Awaiting a call in the next hour or so, upset with my parents.

[HotelChoc]

I've NC'd for this but long term poster and reader.

Where do I start?

I'm awaiting my weekly phone call from my mum.
Last weekend, following my birthday mid week, we had planned to go out, perhaps to the coast and go to see my parents. I've not seen them since Christmas Eve when I drove to them with gifts and spent as long as could standing in their cold garden.

Anyway during a call last Saturday, I agree the plan with my mum. Gets up Sunday and just before we leave home I pick up a FB message to say 'Don't think it is a good idea for you to come here today, your DB is here fitting out the bathroom'. I respond with 'oh, ok'.

I'm a grown up but I was so upset. Long running NC with my DB, however I've always made it clear that I will talk to him, that I'm ok with being in the same place as him. He doesn't want that.

My mum will be ringing in an hour. I'm nervous and busy planning how I address this.

I've not gone into detail of the long running saga, it would take hours...but I'm happy to add detail. I really need some help!

I know my mum will try not to mention this, my parents don't address issues so I'm going to have to bring this up. Recently my DS visited, as he was running an errand for them and was also left outside without any introduction to his uncle or cousin who were there at the time. When I raised that the answer was ' oh I didn't know your DS had seen him'. I really don't like how things are left to fester and never addressed.
My parents won't address any of this with my DB, at the time of the fall out he wasn't in touch with them for 8 years afterwards. They don't want that to happen again.

Sorry, I'll shut up now!

I think you need to accept that your parents are too scared of your Brother and the potential for him to ghost them again, to be able to treat you equally.

I think it may be worth your time reading the stately homes threads here OP. There seems to be a lot of layers to the family dynamics here. I find it very sad your son was made to wait in his grandparents garden because his uncle wouldn't want to see him, for whatever reason. I think some distance from your parents might help you too.

@HunterHearstHelmsley

Your mom is worried that your brother will cut her off again. She doesn't have that worry with you so expects you should be the one to be flexible. Its probably not even a conscious thought.

I'd bring it up in a "this is how you made me feel" way.

I don't subscribe to "he must be NC for a good reason". I know from experience that there isn't always a good reason.

This.

I know you won't do this OP , but personally I would make her as worried about me cutting her off as she is with him. Your parents prioritising him over you every time, and that must hurt.

'If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got'.

Sounds to me like you have always been willing to be nice, speak to your brother despite his behaviour, not pressure your parents - how's that been working out then? Are they considerate of you, or do they just shit all over you, hmm? I really do suggest you stop making conciliatory noises to them and bluntly tell them that their behaviour is just plain hurtful towards you. Make yourself less available to them. They don't deserve you.

We once had an issue with no contact on our family (5 children). My brother didn't speak to my sister for 15 years (he does now) and my sister didn't speak to me for 10 years. It was really hurtful when I went to parents house because my mum let her not speak to me - made me feel like shit (she does now infact became my closest sister).
My advice to you is don't give him your power. Does that make sense to you? People can only hurt you if you let them. I think if you can work on not letting him have your power eventually he will realise he doesn't have control over you and be less likely to keep it up.
You do you - let your parents do themselves and your brother do himself. Now I have children I can see why my parents found it hard to take a stand as they were by default choosing sides. I think it might be the same for your parents.

Just let the ties naturally slide a bit with your DP's. Your DB has got real problems too, as it sounds like he's hooked up with a manipulative control freak.
Certainly wouldn't be holding out for a phonecall which, you don't want, and didn't happen. Oh but then you chased them when they didn't call, but they didn't answer - probably out with your DB.
You are trying too hard for there affection, which makes me think that you have got used to your DB being put first most of your life and you are conditioned to fight for their attention. Otherwise, you would see that your DP's are out of order. You've even let your son be treated like shit while doing an errand for them - so, teaching your kids to accept being 2nd class in your DP's eyes.
You should not be standing for this and trying to make peace all the time. Make your whole family less available to them. I think it's about time enough was enough. They've made their stance clear by moving near him. I would not be setting foot in their house again, at most they'd have to be the ones traveling to see me.

Still getting over your dad calling you a F bith.

I’m sure your parents hate being in the middle but putting one child before another is awful.

Can you see you’re being too nice, too flexible? You’re doing all the compromising, why isn’t it shared...?

So sorry you’re going through this OP.

CBT? Counselling?

Hard to say because we don't know all the facts.... but was he there on a Saturday fitting a bathroom for free/ at cost? Maybe he could only do it at a weekend because he was working the rest of the week? Maybe it was a 2 day job so he had to do Saturday and Sunday. Of course it was going to be hard to to say no to him he was doing a favour? Also a little bit rude to leave the house.

Unfortunately he doesn't want to see you and your parents respect that. We don't know whether they agree with him or not, just that they respect him. Which is right and fair.

Just wanted to add regarding your father being unacceptably rude. Is it that he blames you when you don't tow the line because it upsets your mum and then she moans/takes it out on him? Rather than them addressing their own behaviour and your brothers, you are always the bad guy.

I had a light bulb moment about 18 months ago. I couldn't understand why my parents prioritised my siblings, put up with the way they treated them etc. Not that I'm an angel of course but I realised that they saw me as the person upsetting the apple cart because I wouldn't accept it and tow the line. This upsets my mum who has a go at my Dad and guess who gets the blame!!!

Sounds like the golden child.

I would stop the weekly calls, unless you enjoy them? Sounds like you're in limbo waiting for your mum to call, like a control especially when she's late to call...

@HotelChoc How are things OP?

Your brother sounds like a ticking time bomb who everyone is terrified of annoying, otherwise BOOM - He's gone again!

How dare they treat you like a black sheep like this?!?
How do you think they would feel if YOU cut them off? Would they be as upset as they were when your brother did, do you think?

That was really nasty of your dad.. do you have a good relationship with him? Do you your mum and dad make you feel second best? Your brother sounds like a prize arsehole.

Exactly what @Onthedunes said. Sometimes on MN I wonder if I'm reading the same thing as the other posters...

OP they are prioritising your selfish, rude brother ahead of you constantly. I would consider going low contact with them too because it feels like this is something they won't change. I'm sorry for you, it sounds like it is really hurtful.

Thank you so much everyone, such a lot to think about here.

I have had the call, it was ok, DM did her usual, 'gabble, gabble, gabble, don't take a breath and be bright and happy'; the usual let's not confront this.
So I did, as I usually do because I find avoiding difficult conversations just builds resentment.

I said that I was really upset that I hadn't been welcome at theirs especially as it was my birthday. I said that my sadness impacted on the rest of the day, which we ended up cancelling.

She sort of detached herself from it - 'oh I didn't know what your DF's message said - but that it wasn't about my DB, that she would have let us be there but we couldn't have used the toilet'.
I asked why she hadn't phoned, rather than send a message, that we could have talked it through, that I could have assured her that we would have made sure we'd gone to the toilet elsewhere.
She said she didn't know why.

The conversation didn't really go anywhere, just that's how it was, we couldn't be there.
She did hit back with 'oh why did we move here, no wonder we stayed abroad so long, we should have just stayed'.

However, I moved the conversation on to the future and how would we be able to visit without there being this sort of issue, adding that it was unacceptable that my DS was also made to feel unwelcome at their house.

I asked her if she wanted us to make an appointment to see them so that they always know when we are coming - she said not.
I made it clear that in that case, if I call in unannounced at their house and DB is there, that I'm fine with and won't be sitting outside until he's gone, but if he doesn't want to be there with me, he can of course leave.

I suggested that she and my dad have a clear conversation with my DB too so that everyone knows where they stand if this occurs. She says they will talk to him too, but that when they've tried in the past he shuts down. I don't think they will talk to him, but I will ask next week and ask what his response was.

I said that if this was a situation in my own family, the least I would expect of my DC's is good manners and respect whilst they are in my house. That my DB is rude, there was no need at all for him to ignore my DS and also discussed other family events when similar has happened, how extended family members have expressed how ignorant my DB behaves.

I expected a call from my dad, usually if I challenge their acceptance of my DB's behaviour, my dad rings really cross, usually 'you've upset you mum'. He hasn't and I wouldn't have answered anyway.

We'll see in the future what happens. I'm going to keep talking to them about it and following through with what we've agreed so far.

Anyway, I ended the call with a bit of a low blow back. 'We're off to my MILs tomorrow, she's invited us to celebrate DH's birthday'.

TBH the fact they have moved to where your DB lives is a statement in itself, they will throw you under a bus every time to appease him

They are attached to your brother. They moved to be near him and they will do anything to keep the peace with him.

TBH, I would go with the appointment system. Suggest days and times that suit you and if they are agreeable visit them. If not, don’t offer an alternative for that week, suggest a day for the following week or some time at a later date.
Even better, arrange a set day or date once a week/ fortnight/ month.
They are not flexible because they dance to his tune. I wouldn’t worry. Get on with your life and fit visits to them in when it suits YOU. If they are tied up with golden balls, give them a miss.

Thanks both, it's a mess isn't it!

Trouble with having to make an appointment will be the hurt and the 'second best' when he's already made his claim.

Funny DP's never get an invitation at Christmas, that's left to me, because of course DB and his wife are with her parents...

Leave them to it OP. You will drive yourself mad trying to alter the dynamic.
Do everything to suit yourself and if they want to see you as ‘difficult’ so be it.

As for Christmas, if you want them with you invite them, if not, don’t.

I know they’re your parents but detach emotionally and do away with any sense of obligation. It’s less painful than the hurt you feel now.

I would not be arranging Christmas with them. Fuck that.

I am pleased that someone has already mentioned golden child/ scapegoat. It is interesting reading. I stalked Stately Homes for years - rarely commented but so much resonated.

My brother also went n/c for a long time with my parents primarily due to my father's treatment of him and my mum's unwillingness to rock her her very shaky marriage. But now she is definitely frightened of losing him again (despite their fallings out) and I get the brunt of that. She and I are currently not speaking - its happened more and more over the last few years. And I value this peaceful time - just me and my family. No drama, just us. We spent Xmas last year exactly as we wanted (thank you Boris!), so definitely take the time for you and your family. I'll phone and make up (I was in the wrong for some of the argument) but walk on eggshells.

There's lot of estrangement in my family going back generations.

I read on a family estrangement forum that the most commonly reported feelings after a reconciliation is walking on eggshells.

I think most estrangements are not healed, they are papered over and this affects everyone.

I agree your parents are probably terrified of being cut off again.

Funny DP's never get an invitation at Christmas, that's left to me, because of course DB and his wife are with her parents...

Please stop this, have Christmas at home this year, or spend it with your in-laws! Your parents are getting the best of both worlds, they can indulge your brother (who sounds like a dick btw) and then they come to you when he ditches them as they know you'll be happy for any scrap of attention they give. Imagine this year your brother invited them for Christmas dinner, they'll drop you like a hot potato and they'll be so grateful. A long conversation about how you will all act if you get to your mum's and your brother is there is ridiculous, and your mum actually sounds quite manipulative, she cancelled on pre-arranged plans on your birthday because your brother turned up, he decided on NC so at the point he arrived at your mum's she should have told him she had plans with you, she didn't, she wouldn't upset him but she didn't think twice about upsetting you, it's because you're enabling her to choose his feelings over yours time and time again.

You owe yourself some peace, and boundaries, no more big occasions, no more negotiating how everyone will react when you go within 10 miles of your parents house. In your shoes, on that call with my mum, I'd have said 'fine, I know where I stand and neither me nor my children will come anywhere near your house again' you have to stop allowing yourself to be treated this way

Sounds like your DP have some interesting dynamics themselves - what’s the bigger picture here? Guessing your DF is hard work / bit of a Narc - and it seems that you and your DM do all the negotiating, hand wringing, denial - whilst the two males dominate the dynamics with their controlling behaviours (constant threat of flounce, silent treatment or eruption 24/7/365 keeps everyone on a short leash don’t you know).

Wasting your breath with your Mum and Dad - look at their repeated actions - KNOW the dynamics. Drop the rope. Detach and distance.

Withdraw, grey rock, turn your back.

If your DP want to see you they can come to you - when it suits you.

Do your own thing.

It hurts but KNOW that they are putting their own personal discomfort above doing the right thing - equality - by their DCs.

Also don’t go squaring up to your DB via your DP house - it looks like you give a shit - and if you actually do, you will just fall into his trap - he will sabotage every opportunity he can - don’t provide them.

Withdraw.

@Onthedunes

Is it me or am I reading a different thread in the twilight zone.

Good god, your parents are priorotising your brother and his children over you.
With my children each and everyone is equal, no exceptions it doesnt matter how different they are, how special or how useful they are.....
THEY ARE TREATED THE SAME.

I actually find this quite disturbing and to be frank if I were you I would have been NC with my parents years ago.
Let golden boy have them, it's your parents loss, who the hell does he think he is, dictating who can see who.

This.

Your mother was very rude.

Back away.

OP,

Your parents treat you the way they do because you allow it.

Let them make their own arrangements at Christmas.

Their treatment of your son is appalling.

You are so used to being treated badly, you have allowed it to carry on to your children.

Your father's language towards would have provoked a very strong reaction from someone with self respect.

I think you should really look at yours.

Think of the message you allowed your son to get from his grandmother.

I think you should have Christmas with your inlaws. Tell them to ask db, he’s the favorite anyway so about time you spent some Christmases with him. They need to stop thinking of you as the always on hand but don’t have to be let into the house option.