously the effect on you is negative - that is true. I say this because I am the same as your mum. I am stressed about the welfare of my adult ds for every waking second. I cannot emphasise this enough. He is 26 and away with the army right now. But I have always been like this. No medication touches it. No cbt, nothing. Also tbh I don't care if I fall out with him, because his safety is more important. So I will still tell him about the risk even if I know he will shout at me or stop seeing me. He is also pissed off when I say 'don't forget your charger' etc but I still do it as I know how important the bloody phone is to him. I am actually much happier when he is deployed as he is now, as his is the army's problem now and I cant see the risks for myself. But as soon as he is back I will panic if he goes for a bike ride, drives or even looks sad. He may go nc, but he would be an idiot if he thought it would change me and it would be hard for him, because he knows as you probably do that I would die for him in an instant, happily. But honestly having him destroyed my mental health. It has never been fixed and I can imagine it ever will.

I'm coming at this from the perspective of someone that battles OCD and suffers from catastrophic thinking.

Because of this, I would advocate compassion. This does NOT mean blanket acceptance of your mother's behaviour in a bland #be kind manner - you also need to be compassionate towards yourself, and if that sometimes means stepping away for your own mental health, then you must do that if it keeps you and your child emotionally safe.

I'm not sure that terms like "narcissistic" or "abusive" are particularly helpful. It is absolutely "controllling" and it is not fair that you have to put up with the fall-out from her anxiety. Kindly giving boundaries and being very clear about what you will and won't accept is totally in order if you feel you have the strength to do this.

Her catastrophic thinking will be coming from a place - you've already outlined a trauma with the death of your father - and there have clearly been some sorts of messages going back further that have informed her thinking and why she approaches everything from a place of fear.

It's not your job to untangle this for her. You also do not have any obligation to put up with nonsense due to feeling sorry for her - but reflecting on where she is coming from might help you with framing her unhelpful advice

I can only speak from my own experience of extreme anxiety - your mother's experience may be different from mine. When I have been very ill with OCD, I have lived in a state of constant, utter terror and guilt and a true belief that something awful is going to happen and that I must protect people.

Of course, the irony here is that what those close to me needed protecting from was my catastrophic thinking.

It is my battle to fight as the parent - it's not up to my daughter - which means that I keep up to date with my medication. When I feel myself slipping I get therapy.

When I have suffered from catastrophic thinking, I was banging on about things because I thought I was giving essential advice and being dismissed without being heard. I think what I needed said to me was along the lines of "I have heard what you've said and taken it on board. However, please respect that as an adult I will make my own decisions" and repeat.

If your mum's anxiety follows a pattern of catastrophic thoughts followed by compulsive behaviour to neutralise those thoughts, it might be worth pointing her in the direction of the OCD UK and OCD Action websites. I believe there is advice for family/friends on them too.

It is not your job to fix her. She has to do that for herself.

I hope this is in some way helpful.

@MrsPsmalls yes I entirely agree, DM doesn't mean to be abusive, but she doesn't have the self awareness to recognise what she's doing and the effect it has on me. It sounds like you do with your DS. I think there's no harm in reminding othet adults of things if they're proven to have forgotten them before, so if I remind DP to pick up his lunch he might find that helpful rather than overbearing but its the comments based on no previous harm or seemingly on an assumption that you coulfnt possibly have considered all the risks that make you feel like your parent just has no faith in you to function without them. Then I think you get the throw back to being a teenager and striving for independence, and then the shouting/swearing starts. At least that's my take on it. I know DM would do anything for me too but it seems that almost muddies the waters in that I feel I have to accept her comments etc because she does so much for me.

Yup Servalan - a lot of that is true for me. Glad you have been able to address this to some extent.