My feed
Premium

Please
or
to access all these features

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Relationships

Awaiting a call in the next hour or so, upset with my parents.

164 replies

HotelChoc · 01/05/2021 10:33

I've NC'd for this but long term poster and reader.

Where do I start?

I'm awaiting my weekly phone call from my mum.
Last weekend, following my birthday mid week, we had planned to go out, perhaps to the coast and go to see my parents. I've not seen them since Christmas Eve when I drove to them with gifts and spent as long as could standing in their cold garden.

Anyway during a call last Saturday, I agree the plan with my mum. Gets up Sunday and just before we leave home I pick up a FB message to say 'Don't think it is a good idea for you to come here today, your DB is here fitting out the bathroom'. I respond with 'oh, ok'.

I'm a grown up but I was so upset. Long running NC with my DB, however I've always made it clear that I will talk to him, that I'm ok with being in the same place as him. He doesn't want that.

My mum will be ringing in an hour. I'm nervous and busy planning how I address this.

I've not gone into detail of the long running saga, it would take hours...but I'm happy to add detail. I really need some help!

I know my mum will try not to mention this, my parents don't address issues so I'm going to have to bring this up. Recently my DS visited, as he was running an errand for them and was also left outside without any introduction to his uncle or cousin who were there at the time. When I raised that the answer was ' oh I didn't know your DS had seen him'. I really don't like how things are left to fester and never addressed.
My parents won't address any of this with my DB, at the time of the fall out he wasn't in touch with them for 8 years afterwards. They don't want that to happen again.

Sorry, I'll shut up now!

OP posts:
Report
SpeckledFrogsLog · 03/05/2021 08:41

I may have missed it but surely the logical way forward is to tell your parents that if they want to see you and your family they can come and visit you. How much they bother to do so remains to be seen but at least it will be clear to you whether your parents have an actual interest in maintaining a relationship with you and your family without being able to use your DB as a convenient excuse.

Report
NinaMimi · 03/05/2021 08:51

While I imagine it’s awkward being parents to adult children who are non contact and they have to respect the wishes of one child there’s something really pathetic about keeping a grandson outside to avoid meeting his uncle.

I think like others say the dynamic is how it is because they know you won’t go no contact whereas he has that threat over them. You also come across as quite needy. While it’s admirable you want to get on well with them you shouldn’t let them treat you badly. Stop trying to arrange things like Christmas and make plans with people you can trust and that won’t dump you.

Report
HunterHearstHelmsley · 03/05/2021 08:55

Well done for raising it, OP. It can be hard with different family dynamics.

I am LC with one of my siblings. Back story being, she went NC with the whole family for no reason when she was late teens. This lasted about 6 years. Everyone talks now but I have no time for her. If she is at my parents at the same time as me, I'll generally stay out of the way upstairs.

My parents have changed over the last couple of years and they're at the point that is she goes NC again then that's that. They refuse to constantly walk on eggshells or have their life dictated. It took a lot of me saying "what would you say to me if I did that?"

She used to be top of the pecking order. That has definitely changed.

Report
user7891011 · 03/05/2021 08:59

I think they did the right thing tbf. It sounds like it's been going on ages so if it was going to be sorted in one conversation it would've been by now surely. They just want an easy life

Report
WhereYouLeftIt · 03/05/2021 09:07

@HotelChoc

Thanks both, it's a mess isn't it!

Trouble with having to make an appointment will be the hurt and the 'second best' when he's already made his claim.

Funny DP's never get an invitation at Christmas, that's left to me, because of course DB and his wife are with her parents...

Stop accepting being second best. It will be hard, I'm not making light of this - but they will treat you how you allow them to. And that means there has to be consequences for them when they mistreat you.

And I'd suggest a real consequence would be that there should be NO invite for Christmas this year. Could you invite your PILs and have 'no room, and it's their turn' or 'just a quiet Christmas this year'? They've made their bed, let them realise that.

They won't change their behaviour unless and until you change yours. And they may never change, may never stop being horrible to you and yours. But if that's the case, that they never change their behaviour - do you really want to spend time with them? Inflict them on yourself, your son, your husband? You are all worth more than this.
Report
Blueskytoday06 · 03/05/2021 09:08

I would not mention it and try to resolve your feelings by yourself.

Report
Magicpaintbrush · 03/05/2021 09:09

I can see why you're hurt OP. You made birthday plans with your parents and they cancelled on you in favour of your brother. Presumably the date for him to fit the bathroom was made after the plan to see you on your birthday or they wouldn't have made plans with you, or if not then they shouldn't have made plans with you if there was a chance they would let you down. I don't blame you for being upset - they could have got the bathroom done another day rather than cancelling on your birthday.

Report
ChequerBoard · 03/05/2021 09:20

"I asked her if she wanted us to make an appointment to see them so that they always know when we are coming - she said not.
I made it clear that in that case, if I call in unannounced at their house and DB is there, that I'm fine with and won't be sitting outside until he's gone, but if he doesn't want to be there with me, he can of course leave. "

Wow - so you expect to be able to drop in whenever you like with no warning.

Is that what really happened at the weekend? You had no firm plans for a birthday get together but decided last minute you would grace the parents with your company?

In the meantime plans had been made for DB to redo the bathroom. I can see why having visitors over when the bathroom is being refitted and the WC about of action would be best avoided, even without the sibling NC stuff.

You need to revisit this OP, you really aren't whiter than white here. You have made nasty comments about SiL parentage and issued a high-handed requirements to drop in unannounced on your parents whenever you see fit.

I bet the other sides of this story are interesting!

Report
PurpleMustang · 03/05/2021 09:33

I think everyone is right in that you will always be the accommodating, reasonable one. Which has 2 affects. Your parents dump on you because they know they can. But it does also highlight how unreasonable your brother is. And no, stop picking up the Christmas scraps because it suits your brother and parents. Do your own thing. Just your family, with the in-laws, with friends. Although do wonder if brother and his precious wife have realised by your parents picking them and planting themselves close by, they are now primed for the helping in old age that your parents may need.

Report
WhereYouLeftIt · 03/05/2021 09:33

@ChequerBoard, read the OP.

"Anyway during a call last Saturday, I agree the plan with my mum."

Report
Viviennemary · 03/05/2021 09:33

It is not clear what's going on here. But perfectly reasonable to not want guests if they were having work done on the house. Story seemes a bit one sided. I wonder what your brother's version is.

Report
MichelleScarn · 03/05/2021 09:35

Really chequer how you got all that from ops posts I don't know! You need to revisit this OP, you really aren't whiter than white here. You have made nasty comments about SiL parentage and issued a high-handed requirements to drop in unannounced on your parents whenever you see fit.

Bizarre! are you ops dm or sil?

Report
ilovesushi · 03/05/2021 09:48

What a horrible situation! I really feel for you. Your DB's behaviour is bizarre. Everyone has their fallings out in families but to carry the resentment on and on for years is messed up. Sounds like your parents just want everyone to get on but at the same time can't confront the situation to move it to any kind of resolution as that could cause conflict with their DS and potentially mean losing him again. They know you are kind and reasonable and so put you out because they know you understand their difficult situation. What they are not factoring in is the hurt that this causes you. Awful situation for you all and it is coming between you and your parents which is just unfair.

Report
Snorkelface · 03/05/2021 09:54

OP it sounds like you've become the family scapegoat, which is a horrible position to be in and not easy to resolve. Family dynamics become so ingrained. There's lots of google fodder on family scapegoating, Glynis Sherwood is a good one to have a look at.

Report
HotelChoc · 03/05/2021 09:56

Wow - so you expect to be able to drop in whenever you like with no warning

No, my parents were expecting me to visit and cancelled by messenger because my DB was to do the bathroom that day.

No also to 'dropping in'. I asked my mum how we could move on and gave her the option of ' we all call first and let you know, or we all know that we can call in without warning. She was very clear that she does not want her own DC's to have to make an appointment to visit.

OP posts:
Report
Mummyoflittledragon · 03/05/2021 09:57

I’m NC with my golden child brother for my own physical protection. He is married to an equally difficult woman, who thrives on my brother treating me poorly.

My brother also manipulates my mother. He is perfect in her eyes. Wonderful (her words). Can do no wrong. She totally denies the reality of how he treats me. The violence for her is either in my head or my fault. She just cannot face reality and I have learnt this will never, ever change. I think a lot less of her because of it. The only thing I could do is withdraw.

So to go through your recent post....

I suggested that she and my dad have a clear conversation with my DB too so that everyone knows where they stand if this occurs. She says they will talk to him too, but when they’ve tried in the past he shuts down.

They will see this as you trying to stir up shit. Which in their eyes it is. They just want you to shut up and put up rather like my mother. Your parents and brother are supposed to decide the narrative, not you. By stirring this up, they won’t suddenly say, ‘oh yes, Choc is right.’ The more likely is that they will increase their feelings of victimhood.

oh why did we move here, no wonder we stayed abroad so long, we should have just stayed

Message : I’m a victim and being abused (by you).

I expected a call back from my dad, usually if I challenge their acceptance of my DB’s behaviour, my dad rings really cross, usually ‘you’ve upset your mum.

Message: you’re abusing your mum. She’s the victim.

He hasn’t and I wouldn’t have answered anyway.

Well that’s progress.

We’ll see in the future what happens. I’m going to keep talking to them about it and following through with what we’ve agreed so far.

Expect more of the above behaviour. Anything you do or say to rock the boat will have you as the abuser and them the victims. Because to see it any other way is too dangerous for them. And remember they are the ones, who created this dynamic in the first place as they decided to throw you and your children under the bus so that your brother doesn’t cut them off again. If you look at your childhood, was this dynamic set up then?

You cannot change your parents’ behaviour. All you can do is to change your reaction to theirs and you’re doing the exact opposite unfortunately to get that reaction. You’re expecting a rational response from them. You will never, ever get that because this situation is not rational.

If you want them to respect you, the only thing you can do is make yourself and your dcs less compliant. To put up boundaries of what is acceptable. Contrary what you think, if you want a more peaceful relationship, stopping talking to them about your brother and how they are with him is key.

You cannot reason with them because they are unable to be rational. You cannot nor will you ever be able to talk this out rationally. They do not understand you’re trying to make sense of the situation and trying to make rational ground rules that you can all follow. And tbh that is their choice not to do that.

Forcing them to do this from their POV is acting like your brother and they have already made their choices. He is telling them how to act and they’ve decided to obey him and his changing rules. You telling them to go against his rules will be perceived as abuse because your brother has decided you are the abuser and they are obeying him... and if this dynamic started in childhood, you are also going against their rules and world view that their son is the perfect golden child, who can do no wrong.

Take a step back and think about what that meant to them and how they saw themselves when he went NC for 8 years. Think about that fear for a moment. Not to empathise, just to understand that you cannot ever ever change this by fighting against your brother or their view of him.

I would suggest a period of low contact. No contact if you prefer. Not to punish them. But so that you can heal yourself and detach from the toxicity. Therapy would be good. I used to do exactly what you’re doing. I no longer do. I would also suggest you respect your brother’s desire to be NC. Not because you are in the wrong. But because they are obeying him. In his and therefore their eyes, you are the abuser. You don’t have to agree with this. Just to realise that you cannot fight it.

I have some clangers in my life with my mother. But she also used to pull the sort of thing you’re describing regularly. Including prioritising my brother over my dd when she was a baby, ie making plans with me then dropping them for him and expecting me to comply.... including wanting me to wake baby dd up as they’d visited him first when I begged them not to as she’d be asleep.

I always used to try to reason it out and beg. I don’t do this anymore and she no longer pulls this shit because I went NC with her for a few months. She went too far and talked abominably about my dd when she was about 7. It was a bit of a reset. And since then I’ve seriously pulled away. She does push at times. But I don’t bite...well I have a few times. But I try hard not to.

Interestingly my mother knows exactly what she’s doing to me... Christmas with her is also contentious. I invited my cousin to come and stay over at Christmas and said I was also intending on inviting my mother but hadn’t done so yet. Did she and her dh want to come too? My mother got wind of this one and when I asked her if she’d like to come, she was incensed that she hadn’t been asked first and I had prioritised my cousin. I hadn’t. Batshit batshit.... and this was the Christmas after she’d dropped me in favour of my brother Christmas Day. IE I invited her and then my brother did after. Brother and I vaguely took it in turns and it was my ‘turn’ that year... Thinking about it, there were a lot of instances, where the same sort of thing you’re describing happened between my brother and me... and this was all before I went NC with him rather than after as I no longer play those games.

Do you get on well with your in laws?

Report
BluebellsGreenbells · 03/05/2021 10:08

I’m wondering how long you can continue to be treated badly?

You expect your parents to facilitate peace but their solution is to push you down when he’s in the picture, which you accept! Why?

Why to you allow them to treat you like this? You blame your brother, but it’s not him doing it is it? It’s your parents?

Report
Sssloou · 03/05/2021 10:22

@Mummyoflittledragon I can see that your DB was likely pulling the strings to sabotage your RS with your DM and she always capitulated to him - to avoid her own personal discomfort - not even necessarily because she preferred one of you over the other - she was just being selfish - but like OP - don’t play the games - DROP the rope - don’t even need to discuss it. Get your head out of the game - let them win the tug of war - they will all just fall into each other.

OP don’t waste another breath or thought trying to get your DP to see sense / fairness / your point of view - you are inadvertently making it worse ....... ACTIONS not words - change gear, focus, dynamic- turn your back and focus on healthy productive RS not this futile mess that is entrenched over decades

Report
CallmeHendricks · 03/05/2021 10:34

"Making an appointment" is just terminology. It sounds formalised and unnecessary. Dropping someone a quick text to check they're in and it would be OK for you to call by, is fairly standard practice and few would take offence at it.

Report
madroid · 03/05/2021 10:38

Here's a simple solution - you never visit your parents' house they only visit you.

That puts you in control of the calendar, you in control of other visitors at the same time and you in control of how your children are treated.

I just would not entertain a luke warm welcome for me or my children. But if you want to see them, then invite them to you. Even if you and you DH have to ferry them there and back it would be worth it imho.

Report
Rosenspants · 03/05/2021 10:40

I feel for you, OP. I think the PPs comment above, ‘drop the rope’ is excellent. So much of this is based in old grudges and jealousy... impossible to unravel and start again sometimes. My DHs sister hasn’t spoken to us since we married, and has chosen never to meet her lovely niece and nephew, now in their twenties and will always wonder why they have an aunt who has no interest in knowing them. We eventually stopped the many invitations to meet up and make up for lost time. We never knew the reason. I can only surmise that SIL thought she was going to be the attractive, successful one and her geeky, shy older bro would be sad and single. It’s worked out the other way. There was always a warm welcome awaiting her with us but we gave up in the end. I’ve always been unsure of PILs role in this. They do change arrangements if we’re due to visit when SIL decides to go. Sometimes I think a bit of divide and conquer is going on but can’t be sure.

Report
YetAnotherSpartacus · 03/05/2021 10:45

Stop accepting being second best. It will be hard, I'm not making light of this - but they will treat you how you allow them to. And that means there has to be consequences for them when they mistreat you

Exactly. They are treating you appallingly.

My guess is that when old age hits they will treat you with tiny promises of love so that you provide all the care (in the hope of the love) and your 'D'B does fuck all.

Don't let this happen. Go LC and tell them why. You will come back on YOUR terms. And think about how you will address the eldercare issue when it arises.

Report

Don’t want to miss threads like this?

Weekly

Sign up to our weekly round up and get all the best threads sent straight to your inbox!

Log in to update your newsletter preferences.

You've subscribed!

BiscoffAddict · 03/05/2021 10:48

What a pathetic excuse for a human being your DB sounds. My Dad didn’t get on with one of his brothers, they were just very different people and had argued since childhood. Eventually they went very low contact and only saw each other when they had to, so family weddings, funerals etc. Even though they didn’t get on they managed to remain civil to one another, because that’s what grown ups do!

My Dad would also never in a million years have ignored or refused to to acknowledge my Uncles kids, and likewise my Uncle would never have behaved like that towards DB and I, because the issue was between them and not us.

What would have happened if you’d hadn’t seen that FB message and rocked up at their house anyway? I’d have been inclined to do that and made your DB squirm.

Report
DoubleTweenQueen · 03/05/2021 10:50

@HotelChoc Maybe your parents were caught out by your brother only being available that particular day, and insisting he come?

Report
Sakura7 · 03/05/2021 10:57

It is not clear what's going on here. But perfectly reasonable to not want guests if they were having work done on the house. Story seemes a bit one sided. I wonder what your brother's version is.

Either you haven't read the full thread or you have a very skewed take on the situation. It's clear that OP is trying hard to hold onto the relationship with her parents despite being treated appallingly. This is a common dynamic in dysfunctional families.

OP I agree with the poster above that in trying to talk this through with them, you're expecting a rational response from people who are irrational. Their behaviour is not going to change, so you have to protect yourself by stepping away. Get some therapy and work on your self esteem and boundaries.

The language your father used towards you is abusive and completely unacceptable, no decent father would ever dream of saying that to their daughter.

It's an extremely hurtful and upsetting situation but know that it is not your fault.

Report
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.