Please help me understand my DD's wedding.

[Ophanim]

I'll try to keep this simple and include what I think is relevant.

DD is 22, met her fiancé less than a year ago, got engaged in February. they've been living together since October.

We live in DH's home country, my only family (parents, grandparents) are in the UK.

DD's fiancé is from a huge, ultra-religious family (double-digit number of siblings with a 25 year age gap from oldest to youngest). Although still religious he has left the church.

Apparently it's "their way" that they get engaged young and married soon after, the women generally don't work after marriage.

Fiance's parents not happy about them living together and his mother has made her dislike of DD very apparent.

DD and fiancé have announced that want to get married at our place in July.

Apart from the whole "it's too soon" thing, there are a lot of other issues that I'm not comfortable with. Loads of his family want to be there for the wedding, but with COVID restrictions we've said that's not happening at our place.
The biggest issue, for me, is that my parents won't be able to be there. As I've mentioned, he has a huge family but my parents only have two grandchildren.
I've told DD that I'm pretty upset they're planning on doing this so soon, knowing that my parents can't be there. She said it's ok, she won't wear a wedding dress and they'll throw a huge party where she'll wear a wedding dress, once my parents are able to come over. I said my parents are more interested in the wedding, than a party. If the wedding was to go ahead as they want then a lot of his family would be there as well as DH's family. Just my parents would be missing.

I don't understand the rush but she said it's how his family do things so i told her I'm hearing a lot about what his family want, but not a lot about what she wants.
I suggested that if getting married asap (no, she's not pregnant) is so important why don't they go off and do it quietly with just his two closest sisters and their fiances as witnesses, then we throw a massive party once my parents are able to come - an all or nothing scenario. she said She wants me and DH there.

She's told my parents and said my mum said it's ok, she understands etc but having spoken to my mum since then, i know she's very upset. i haven't spoken to my Dad yet (my parents are divorced) but I'm sure he's really upset too.

I know it's their day, not mine, but i just feel so upset (and actually slightly sick) at the thought of my parents not being able to attend, especially knowing they're the only ones who wouldn't be there.

I'm thinking of trying to talk to them both together and see if I can make them realize the impact this will have. Or do I just butt out and leave them to it, knowing this will have an impact on the relationship between her and my parents?

As an aside, DH and I eloped when DD was young so I know it may seem hypocritical. We were in our 30s and DD was with us for the wedding. No family were in attendance.

Ophanim: Ophanim Mon 24-May-21 21:47:06
Maggiesfarm that's great that the two evangelists were wonderful, but it doesn't mean they all are.
Just because none of the people you know got engaged, married and started a family very early doesn't mean it doesn't happen. All his older siblings are married. They all got married young very soon after engagement and started a family straight away with the women giving up work soon after the wedding. I did say in my OP that I can't find anything to back this up, but this is the way his parents have brought them all up, so this is what they are all doing.
.........
You misunderstood me or maybe I expressed it badly but it wasn't just two people from that church whom I knew, it was several. Two of them were particular friends of mine.

My point was that, just because people are Evangelical Christians, it doesn't mean they are beyond the pale. They may not be as bad as you think.

The marriage and child bearing customs you mention may be peculiar to this particular family, Ophanim, rather than the whole church.

Do you know them at all, apart from fiance? You cannot judge any body or situation on hearsay. Have any of them actually used the phrase, "Living in sin"? I get they would prefer two people to be married rather than living together, that isn't unusual even now, but the couple are engaged and getting married in two months so that won't be an issue much longer.

In your place I would be more concerned about my daughter marrying at 22. That was normal in my mum's day, not mine, and certainly not now. I'd be thinking that she hasn't had much time for being a happy, single young adult. However it may be the right thing for her and they will be very happy. Let's hope so.

Wherever they have the wedding, I hope all goes well and that you are reassured.

PS:

op: I'm not sure if this is the right attitude but I think his parents have already seen 7 of their kids get married, can't they at least step back for once for the sake of their future DiL's family?
......
I've just gone back and read all your posts to make sure I haven't missed any important points. This made me think it is your daughter and her fiance who now want to get married so why would the in laws step back? Their son and his fiancee want to marry, they are delighted. No doubt if the plan was to marry in a year, they would be delighted too but when the wedding takes place is entirely up to the young couple.

Something I had missed was that you met two of his sisters. I hope they weren't OTT and that you liked them. I think I'd want to meet and talk to the parents because at the moment you only have second hand information about them.

not read the full thread,
sadly i think this is where the maturity level of a 22 year old shows, not seeing the bigger picture.
i don't see that there is much you can do or should do but maybe when she's much much older you two can have a chat about it.

Maggiesfarm in my previous post i did say "This is THEM, i'm not saying that this is how evangelists live their lives, but it is how his family live theirs."

Whether it's true of others in the same religion or not, doesn't matter; this is how his parents are bringing their children up.
No I haven't heard any of them use the phrase "living in sin' but it's been very much inferred. The mother has made it clear she does not like/approve of my daughter since the very beginning because all their other married children have married people from their church and we are not religious. Before they got engaged DD has actually heard his mother say to him - in tears - that she wishes he would marry a [their original nationality] girl from the church. When DD has tried to make conversation with his mother, she's turned her back on DD and walked away. Meeting her once will be enough for me I think.

I must say, his father is very different. He was quite cold at the start but is nice to her and makes an effort to chat with her and make her feel welcome. Also, English is not their first language.

but the couple are engaged and getting married in two months so that won't be an issue much longer. and it very much feels like that is why his family are happier - not because their son is marrying someone they love, but because in two months time the "living together before marriage sin" problem will be solved.

His sisters were fine.

fallfallfall she's not a very mature 22 year old either which is also a concern.

As someone who also married the “no longer religious” son of a very strict religious family (with the wedding dictated by religious in-laws) I would advise your daughter to run fast and far. These secular men do seem to revert back very quickly to their patriarchal, religious values once they have a family of their own. Being outnumbered and having your life dictated by a bunch of religious nuts quickly becomes miserable.

Thanks for coming back to me, Ophanim.

Now you've clarified, they do sound a bit odd, frankly.

What is their 'home country''? Cultural norms vary so much.

I hope your daughter is OK, she hasn't really known the guy that long and you say she is not very mature for her age. Poor girl.

I don't know what else to say. As you are not happy about the imminent marriage, is it really wise to consider hosting it? There must be other places they can go.

@Ophanim

fallfallfall she's not a very mature 22 year old either which is also a concern.

I don't mean this in a nasty way, but that had struck me too. These just aren't the actions of a mature person with enough life experience to make a good decision on this.

Her willingness to just go along with whatever he wants and trying to please his family rather than valuing herself as an independent person whose thoughts and beliefs have equal place in the relationship is concerning and shows a lack of maturity/life experience in terms of conducting adult relationships. It probably also reflects what her life will be if she continues down this path - a non-person whose feelings are irrelevant to how their life is conducted.

That's not a foundation for a healthy relationship, let alone a healthy marriage. How open is she to discussing her under of what a healthy relationship / marriage looks like. (Like beyond a disney/romcom model of man sweeping off feet, woman helplessly moulding her life to him).

Personally, I think it shows that she is in no way ready to be marrying him or anyone, although I also realise that if you say that she will most likely go ahead to try and prove you wrong. (The narrative then becoming their romance against the odds...)

The other reason this concerns me is that she is the ideal target for someone who wants a woman who can easily be controlled, and coerced/forced/manipulated into fulfilling the second-class citizen role he wants from his wife. The evangelism will be leveraged to great effect to control her until she does not even recognise herself. She has already slipped within their control without being able to recognise it.

She's too lovestruck and inexperienced to see this for what it is. Sadly, she probably won't until she is in too deep to extract herself easily.

Whatever you do next, I think maintaining your relationship with her will be so important. If there comes a time where she sees that this family do not have her best interests at heart or that this is not the life for her, she needs to feel she can come to you without being judged/criticised, immediately being told to leave him, or hearing "I told you so". (Whether you actually would or whether she would just interpret it that way).

In a few years, with more maturity, confidence in her own value in a relationship and a clearer view of what life is best for her, she will probably be enmeshed with couple of children under huge amounts of pressure not to break the family up.

It's so hard when someone we love gets sucked into a situation like this, as we are essentially reduced to waiting to catch them when they fall and then picking up the pieces, rather than being able to do anything to protect them from harm at all.

maggiesfarm they are German, so not particularly culturally different although his parents hail from russia.

If she's really set on getting married then I do want her to do it here, i think telling her to get married elsewhere would make her think that we really don't care.

user yes, a lot of what you say resonates. She's had a lot of relationships in the past few years which could mean she's found "the one" or it could mean she's settling.
Personally, I think it shows that she is in no way ready to be marrying him or anyone, although I also realise that if you say that she will most likely go ahead to try and prove you wrong. (The narrative then becoming their romance against the odds...) exactly...

Ophanim
maggiesfarm they are German, so not particularly culturally different although his parents hail from russia.
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Thanks for coming back to me, Ophanim.

The evangelical church movement in Germany is very strong and very culturally influenced. That explains a lot about their attitudes.

I understand what you mean about preferring her to be married at your home, if she is determined to marry. I was thinking more about you being uncomfortable with the size of the guest list in view of Covid.

I do hope all works out for them.

My husband and his parents had a similar argument recently.

We live in the UK, his family live abroad. The plan was for this parents and little brother to travel over and isolate for ten days so they could attend our wedding. They complained that grandparents weren’t also invited and it was too many people on my side (my son, my mother figure and two friends). I invited four people as did my husband, but as he chose a friend over a fourth relative they threw a strop. They continued complaining so he told them not to come at all and invited three further friends instead.

Other than trying to reason with her to delay marrying until the covid mess is sorted and her grandparents can come i would caution you to be wary about strongly interfering because it's likely to cause her to turn to his family more, headstrong young people don't listen. It's concerning but she is aware of their lifestyle, and you have no proof that her fiancé will be encouraging her to give up work etc. Plenty of Christians divorce etc, plenty of non Christians marry fast.

I would be really worried for my dd.

Marrying into a very religious family that seem have a lot of say over their plans. The wedding being the first thing.

The mil doesn't like her and is being a bitch already.

Great. It looks really good.

What's the rush? It's nonsense this rushing. It's all about getting control over the young couple ASAP. Marry in haste.......

As for your parents not being to attend the wedding, do you think they all disguised their upset when you eloped, op? To spare your feelings?

It's a bit rich asking your daughter to show more consideration than you did.

What was the courtship like? Did he lovebomb her? He certainly seems to have made promises about housing.
What's his job? Family business?
How does he react to the idea of her working or studying? You have some control here as they want your property for the venue. You can invite them over and ask him questions for background.
Have any of the other 7 siblings ' married out' of the group? What happened to their spouses?
If the assumption is that they will have a large family I can see why they want to rush. At 22, if they want 10 kids, 1 every 2 years, then time is running out to start getting her pregnant.

Do you want your parents at your DD’s wedding as they don’t go to yours?

If you're hosting the party OP at your place I don't get why your parents can't be there?? If a whole load of his family are coming, and what difference does an extra two people make

I actually think it's rude of your daughter to not invite your parents if you're the one hosting the wedding ! It seems a lot.of.posters have missed this point. It would be different if it was a wedding with very restricted numbers(e.g. just parents and perhaps siblings) as then I would understand why your parents aren't invited.

@DateXY

If you're hosting the party OP at your place I don't get why your parents can't be there?? If a whole load of his family are coming, and what difference does an extra two people make

I actually think it's rude of your daughter to not invite your parents if you're the one hosting the wedding ! It seems a lot.of.posters have missed this point. It would be different if it was a wedding with very restricted numbers(e.g. just parents and perhaps siblings) as then I would understand why your parents aren't invited.

My parents live overseas. Travel restrictions mean they cannot attend for the foreseeable future.

PEOPLE! The reasoning behind being upset my parents can't be there has nothing to do with my own wedding, NOTHING! If I'd had 500 people, 5, or just not got married at all, I would still feel that same about my DD choosing to get married at a time when her grandparents, who she is VERY close to, cannot attend.

I find it odd that your main concern is your parents not being able to attend rather than your 22 year old daughter with mental health issues marrying into a religious cult and to someone she’s been with less than a year :S

You didn’t invite your own parents to your wedding so why is it important they attend hers? It’s not anyone “right” to attend someone else’s wedding, as I’m sure you know given you eloped, if they can’t attend it’s a shame, but she shouldn’t arrange her wedding around your parents. My fiancée’s nan can’t attend our wedding as she’s unwell and can’t fly, but we’re not going to cancel it and change all our plans just so one person can attend.

Well it has got to do with your own behaviour at your own wedding. Because it shows hypocrisy.

@DateXY

If you're hosting the party OP at your place I don't get why your parents can't be there?? If a whole load of his family are coming, and what difference does an extra two people make

I actually think it's rude of your daughter to not invite your parents if you're the one hosting the wedding ! It seems a lot.of.posters have missed this point. It would be different if it was a wedding with very restricted numbers(e.g. just parents and perhaps siblings) as then I would understand why your parents aren't invited.

Did the op not say that they cannot come because of Covid restrictions? I don't think it is that easy for anyone to go to America at the moment, the grandparents are no exception..

@user77hjjy

Só not only did you not invite your mum to your wedding, your mum didn't invite you to her wedding despite her in laws being there.

Your daughter is just following what you've done.

Exactly this..

PEOPLE! The reasoning behind being upset my parents can't be there has nothing to do with my own wedding, NOTHING! If I'd had 500 people, 5, or just not got married at all, I would still feel that same about my DD choosing to get married at a time when her grandparents, who she is VERY close to, cannot attend.

I'm sorry, but this is a daft post.

You didn't invite your own parents. Your own mum didn't invite you.

I don't think you can sit on a high horse and insist you're being hugely wronged in this matter.

Ah , the OP didn't describe the situation properly in her original post or the countries involved i.e. USA. If that's the case, the daughter's position is much more understandable.

Who knows when USA (who are much more stringent about travel than Eurpoe) will allow things more back to normal again. Or even if it does open, whether it'll actually still be too risky for the elderly grandparents to travel since covid situation is so fluid and things can get worse at short notice.

In this situation I certainly wouldn't be holding up a key life milestone I.e. marriage, for the sake of grandparents attending. The daughter understandably wants to get on with her life and her priority is getting married to the man she loves.

We are in a pandemic!! Weddings and all types of celebrations have been totally different the last couple years. People have had to get married with just witnesses, sometimes 6 have been allowed, sometimes 30. This Summer further restrictions may be lifted, they may not be. If couples want to get married they need to set a date and do it imo regardless of the rules of the moment. They could change at any point anyway.
Surely your parents must understand this? It’s
Not like they are not being invited it’s just an unfortunate pandemic we are living in. If they delay their wedding til next year what happens if they still can’t get over? Why should the couple put their plans on hold for her grandparents? I don’t get it at all...

Why is she getting married according to the wishes of a family that resents her? Is she being pressured?