Awaiting a call in the next hour or so, upset with my parents.

[HotelChoc]

I've NC'd for this but long term poster and reader.

Where do I start?

I'm awaiting my weekly phone call from my mum.
Last weekend, following my birthday mid week, we had planned to go out, perhaps to the coast and go to see my parents. I've not seen them since Christmas Eve when I drove to them with gifts and spent as long as could standing in their cold garden.

Anyway during a call last Saturday, I agree the plan with my mum. Gets up Sunday and just before we leave home I pick up a FB message to say 'Don't think it is a good idea for you to come here today, your DB is here fitting out the bathroom'. I respond with 'oh, ok'.

I'm a grown up but I was so upset. Long running NC with my DB, however I've always made it clear that I will talk to him, that I'm ok with being in the same place as him. He doesn't want that.

My mum will be ringing in an hour. I'm nervous and busy planning how I address this.

I've not gone into detail of the long running saga, it would take hours...but I'm happy to add detail. I really need some help!

I know my mum will try not to mention this, my parents don't address issues so I'm going to have to bring this up. Recently my DS visited, as he was running an errand for them and was also left outside without any introduction to his uncle or cousin who were there at the time. When I raised that the answer was ' oh I didn't know your DS had seen him'. I really don't like how things are left to fester and never addressed.
My parents won't address any of this with my DB, at the time of the fall out he wasn't in touch with them for 8 years afterwards. They don't want that to happen again.

Sorry, I'll shut up now!

[Sssloou]

DARVO - (deny, attack, reverse, victim and offender) is the process that is being used repeatedly with you every time you bring something up - it’s a classic defensive abuser tactic - used to shut you up, gaslight and invalidate your experience by escalating THEIR emotions (or threatening to) so that YOU become anxious and try to de-escalate by apologising or withdrawing.

You are flogging a dead horse. Detach and distance from them.

[Templetreebalm]

the triangle, I think roles can shift around sometimes to for example persecutor is victim or at least plays victim.

Absolutely
I see my DP alternately moving from aggressor to victim and back again.
They mirror each others behaviours and make the same complaints about each other.
The db in this triangle complains he is a victim if the dp step out of their enabler roles.
So manipulative.

[randomer]

Gosh, I see so much of myself here. How kind, how thoughtful sending seeds to plant, jigsaws. Think of the effort , the thought that went into this and they treat you so badly.

They had and have choices. Its one hell of a bitter pill to swallow alright.

re the triangle, I think roles can shift around sometimes to for example persecutor is victim or at least plays victim.

[Sakura7]

So glad you're getting a bit of distance from them and focusing on your own wellbeing.

Definitely keep reading, you'll find a lot of pieces just clicking into place. When you're well informed and you can understand the patterns of behaviour, you're much better equipped to protect yourself.

[billy1966]

OP,
You know how hurt you feel and I have sympathy for you.

But your parents treatment of your son was awful.
To leave him standing outside.
How humiliating.

For me, for someone to do that to one of my children, they would need a hard hat.

They are a disgrace.
But I think you should move your focus to how your child was treated.

No one would get away with such rudeness to my children.

Not a chance.

Your poor son.
Appallingly rude.

[LookItsMeAgain]

I'd love to know if your mum would pick up the phone and call you or ask your dad to drive to see you if you just stopped phoning them or driving to them to see them.
How long would she go without trying to make contact with you?

[madroid]

90 minutes each way to bring them to your house sounds like a small sacrifice to me, say once every one or two months?

At least for a period. It will make the point that your visits to them are not to be taken for granted. Neither is seeing your children.

I would make a point of being very polite and well mannered as a hostess towards them to yet further reinforce THIS is what good manners look like parents!

And for all that's holy duck out of Christmas with them. Fetch them over for the day on Boxing Day or later that week instead. Ring the changes. Get them thinking.

[HotelChoc]

I really will take time to do more reading, especially Karpman and the stately home threads.

I have lessened contact and don't intend to restart Christmas invites post COVID.

Contact is once a week by phone, if I'm in. This was a pattern set anyway from when my DP's were abroad. It only changed as I wanted to support them during lockdown.

The support on here is amazing. In the past when I have stood my ground or forced a conversation to stop issues being left unaddressed I've felt that I'm the one that should just leave it be. Sometimes I wondered if I should be quite so honest. I have a leadership background in and with schools so definitely know when and how to pick my battles! I'm too honest and hoped that by raising things my parents behaviours would be shaped.

My dad is just selfish, he's always come first sadly, his work, the move abroad. Relationships are just not close, exacerbated by the fact that despite plans otherwise they've ended up living in the same town, which to be fair is our home town, as my brother.

My mum commented on my DB's wife being out for a walk with her mum, shopping, drinks outside, whilst she isn't invited. I did say 'well that's what we could have had if you'd followed through on your plans to live here'!

[Templetreebalm]

Op I mentioned Karpman
In a dysfunctional family situation there are roles that family members are expected to play out.
The issues crop up when you dont play your given role so the aggression/ abuse/ freezing out escalates.
The roles generally are Persecutor, Victim, Enabler.
From the outside it appears that
Persecutor-your db
Victim- you
Enabler-your dp
Unless there is some massive drip feed that we arent currently aware of but from what you said your db just randomly cut you out.
From your dp point of view he is the Golden child and you the Scapegoat.
I would look up the Stately Homes thread and it will be very transparent about what they are doing.
The only way to protect yourself from this abuse and manipulation, because thats what it is, will be to detatch yourself emotionally and go LC.
Have low to zero expectations of your dp.
They too are victims of your db manipulation.

[billy1966]

@Sssloou

Your Mum is v nasty.

How ridiculous and disrespectful that she doesn’t know the date of your DH birthday after all these years and to mess you about on your own birthday is v low.

Alongside leaving her grandson outside you need to SEE how they are actively choosing to disrespect you all.

Stop wasting your breath. You will never change them - the believe they are right.

You will never get what you want.

They don’t care about you.

They care more about their own unease and threat from DB than they do about what is right or wrong - they throw you, their DGS, and your family under the bus time and time again.

How dare your DF degrade you with offensive misogynistic language.

Your “normal” is v dysfunctional.

This isn’t good enough. You all deserve much better.

I couldn't agree more.

[Sssloou]

Your Mum is v nasty.

How ridiculous and disrespectful that she doesn’t know the date of your DH birthday after all these years and to mess you about on your own birthday is v low.

Alongside leaving her grandson outside you need to SEE how they are actively choosing to disrespect you all.

Stop wasting your breath. You will never change them - the believe they are right.

You will never get what you want.

They don’t care about you.

They care more about their own unease and threat from DB than they do about what is right or wrong - they throw you, their DGS, and your family under the bus time and time again.

How dare your DF degrade you with offensive misogynistic language.

Your “normal” is v dysfunctional.

This isn’t good enough. You all deserve much better.

[LookItsMeAgain]

@HotelChoc, Just after seeing the last update from you and your comment:
"I can't be bothered"
Channel that! As someone else posted up thread, drop the rope that is tying you to them.
Hope you and your DH have a lovely day with his parents celebrating his birthday.

[LookItsMeAgain]

@HotelChoc

Wow - so you expect to be able to drop in whenever you like with no warning

No, my parents were expecting me to visit and cancelled by messenger because my DB was to do the bathroom that day.

No also to 'dropping in'. I asked my mum how we could move on and gave her the option of ' we all call first and let you know, or we all know that we can call in without warning. She was very clear that she does not want her own DC's to have to make an appointment to visit.

It is shit about the birthday visit you were going to make (which had been pre-arranged) couldn't still have happened but perhaps outdoors with your parents. It is what it is so I would put a line under that (remember it but don't dwell on it).

As for how you maintain a relationship with your parents - you will have to say that if you can't 'drop by' or 'drop in' they haven't left an alternative but to phone ahead and make an appointment if they are not going to be the ones to travel to see their children and grandchildren?? There is nothing else, based on the behaviour of your DB.

I 100% agree with @madroid's suggestion above.

[PatchworkElmer]

When I talk about it to friends, of course the response is always along the lines of 'you'll miss them when they're gone...or you'll regret this, I wish my DP's were still here...'. In my mind I'm not sure I would regret it but I can only know that when it's too late.

I’m guessing that these people had parents who didn’t behave like yours are?

Frankly I wouldn’t be inviting them for Christmas again. See a therapist, gain a healthy distance at the very least. This is affecting your DC and that’s not ok- think about what you want them to learn about relationships from this.

[SelkieFly]

Guilt is what im trying to cleanse. My parents chose to hurt me, chose to defend that, chose to cast themselves as victims of me. Im seeing a psychotherapist once a fortnight roughly and it does really help. I recommend it!

[timeisnotaline]

I hope you’re taking on board the advice about christmas plans. Leave your parents out of it this year.

[WhereYouLeftIt]

"I do feel guilty as they get older"
Guilty about what? Serious question.

"When I talk about it to friends, of course the response is always along the lines of 'you'll miss them when they're gone...or you'll regret this, I wish my DP's were still here...'. In my mind I'm not sure I would regret it but I can only know that when it's too late."
With the greatest respect to your friends - they haven't a clue. Really, they haven't.

[Melroses]

Yes - you need a bit of a break.

[HotelChoc]

Thank you for the great advice about taking care of myself. I've a lot to think about.

My mum has just called...'when is your DH's birthday, I'm sure it's May'.
I give up.

I said "it's tomorrow - I told you that when I said his mum had invited us to hers for his birthday'. She said ' oh I know you said you were going, I didn't know it was for his birthday'. ...eerrrh yes you did.

I can't be bothered.

[ChateauMargaux]

You have the right to be treated with respect and have your kind and considerate behaviour reciprocated.

Bollocks to 'you will miss them when they are gone.' You might... but it doesn't mean you should stand in line and be treated like a lessor human now just because your brother behaves appallingly.

Good for you for standing up for yourself and your son. Don't let your children grow up believing that this is a decent way to behave. Model good relationships and explain why interactions with your family are the way they are.

[Templetreebalm]

Sorry Karpman

[Templetreebalm]

Op have you ever looked at Karpans Triangulation Theory?
It might be really helpful in this situation.

[SelkieFly]

I get that too. How will you feel when they're gone? But if I dont take a step back, ill be completely eroded now

[diddl]

Op you are so thoughtful towards them & do they appreciate it?

Your mum has put he phone down on you-your dad called you an awkward bitch-would you accept that from others?

The shit that people put up with from family but would cut others off for.

They are your parents-they should be held to higher standards imo as they should love you unconditionally.

[Melroses]

You won't necessarily regret anything - you can only do what you can do.

Give yourself some space, and some of the TLC you have been dishing out. You need to look after yourself to be able to cope with the others ❤