Is this a kind of abuse or should I let this go?

[NYCDeli]

Hi,

Not really sure where to start here without going on and on, but I think I need some clarity and sort of need to know what to do next?

DP and I together for many years, we own a home together and we are parents. I'm coming towards the end of IVF treatment, embryo transfer is scheduled in the next month as i'd desperately like another baby.

I've used to work, have some of my own savings. I was a freelancer, doing fairly well for myself but unfortunately the work has dried up so i'm sort of a stay at home mum now (hate it, feel so vulnerable) Due to feeling so vulnerable I decided to retrain, so that's taking up a lot of my time. I'm close to qualifying and then will set up my own business - but I know this will take time and energy before I see great rewards, so it'll be a while before i'm earning, particularly as I want another child, so that will delay me a bit.

DP has his own Company, he earns good money. We don't share a bank account but he takes care of me financially. He pays for everything, but I do use my own savings occasionally too.

He's a great dad, hands on, but I do the lion's share, as well as helping him with his company and studying.

I just wanted to give some background before I go on.

Basically, he doesn't like me. It makes me feel so sad to type this because he's so brutal with his words.

I will hold my hands up and say i'm no angel. Infertility takes its toll and i've been a hormonal mess at times. I've been at this on and off for 6 years and sometimes I go scatty off the medication. I know i've not been the easiest person to live with at times but i'm really working on this and have made some major improvements. I've learned to sort of keep my feelings to myself as much as I can, because to be honest he's not very supportive and then if I get upset he erupts.

There's our problem - he erupts. If i'm having a bad day, or I have a moan, or I say something he doesn't agree with he just SCREAMS at me. His voice is so loud. The whole street must hear him. I feel like I can't be honest with my feelings because of his reaction.

The insults just roll off his tongue. The venom he spews is shocking. He's says things that are incredibly hurtful and very immature such as...

"You fat, saggy c*nt"
"I don't love you, I never have"
"You've ruined my life. If I never met you I wouldn't be living here, I'd be traveling the world"
"You're a shit mum"
"Look at the state of you, you are a fat mess"
"You will never be as good as me, look at the work you've put in over the years and you have nothing to show for it - ha"
"You're a bum. I pay for your entire life, you're a joke"
"You'll never have the success I have, you'll always be beneath me"

Honest to God, these are things he says regularly in an argument.

If I get upset and cry, he mimics me, tells me he has no sympathy for me and that i'm pathetic etc...He also often says derogatory things about my family during an argument. It's incredibly immature.

I've lost it this morning. I was crying and he was mimicking me and I just saw red. I flew at him. I have smashed my coffee machine up and just absolutely lost it. I said some terrible things in retaliation. Bare in mind i'm knee deep in IVF meds so this will play a part, but i'm also sick of being spoken to this way, I have to react if i'm hurt this deeply. I need him to see what he's doing to me. I need him to change. It's so immature and so nasty, and his voice is so loud.

In a nutshell, if I get stressed, or angry, or upset, instead of supporting me he just goes ape shit. His reaction to me is extreme, it's not normal. I always ask him to lower his voice, but he won't. Sometimes i'll then scream back when I can't take anymore, not all of the time, but sometimes - I then instantly regret it.

The thing is, i'm sort of in a very vulnerable position. I am not earning money. I couldn't afford to go and rent a place. I have no income yet, and my savings would last all of 3 months. We are about to start a double extension on our house and everything is just stressful right now.

I sort of don't know if this is some kind of abuse? I know it's wrong. I know if my children were spoken to like this, or spoke to their partner like this that I would be heartbroken, but I don't know if this is classed as some kind of mental abuse because I can often hold my own and I can be difficult to live with sometimes.

If this is abuse, well, what can I do? I have nowhere else to go and it'll be a while before i'm earning decent money.

I do love him, and everyone thinks he's a fantastic guy, he has many amazing qualities but the top and bottom of it is, is that he will always speak to me this way. He never shows any remorse. He obviously doesn't have any respect for me and things escalate VERY quickly, because of him, he escalates them. He won't talk calmly to me, no matter how many times I ask him to.

I honestly don't know what to do and would really appreciate outsiders looking in to tell me what this looks like and what (if anything) I can do?

I had fertility issues. I also have people close to me who went through ivf etc as they felt compelled to pursue the dream, it’s a chance. It’s all encompassing.
I can’t say that I fully understand someone’s desire for another child so strong that they willingly decide to stay with an abusive man to achieve that dream when there is already a child in the mix. One child already acknowledging this is how parents interact.
Children absorb far more than we give them credit for. You want two children to absorb it for your desire to be a mum. He’s unlikely to change, they rarely do.

It's almost funny that you've said "if this is abuse.." .... If?!

If your mate or sister 's partner was saying things like that and behaving like that to her, what would you thinking was?

He's extremely abusive.

And as for it being him not "liking" you - a decent person could have fallen out of love with, not be in love with, not "like" a partner but they wouldn't be saying things like that. Those are really disgusting and a reflection of his character.

Don’t have any more children
He isn’t even kind to you
Leave him

You do know that all you have to do is pack enough clothes for a few days for yourself and daughter and drive or train to your nearest family member. And stay there until you get your head sorted on this.

It's as simple as packing a bag but saying you're going to the recycling station/bin in your town or city or where you normally recycle unwanted clothes etc

Get a drive thru for dinner and keep driving until you are somewhere safe. Nothing else matters here.

So cruel to bring another child into this

This guy is an evil, sick narcissistic abuser. Please stop saying he is a good father, because a good father would not treat their children's mother in the way he treats you. I can't believe you have allowed this to go on for fear of being alone. He and his business and his money are just not worth it.

You need to take care of you and your children and get the hell out. I don't have children but I do have experience of being with a partner who did this kind of thing to me day in, day out so I required counselling and therapy. He beat me up and raped me, too. He did exactly the same things - mimicking, goading so I hit back and then called me a headcase, slagging off my family, telling me I was thick, stupid and would be nothing without a catch like him.

I thank Christ that I never had children.

I don't think you love him, not really. I think you are desperate to make it work because of the investment you've put in so far and to make it not have been wasted time.

And no, he does NOT have any amazing qualities, never mind many. You really need to take those rose tinted specs off and stop being an apologist just because he's the father of your children. He's a terrible person and you need to be away from him.

Take advantage of all the good advice on here and get the support you need to end it and quick. I wish you well.

You've been trying to have a baby for 6 years with a man who treats you like shit
Why?
Why haven't you accepted the blessings you have in life and got you and your children away from him already? Why are you so fixated on another baby at the expense of everything?
It would be utterly insane to have another baby with him. Yes of course women leave abusive men and parent alone but that completely different to choosing to have a baby with an abuser while also planning to leave. Madness.

Of course it's abuse- verbal and emotional/psychological.

There's a high risk he'll eventually be the same to your DC. But even if he stops at 'only' abusing you directly, that is still abuse of your DC as it will have effects on you.

I've never ran a house on my own. I've never needed to worry about surviving on 1 income. It feels so daunting.

It's ok I promise- most of us manage it at some point. Even I manage it, though I have a severe mental health disability.

I bet you already do a lot of the home admin and stuff.

Are you essentially using him to cover the IVF costs and sperm donation?

As much as it must be agonising to give up on your dream of a larger family, you surely must see that you are talking about this situation from an unhealthy and potentially (& understandably) obsessive desire to ‘complete’ your family, irrespective of the future damage your decision is going to inflict on your children, your future grandchildren....

YOU can be the one to stop this damage at THIS generation.

Or YOU can be the one that looks away and instead prioritises your life goals.

The choice is yours.

Once you can ditch the dominant idea of WHAT OTHERS WILL THINK if u leave him, then you'll actually be able to visualise the freedom and peace you'll have in your daily life.

Your choices won't be questioned, your home will be quiet, you will be able to breathe again. Can you try and imagine that?

Focus on those key things and think that they are so close to you now.

Your future and your daughter's future can be peaceful.

Build it up again.

Build something new with her.

DONT let this abuser shorten your life and damage your health.

Tbh you're both as bad as one another in some respects. Bringing another child into this mess is unacceptable on both of your behalf's. You can't be screaming and smashing up coffee machines, and have your husband refer to you in those awful terms and honestly think that's acceptable for your dd?
Your husband is a horrible abusive man, but you are being beyond unreasonable to be
A) putting up with this and acting this way in front of your DD.
B) planning another child. You said above why should you miss out because he can't behave? Why should you bring an innocent baby into a screaming mess. It's awful. Focus on getting the help you need rather than having another baby. Your poor DD.

I can't imagine how over whelming all this must be for you. I was in a similar relationship but without the complications of infertility.

My ex had me ground down I felt I was protecting the children by micro managing him and his moods. I gave him complete free reign of what and how he spent his time.

He had no respect for me. I was a complete walk over and the more I gave the less he respected me.

He controlled the whole house. Not always with his temper and shouting. Just a look or a tut had us all kept in our place. The kids saw it and felt it. And still now when they see him know they have to behave in a certain way otherwise daddy gets angry.

I was never leaving him. No matter how badly he behaved I wanted to have the 'family' thing. I just had to try harder and be better then he would love me and value me. He got me right where he wanted. I never challenged him or questioned him. He went out did what he wanted. And spent what he wanted on him without any consideration to the family.

He left 3 years ago now for ow. I knew she was involved but turned a blind eye. How low must my self esteem be for that to be ok? I was beside myself for far too long. Felt incompetent without him.

As time has passed I see him and the relationship for what it was. Abusive. I deserve so much better and know I'm setting my children a much better example by being a single strong independent women. And I want that to be my legacy to them. I learnt from my mother who is subservient.

I never thought it was that bad. I never thought I would be ok on my own. But I'm doing just fine. Money is tight but I make it work. He does everything he can to avoid paying child support because I don't take any of his shit anymore and this is his way of getting back at me. I don't demand or make a fuss. I refuse to engage. And he hates it. He is nothing to me now. After he spent so long on that pedal stool it was a long way for him to fall.

I could go on. But you get the picture. You deserve so much better. I won't even entertain a relationship unless it is healthy and respectful. (Think I might die alone waiting). But that's ok. I'm happy now than I have ever been. And my children have a safe happy calm home.

Minus the IVF I could have written your post. It took a long time to conceive DS. I always wanted 2 or 3 kids but exH changed once I was pregnant. In hindsight the warning signs were there from the beginning but I chose to ignore them. It only got really awful once I was "trapped". The screaming, rampaging round the house, the awful insults and gaslighting.

I stayed till DS was 3.5, knowing if I left I was giving up the chance of another child because of my age. By that point he was copying his dad and screaming in my face if I said "no" to him. Embarrassingly I only left because I found out about OW. Until that point I was determined to make it work even though I was a shadow of myself and barely holding on it together.

It's 3 years since I filled the car with child, cat and as many clothes and toys as it could hold. He put me through hell via the courts but I got there in the end. Honestly, not a day goes by when I'm not thankful I had the guts and support to leave. My flat is small but it's mine and I control the atmosphere. My career has taken off now I'm able to focus at work. DS seems to be doing OK. The future looks bright.

Leave now.

It's not selfish to leave and raise your children alone, it is selfish to stay! I was in your situation a while back, vile insults and everything was my fault, like you. I didn't have any savings as he controlled all the money, but I got myself a part time job and my own bank account. He made my mind up when he started his usual tirade of abuse - then punched me in the face, in front of my DC's, knocking me out. That was the first and last time, I couldn't let them think that was normal behaviour. It was hard but I left him, I got my sanity and life back. Hope you can sort something out.

I think some people are being quite harsh with you OP because they can see something that you haven't quite accepted yet.

I wouldn't have said my childhood was abusive but my parents had horrible screaming rows often late at night when I was in bed. They would shout and scream in the kitchen which was the furthest room from my bedroom but it would still wake me up and I would lie in bed frozen with fear, for hours. It never leaves you OP. I can't stand conflict, raised voices, to this day I am a dreadful people pleaser constantly worried I will trigger an unpleasant response from people. It's affected my whole life to one degree or another and I know I have been relatively lucky. I am very worried for your children.

Where is your dd
When he is screaming at you
And you are smashing coffee machines?
It s not a good life for your dd

You are actually rewriting what's happening in order to have excuses to stay with him. It's clear that if he's shouting in your face so loud that half the street must hear - your DC has heard it too.
You say you do most of the household stuff and help with his business, and say you feel financially insecure. This is how he wants you to feel, he would of married you after all these years if he was really up for sharing. Somehow, you are hankering after being even more financially vulnerable by having another child - by someone who doesn't even like you - eugh, that is actually quite sad and grim.
Stop the house extension before it starts, force the sale and take half of the equity, that is your best option. You are not making the best environment for the DC you have already. There's a couple of women on here accepting any crap treatment, just to fill a void they feel, mindboggling the lengths some will go to to stand by their man.
He''s right in that he never loved you, he lost respect for any woman when he realised his mother preferred his brother, it's not personal. He's not going to change for the better, likely worse as time goes on.

Goodness. I'm shocked by how he speaks to you - and I've been on here for some time so am not easily shocked.

It's APPALLING. Incredibly abusive. Please don't have another baby with this man. Take your existing child away from this environment and don't look back. Horrendous situation to be in

@NYCDeli

Leave him now.

Yes, this is abuse.

You're clearly an intelligent and capable woman. However, your husband's psychological abuse has, understandably, skewed your thinking about your situation.

Your husband manipulates, humiliates and degrades you. There's nothing you can say that will neutralise that in the mind of a reasonable person.

Please, please, please make a record of what's happening. You'll kick yourself if you decide to leave and have to rely on only your word to advocate for, and protect, yourself and your children. One of the best things you can do is ask your neighbours to call the police whenever they hear him shouting. I understand this might seem unfathomable, and embarrassing, to you right now, but keep it in mind for the future.

I'm so sorry.

For a previous poster, some solicitors may do a free 30 minutes as a loss leader but not all. There is no right to demand it. They are running a business. Try demanding a free half hour from a plumber and see how far you get!

Let's for one minute assume its OK for you to stay until you have the embryo transfer, that you can grit your teeth and hold it together.

What if the IVF doesn't work - that you don't become pregnant ? Would you stay for another round to 'complete' your family?

You have a responsibility to the child / children you actually have. To keep them safe. I know this sounds harsh but staying in this toxic environment for the chance of a pregnancy, now that is selfish.

You are in an abusive relationship and your children will know what's going on. I can still remember my parents very occasionally arguing and it used to upset me so much - please don't fool yourself they don't know. They know.

I feel sorry for your children caught up in this shit show.

OP, your DP has narcissistic personality disorder. This is your “light bulb moment”. There are lots of forums and advice websites online, eg outofthefog.website/ This is not about you, but about whether you want your DD to grow up in a hostile abusive environment devoid of love, or in a safe happy love-filled home with a single parent. No one who truly knows what is going on would criticise you for leaving and it’s quite likely your family and friends are desperate for you to leave, but don’t feel they can say anything!