Men and women can never be friends argument

[pipsqueakbollock]

I've been friends with a man since we were 16 now mid 40's. We worked together when young. Visited at Uni. Always hung out when home.

Met other halves (me first) at tail end of Uni.

Hung out as a four. Got married. Had babies and due to our friendship- still hung out but less regularly.

It dwindled. I know his wife didn't like me. I suppose I know he fancied me when young. It wasn't reciprocated. I like him, his family, even his wife.

Years pass. His wife had an affair. He took her back.
My husband had an affair and we divorced.

More years pass. We'd have lunch a couple of times a year. Didn't bring families together anymore as I was single, more recently he said his wife doesn't like me (code for she knows he used to like me).

More life passes.

Lately our paths have naturally crossed again - we work close by each other.

We have both been hurt by our spouses having affairs, yet we are not affair people.
But then there is the huge great big But.

I'm struggling and need a big fat dose of MN glaring. Give me your best shots

I can talk to him about everything except the elephant in the room. Which is an increasing tension. It isn't even sexual. It's more born of loneliness. Well, for me anyway. I know he is lonely in his marriage.

There are children. It's about 8 years until they all have left home. No way would I put mine through any more trauma.

Right. Got that off my chest. Might actually get some sleep tonight

I need to stop seeing him don't I.

@pipsqueakbollock

I know you're probably right....

There's none as blind as those that will not see.

@pipsqueakbollock

I've never considered him a back up. I am naive because I thought we could be platonic friends but we can't.

He was drunk last night and sent a message that crossed my line.

So I told him I would punch him and after I had punched him I had to stop seeing him.

I also told him (related to his message) he needed to get divorced and after that he could ask me and I might or might not say yes and it may or may not work out.

We won't fall out.

I'm now annoyed with him because I think my confusion is HIM crossing my boundaries.

I am glad I have posted about this. My life is a bit of a rollercoaster and I'm at a low point. A good dose of MN is always beneficial

I'm confused, you say your not interested in him more then just a friend yet also tell him (related to his message) he needed to get divorced and after that he could ask you and you might or might not say yes and it may or may not work out.

This kinda feels like you instigating a relationship with a married man.

100% agree with @Popandhop and @Onthedunes

You’re all over the place. Acing sort of faux offended that he’s dated being up his feelings for you, then telling him if he leaves his wife he can ask you out? Can you not see how this might be messing with his head? And if you’re so adamant you’re “just friends” why would you say you would continue seeing a man who has deep seated, established feelings for you as long as he tells his wife? If you do just want to be friends can you not see that is akin to emotional torture and stringing the poor bloke along.

In reality you need to cut all ties with him until he has decided what he wants, you’re a red herring if he’s not happy in his marriage but this “ask me when you’re divorced” spiel will be massively messing with this head and could affect his decision. If you were a true friend you’d understand that tbh.

Your "friendship" is definitely the reason is wife had an affair. I hope he blames himself. He's strung her along for an entire marriage whilst being in love with someone else but gaslighting her to believe it's just a friendship. I'd have been shagging about too.

The oh if you leave your wife out I may or may not going out with you.
The excuse to see each other as he’s helping your DS with something.
It’s a classic emotional affair.
Read some of the heartbreaking threads of women who have discovered their husbands have also been carrying on in such a way.
See some other friends or concentrate on making some. Why are you so invested in his parent’s need , you aren’t their DIL.

Parents news that should say.

If his wife even had an affair, probably a lie to make himself look better about what he's been doing for his entire marriage.

Men and Women can be friends but likewise friendship can blossom into relationships. I think you have done the right thing making it clear you have no interest in him while he's still married.

I'm not sure why some people are in such an uproar about his wife. They obviously dont have a great marraige. Its also not hard to believe to chosse to stay after the affair rather than divorce if his wife didn't want to leave.

How do you think he would take a honest conversation about the situatiom being amplified by you both being in low places? Then you can both agree that a step back to address these issues will put your friendship on track.

But this was never a platonic friendship he's just been a wasting his entire life (and his wife's) pretending to be the nice guy until you were old and desperate enough to say yes to shagging him.

The replies on this thread O_o its swung from him never having an affair to the affair being justified because he had a female friend just on this last page!

You were never ‘friends’ - it’s not a friendship when one party holds a candle for/ is sexually attracted to the other, regardless of how long they’ve known each other.

You know this really, yet would rather kid yourself and continue to have the ego boost of knowing that bloke is there as a fallback plan and reminder that you’re desirable to someone. All this faux-concern now is a bit 🤮

Also, this thread is nothing to do with the ‘can men & women ever be friends argument’ - it should be titled ‘can a man & woman be friends when one fancies the other, argument’... to which the answer is, of course, no.

Some posters clearly have no insight into how a person might feel if they had been gaslit into playing second fiddle to a "female friend" for their entire marriage.

I'm going to bow out of this thread.

There are so many of you projecting your own pain into this 'story' which just don't fit the facts.

My husband had an affair on me after 18 years. His wife after 16 years. We hadn't seen each other for 4 or 5 years at this time. There is no influence of me in his marriage.

I'm not some cracked up desperado and I like being single.

Meanwhile his marriage has descended further than an already low point.

I don't think we can be friends the same way we were when we were young.

I don't think we can be friends the way we were when we were both married and now I don't think we can be friends whilst he is married.

So many MN threads encourage women to leave unhappy marriages. This is no different. I said if you are not happy in your marriage then leave it. Dont be thinking you love me when you're married. Get divorced.

He said he has always loved me.
As if I'm going to take any notice of such a comment from a married man. Too long in the tooth for such nonsense.

As he is a friend, my comment of get a divorce stands. Regardless of whether I do or don't choose to spend time with him. Unhappiness suits no one. I don't think he would say such a thing unless he was deeply unhappy. Else he'd have been saying it for years. And I have been single for years without him saying it.

It has been cathartic but I can't keep justifying myself to those of you in pain which is no fault of mine.

Ok Pip, I understand but I think you feel because many of us have been through pain we are attacking you because of that pain.

Not true.

It is quite a separate matter, our pain only helps us to identify a victim's pain through empathy.
I do think it would be wise for you to cut contact and not be having conversations about love and feelings, you are clouding his judgment as he is looking to you as a back up plan and not making his decision based on actually being alone.

In essence you could be the one who has made his marriage look unsatisfactory to him.