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Original poster

Men and women can never be friends argument

90 replies

pipsqueakbollock · 21/05/2021 00:32

I've been friends with a man since we were 16 now mid 40's. We worked together when young. Visited at Uni. Always hung out when home.

Met other halves (me first) at tail end of Uni.

Hung out as a four. Got married. Had babies and due to our friendship- still hung out but less regularly.

It dwindled. I know his wife didn't like me. I suppose I know he fancied me when young. It wasn't reciprocated. I like him, his family, even his wife.

Years pass. His wife had an affair. He took her back.
My husband had an affair and we divorced.

More years pass. We'd have lunch a couple of times a year. Didn't bring families together anymore as I was single, more recently he said his wife doesn't like me (code for she knows he used to like me).

More life passes.

Lately our paths have naturally crossed again - we work close by each other.

We have both been hurt by our spouses having affairs, yet we are not affair people.
But then there is the huge great big But.

I'm struggling and need a big fat dose of MN glaring. Give me your best shots Grin

I can talk to him about everything except the elephant in the room. Which is an increasing tension. It isn't even sexual. It's more born of loneliness. Well, for me anyway. I know he is lonely in his marriage.

There are children. It's about 8 years until they all have left home. No way would I put mine through any more trauma.

Right. Got that off my chest. Might actually get some sleep tonight Grin

I need to stop seeing him don't I.

OP posts:
Original poster
pipsqueakbollock · 21/05/2021 22:58


I've been respectful of his marriage since the day I attended his wedding!

Notwithstanding he is a long time friend who is currently experiencing difficulties (the melancholy I referred to) that I have empathy for because he is my friend

I want to extend my empathy without getting caught in the tangle fire that could be an emotional affair....
it's unfortunate that the timing is off because I'm at a low point in my life. Arguably, it could be said he is taking advantage of me right now.

@Onthedunes - you've spectacularly missed my point.

OP posts:
Original poster
pipsqueakbollock · 21/05/2021 22:58

@bitheby your point is very valid to me

OP posts:
Onthedunes · 21/05/2021 23:27

Have I,

You said yourself the man fancies you.

chipsandgin · 21/05/2021 23:36

Of course men and women can be friends, most of my closest friends are male - probably a 60/40 split, plus my best friend is male and straight. He’s like a brother to me (& my brother is also one of my best friends). All platonic, nobody has ever fancied anybody - properly purely platonic love. That’s not what you are describing OP. In fact thats the kind of situation that gives platonic friendship a bad name...so I’d say that’s not your question at all really is it?

chipsandgin · 21/05/2021 23:40

& very valid points from pp’s who are bisexual - anyone can be friends with anyone irrespective of the contents of their underwear. It’s only when either you or they are interested in the contents of the underwear that platonic is off the table.

ChairmansReserve · 21/05/2021 23:45

@onthedunes is absolutely right. You're using him for an ego boost, you have done for decades. It's exploitative, destructive and grim.

BinocularVision · 21/05/2021 23:45

[quote CorianderBee]@user1481840227 really? Well I very much do not look forward to people abandoning me in my 30s/40s. I've been with my partner for eight years... I've never been an option for them. I'll be very sad if this becomes an issue later in life. [/quote]
It’s not in my experience.I’m 48 and some of my closest friends are male — some date from my 20s, but probably the closest is someone I worked with in a former job in my 40s. Im happily married, and he separated from his wife a couple of years ago, but it’s not made any difference. We’ve all managed not to shag one another.

user1481840227 · 21/05/2021 23:48

@pipsqueakbollock

 I've been respectful of his marriage since the day I attended his wedding!

Notwithstanding he is a long time friend who is currently experiencing difficulties (the melancholy I referred to) that I have empathy for because he is my friend

I want to extend my empathy without getting caught in the tangle fire that could be an emotional affair....
it's unfortunate that the timing is off because I'm at a low point in my life. Arguably, it could be said he is taking advantage of me right now.

@Onthedunes - you've spectacularly missed my point.

@pipsqueakbollock

But you are implying that there is something more between you bubbling under the surface, so that is the point where it stops being respectful.

He also told you that his wife doesn't like you, doesn't that imply to you that they have probably argued over your friendship at some point or she's jealous or suspicious? That's not respectful

Your thread title derailed the whole discussion, because it's not relevant if other men and women can be just friends, because in this situation there is clearly something more going on for you and you're not seeing him as just a friend!

MsDogLady · 22/05/2021 05:32

You are both being disrespectful to his wife. You are struggling and your togetherness feels good, but you two are being very selfish.

He fancies you and his wife is uncomfortable about you. Therefore, you are not the appropriate support/boost for him and vice versa. Your recently escalated exchanges of emotional energy and “tension” threaten the stability of their marriage.

I ask again: Is he being transparent with his wife about your meet-ups or is he being secretive?

Musication · 22/05/2021 06:34

I only have one genuine male friend, we were in the same flat share at uni and have always stayed in touch. I like his wife, I'm pretty sure shes not threatened by me but then I am married with 2 kids of my own as are they. If I am in their neck of the woods I will always get in touch with him and see if he wants coffee or dinner but my invitation always extends to his wife too. She quite often wont come along. It is very platonic and I can't imagine it being any other way even if break ups were to happen.
Otherwise, my friends are women.

Guavafish · 22/05/2021 06:51

He is your safety net and comfort blanket in relationship of life, hence why you find it hard to distances yourself.

You should distance your self from him and let him come to a conclusion about his marriage. Men don’t tend to jump ship unless there is another vessel waiting.

If your lonely and wanting male championship then seek it in someone not married.

RantyAnty · 22/05/2021 08:32

Your friendship with him has never been just platonic from his side.
You know that but in a sense you've pretended it was.

No, straight men and women can't be just friends. There are many many studies about it.

Men don't hang out with women unless they have attraction to them.
Women think because she doesn't have feelings for him and he hasn't made a move, that he is of similar mind.

I don't know why people continue to ask this. Look it up.The research is there.

faithfulbird20 · 22/05/2021 08:40

Yes he's chosen to forgive her. They're working on it. Don't ruin it.

SwimBaby · 22/05/2021 09:16

It sounds like you are in love with him OP.

bitheby · 22/05/2021 09:29

I don't think she is in love with him. Sounds like she's lonely and she is comfortable with this guy. I think you'd regret it. If you broke up his marriage and got together and then realised the chemistry isn't there you'll feel so much guilt you'll probably stay together out of obligation.

Far better to find someone new who you're totally attracted to and don't need to come to Mumsnet for approval of

ChairmansReserve · 22/05/2021 13:50

She's not in love with him. She knows full well that he has a thing for her and has used it as a backup ego boost for years. She also enjoys getting one over on his wife and feeling attractive. It's ugly to see, but not unusual.

Onthedunes · 22/05/2021 16:04

No, she not in love, she could have had him years ago if she wanted.

It's so easy to be friends with a male if they fancy you isn't it op, but very lazy, self absorbed and narcisistic if they are not available.
Do you think you're the only woman attractive enough to do this? no most women do not do this because they have empathy for their fellow women.

If op found the love of her life tommorow she'd be gone, out of their marriage tout suite.
And I believe yes many males and females in groups can be friends from school and uni but once you get older and you break away from the group and use that person in the group that always held a torch for you, it's wrong.

I would be appauled if my daugters did this for an ego boost, I know they would not, they respect the sanctity of marriage, I have taught them that.
I wouldn't be surprised if you are the reason their marriage has taken a nose dive, but by the title of your post you seem to wish to appear oblivious and ignorant of the fact you are hurting another female.

I know you will not like the turn this post has taken but if you think other women cannot see through you, you are sadly mistaken.
Altruistic my arse.

Original poster
pipsqueakbollock · 22/05/2021 20:48

@MsDogLady your post helps

He is being secretive to his wife. We may go for a walk at lunch time and I'm not interested if he tells her or not.
But we got a takeaway at mine and he didn't tell her.

Then we went for a walk whilst his DD was at an activity and he didn't tell his wife.

I am honestly feeling stuck here because I am quite fine for his wife to know - he is withholding.

I guess she has in the past been unhappy when we have met up.
He's not an affair type person (yeah I know who ever is right!) so him being in contact with me more than usual is that he's currently 'less content' at home than he may be usually.

OP posts:
Popandhop · 22/05/2021 20:51

If my other half secretly met another women behind my back I would class it as an affair, I think you know this though hence your reason for posting.

I would not be happy being a married man's secret

Listening to you though you are content with your relationship with him and do not seem to intend to change things as you just see it as a harmless respectful friendship so why post?

Original poster
pipsqueakbollock · 22/05/2021 20:54

Crikey you lot and your in love with posts have me chuckling.

I am not in love with him. I care for him greatly. He is not in love with me.

Life has been horrid to me in the love stakes - this isn't the time or place and I don't need to justify myself on this side but I am not looking for someone to love me. Far from it. I am far too independent.

My question stands - we are really good close and old friends.

We have never kissed or had sex.

He liked me when he was 16. That doesn't mean he likes me now.

I have had lunch with him 3-4 times a year minimum, at most 10 times.

I've seen him twenty times in last two months.

He isn't telling his wife.

I don't know whether to continue in the exact same way I have always spent time with him or not.

I am genuinely confused

OP posts:
Onthedunes · 22/05/2021 21:00

Phone his wife up, ask her, I'm sure she'll press pause cause at the moment she listening to 'Jolene' by Dolly Parton.

You just don't get it do you.

SwimBaby · 22/05/2021 22:18

Leave the guy alone.

user1481840227 · 23/05/2021 03:43

My question stands - we are really good close and old friends.

But you've also spoken about the building tension and said We have both been hurt by our spouses having affairs, yet we are not affair people.
But then there is the huge great big But.

So it's not just more than friends, you are actually considering the notion of something happening between the two of you.

So it's not just a friendship at all.

user1481840227 · 23/05/2021 03:43

not just friends, I meant!

Lex345 · 23/05/2021 07:51

Firstly you are right OP-it is him withholding the information from his wife that you are meeting up and of course that is wrong of him. But you know he is withholding it-and that makes you complicit in the deceit. If the two of you are such good friends and it is purely platonic there is no possible reason for him to hide spending time with you. Hiding it makes it look like there is something going on.

Secondly, have you considered that this man may be doing this as a reaction to his wife's affair? He may be seeking an affair himself to "even" up, he might be doing it to make her jealous or it might be completely subconsciously. Don't become a pawn in someone else's relationship.

I cannot see this ending well for anyone unless some boundaries and honesty are reestablished. He should not be hiding you from his wife and you shouldn't encourage him to, actively or passively. If you are just friends, then be friends. But openly.

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