Is this a kind of abuse or should I let this go?

[NYCDeli]

Hi,

Not really sure where to start here without going on and on, but I think I need some clarity and sort of need to know what to do next?

DP and I together for many years, we own a home together and we are parents. I'm coming towards the end of IVF treatment, embryo transfer is scheduled in the next month as i'd desperately like another baby.

I've used to work, have some of my own savings. I was a freelancer, doing fairly well for myself but unfortunately the work has dried up so i'm sort of a stay at home mum now (hate it, feel so vulnerable) Due to feeling so vulnerable I decided to retrain, so that's taking up a lot of my time. I'm close to qualifying and then will set up my own business - but I know this will take time and energy before I see great rewards, so it'll be a while before i'm earning, particularly as I want another child, so that will delay me a bit.

DP has his own Company, he earns good money. We don't share a bank account but he takes care of me financially. He pays for everything, but I do use my own savings occasionally too.

He's a great dad, hands on, but I do the lion's share, as well as helping him with his company and studying.

I just wanted to give some background before I go on.

Basically, he doesn't like me. It makes me feel so sad to type this because he's so brutal with his words.

I will hold my hands up and say i'm no angel. Infertility takes its toll and i've been a hormonal mess at times. I've been at this on and off for 6 years and sometimes I go scatty off the medication. I know i've not been the easiest person to live with at times but i'm really working on this and have made some major improvements. I've learned to sort of keep my feelings to myself as much as I can, because to be honest he's not very supportive and then if I get upset he erupts.

There's our problem - he erupts. If i'm having a bad day, or I have a moan, or I say something he doesn't agree with he just SCREAMS at me. His voice is so loud. The whole street must hear him. I feel like I can't be honest with my feelings because of his reaction.

The insults just roll off his tongue. The venom he spews is shocking. He's says things that are incredibly hurtful and very immature such as...

"You fat, saggy c*nt"
"I don't love you, I never have"
"You've ruined my life. If I never met you I wouldn't be living here, I'd be traveling the world"
"You're a shit mum"
"Look at the state of you, you are a fat mess"
"You will never be as good as me, look at the work you've put in over the years and you have nothing to show for it - ha"
"You're a bum. I pay for your entire life, you're a joke"
"You'll never have the success I have, you'll always be beneath me"

Honest to God, these are things he says regularly in an argument.

If I get upset and cry, he mimics me, tells me he has no sympathy for me and that i'm pathetic etc...He also often says derogatory things about my family during an argument. It's incredibly immature.

I've lost it this morning. I was crying and he was mimicking me and I just saw red. I flew at him. I have smashed my coffee machine up and just absolutely lost it. I said some terrible things in retaliation. Bare in mind i'm knee deep in IVF meds so this will play a part, but i'm also sick of being spoken to this way, I have to react if i'm hurt this deeply. I need him to see what he's doing to me. I need him to change. It's so immature and so nasty, and his voice is so loud.

In a nutshell, if I get stressed, or angry, or upset, instead of supporting me he just goes ape shit. His reaction to me is extreme, it's not normal. I always ask him to lower his voice, but he won't. Sometimes i'll then scream back when I can't take anymore, not all of the time, but sometimes - I then instantly regret it.

The thing is, i'm sort of in a very vulnerable position. I am not earning money. I couldn't afford to go and rent a place. I have no income yet, and my savings would last all of 3 months. We are about to start a double extension on our house and everything is just stressful right now.

I sort of don't know if this is some kind of abuse? I know it's wrong. I know if my children were spoken to like this, or spoke to their partner like this that I would be heartbroken, but I don't know if this is classed as some kind of mental abuse because I can often hold my own and I can be difficult to live with sometimes.

If this is abuse, well, what can I do? I have nowhere else to go and it'll be a while before i'm earning decent money.

I do love him, and everyone thinks he's a fantastic guy, he has many amazing qualities but the top and bottom of it is, is that he will always speak to me this way. He never shows any remorse. He obviously doesn't have any respect for me and things escalate VERY quickly, because of him, he escalates them. He won't talk calmly to me, no matter how many times I ask him to.

I honestly don't know what to do and would really appreciate outsiders looking in to tell me what this looks like and what (if anything) I can do?

Why why why would you subject children to this? Why? How could you do that to them?

That is fucking horrific. Step up and protect your children by leaving. You are failing them right now.

You don't need him to change you need to get away from him. Of course screaming at you and insulting you is abuse and you know it.
Why on earth are you trying to have another baby with him?

I don’t think i’m failing my children, at all. This doesn’t happen around my children. I know not to open my mouth around my children.

Have any of you had fertility issues? Years of them? Years of money spent, heartache and stress? Have you ever desperately, desperately wanted a baby, wanted to complete your family but couldn’t? If not, you can’t possibly understand.

Countless women have children solo, or they leave a relationship that isn’t working. I’m a fantastic mum, he’s a fantastic dad (besides the way he treats me) So I honestly don’t think it’s the end of the world to continue with my IVF. This is my only chance.

I’m already tied to him. It’s not like I’m suddenly starting a family with him. I’m simply trying to complete my family.

I’ve had my eyes opened, and i’m so grateful for the responses, but with or without him I want another baby, I want to complete my family. I don’t need to stay with him to do that.

NYC

I have every sympathy with your fertility issues (I am subfertile and have been for many years) but he could well say no to IVF now or that it may not be successful. What then for you if that happens?. You cannot stay with him going forward at all let alone out of your innate desire to complete your family.

He is not a fantastic dad to his daughter if he treats you like this, not a bit of it. Women in poor relationships often write the "good dad" comment when they themselves can think of nothing else positive to write about their man. You write that "I know not to open my mouth around my children" - what message does that send your daughter?. She may be very young but kids even of a tender age are like sponges and absorb everything that goes on around them. You did and your DD does the same. She in all likelihood too hears her father scream and shout at you because sound travels.

Apart from your daughter how else are you tied to him?.

Your deluding yourself if you think it does not happen around your children. They live with you. They will learn to tread on egg shells and / or become him. I've experienced both. To deliberately inflict this on an unborn child is beyond selfish.

Tied to him financially, tied to him because we are joint parents.

If I had enough money, i'd leave today, but i'm trying to figure out how I can leave, when it's a while off before my business will be up and running. I'm certainly not on the bones of my arse, but I don't have enough to start a brand new life. I've just pumped thousands in to re-training and i'm so glad I did. As I say, it'll be a while before i'm earning again.

Is it selfish though to raise a my kids alone? You say it's selfish @wewereliars But how can it be selfish if I don't stay? If we can co-parent effectively?

I'm listening, I am, and i'm so grateful for the replies. I don't have to continue with IVF, I know that, even though i'm so far in, but it's not a decision I can make today. It means everything to me.

OP, please look at what you have written- why are you prioritising another baby and double extensions over getting away from this utter arse. He clearly isn’t happy with you and instead of doing something about it and ending the relationship is just taking it out on you. You really don’t want to look forward to 20
More years of this. None of this is your fault- he’s a c**t , but dont enable it by going along with ivf and extensions etc— get divorcing and take the cash—if you have equity then use it and rent if necessary

If you can initially put 6 months rent down from equity , you will be able to rent virtually anywhere .

OP I can only tell you about my experience, I don't know your life, only you do.
I do know from experience that the longer you are with this abuse, the more ground down you will become, the more damage any children living with it will suffer and the harder it will be to leave. This will be your children's normal, even you questioned whether it was abuse, when anyone not you can see it's dreadful abuse. Leaving is very hard, I know. The first battle is the mental one with yourself. Good luck x

@Ihatesalad I think you have absolutely hit the nail on the head when you say "He clearly isn't happy with you but instead of doing something about it and ending the relationship he is just taking it out on you"

I've been torturing myself wondering why he is like this, but I think it's as simple as that. He doesn't like me.

I like me, though. I won't believe any of his venom.

Thank you @wewereliars I do appreciate you sharing your experience. I'm glad you found the strength to leave. I want to do that too but it seems so scary.

I've never ran a house on my own. I've never needed to worry about surviving on 1 income. It feels so daunting.

He doesn't even like you, he treats you with contempt and your child will see this as they grow, its inevitable. This man doesn't love you. I'm sorry but you have to leave. Don't live your life in misery with a man who hates you.

It is daunting, but I am looking forward to a future, and am excited by that. I saw no happiness in a future with him.

This is your one precious life. Have another child on your own, but you must get him out of your future to have any chance of happiness. My ex thought I could never leave, I had to fight him to the bitter end.
I took it one step at a time. Why not get some legal advice as a starting point, then you can start to see a different future for yourself.

People are frustrated with what you are posting because they know that abusive horrors like your OH only ever get worse.

Why do you want to have a child with someone who has no respect for you or you him ? Bringing another child into this mess is irresponsible. It's when not if the relationship ends.

I don’t think i’m failing my children, at all. This doesn’t happen around my children. I know not to open my mouth around my children.

This is chilling. This is not positive and to bring another child into this situation is an incredibly upsetting thing to do knowingly.

You've assumed people saying that don't understand your fertility struggles but many of us do. And many of us are still waiting for one child and know the heartache of doing so. But it's your job to put a child first and your list of reasons you think it's right to have another child with him is all about you and not about why it's a safe, loving and stable environment for another child. Because it isn't that.

I know that hurts and as I say many of us understand the pain of infertility, many of us who understand it haven't been blessed with a child yet. To dismiss people's very real concerns that centre the children involved is childish and unfair.

This relationship is not healthy, equal and happy. You cannot speak your mind around your children for fear of your husbands response. That is a toxic environment that is no place to knowingly being another child into, surely you can see that? The fact that truth is painful doesn't mean it's any less true.

@NYCDeli

Thank you *@wewereliars* I do appreciate you sharing your experience. I'm glad you found the strength to leave. I want to do that too but it seems so scary.

I've never ran a house on my own. I've never needed to worry about surviving on 1 income. It feels so daunting.

I am slightly concerned that you are focussing on the wrong things here eg never run a house on your own than the abusive man you call a husband and the impact of his behaviour on you and your daughter

You know not to open your mouth" when your child is around."
You are accepting it is ok to be treated like a piece of shit and wanting a baby is understandable although most women would find a healthy happier relationship for that to happen.
I would be inclined to recorded the rants when he goes off at you.
Is that a way to live?
A child may not hear it directly but I am sure they feel it if not hear and know dads a utter womaniser.
What is wrong with saying no to this sort of shit seriously

Please don't bring another child into this toxic relationship, no matter how desperate you are for another baby, it's totally unfair and irresponsible to voluntarily bring another child into this awful relationship. You're not doing this alone, you're putting your own needs first and saddling a human being with an abusive father.

Children? How many kids do you have? At any rate, sorry not sorry but I'd have zero sympathy for a person who knows they're with an abusive person choosing to conceive another child with that loser because they prioritise their desire for another baby over that baby's well-being.

For god's sake, OP, you can't possibly have another child with this man. You will be linked to him for twenty years or so and he'll make your life absolute hell for all that time.

You have enough money for the next three months. You need to get out and get yourself sorted with benefits and some work. Get the house put up for sale; that will bide you some time. Don't go thinking of an extension now - it's ridiculous.

Bringing a baby into this world when you know in advance he/she will have a violent and abusive father is incredibly unfair. Stop any idea of IVF with him.

You say you have a lot of love to give. Focus on yourself and your existing DC. Focus on your work. You're clearly really capable. You'll survive all this and look back and wonder why on earth you stayed so long.

And btw, there's not one person in your street who thinks he's a nice guy. Every time he kicks off there will be people in your street who want to call the police on him. You realise that if they saw an ambulance outside your house they'd think he'd killed you, don't you?

I'm sorry you're in such a difficult situation.
How old are your children?

Not to be harsh but sometimes fertility is affected by stress. You aren't relaxed with this man. Your daughter is starting her life knowing that men are angry. This is so shit OP. DONT minimise this awful situation to try and keep up appearances of the nice house with the double storey extension or the perfect family witb 2 kids. Because he could get worse. Much worse.

I'd rather be skint and happy and safe, than eggshell living in a high spec house.

Get out. Stay witb family until you get sorted.

Start again. In safety.

Next time he yells at you what happens if it escalates and he throws something at you and it hits your daughter?

What happens if your daughter tells a teacher about daddy's temper?

Keep her safe! IVF and the house don't matter

And yes I did grow up with a shouty, angry unpredictable father at home. It was AWFUL. The memories never leave. Everyday normal domestic noises of family life which others would consider normal, give me terrible flashbacks, I can't deal with noisy crowds or bright lights or cold rooms. I think everything that is wrong in the world is my job to fix because I wasted years trying to fix my home life or trying to make angry people happy.

DONT dare minimise his behaviour for the sake of a few quid in the bank - that he may stop sharing with you.

Protect your daughter.

You always have choices. Always.

Get on the internet and spend an hour sorting out what will happen next week:

• book your free hour with a solicitor to get advice, everyone is entitled to free 30mins or one hour
• 10 minute call & speak to women's aid about your choices.

Its obviously abuse. He is a sadistic abuser.
Why on earth are you trying to bring another baby into this, though? :(