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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

After The Affair . . .

111 replies

LobotomisedIceSkatingFan · 09/04/2021 16:24

I've tried to distil this to its most salient bits, but it's really long. Apologies. It's getting it all in the right order that's hard. It's also pretty outing but I don't really owe the other actors anything, so . . .

Boyfriend and I have been 'together' for fifteen years. He was my first relationship of note (I was early 20s when we got together); I became pregnant within nine months of meeting; we went on to have two more children. For all sorts of reasons we've never really lived together. Quite a lot of people - including mums at the school - think of me as a single parent and I've never really disabused them of that notion: and, in fairness, I pretty much am - every dentist appointment; parents' evening; birthday party; trip to the beach, I do solo. We never go to weddings together; to lunch with friends. We've never hosted a dinner party. I've become less sociable over the years but I am fairly well-liked in my set 😂 while he is a loner who bemoans his lack of friends but does precisely eff-all about him (people seem to like him a lot, but give up when they realize he's a bit of a curmudgeon). Despite all this, I'd've described us as a couple. My close friends would have, too. Our families. It was emphatically not an open relationship.

Three years ago, when I'd just had our third baby, he came to see us and said he'd had a spat with a colleague about his 'inappropriate friendliness' with another co-worker. I knew immediately who it would be, as he'd mentioned her a few times 🙄 (noted that she'd grown up in the neighbouring village to mine) and that's not really his style. I was uncharacteristically upset and he took pains to tell me that, while he found her attractive, he didn't 'fancy' her per se - and it was largely academic because he loved me, fancied me, and would never cheat. Like the idea was preposterous. Weirdly, despite being a misery in many ways, he's quite flirtatious and quite attractive to women; he's 'admitted' to fancying a couple of our friends, in a very low-key way. I found that quite refreshing, as I think it's naive to think people in relationships never find other people attractive. Anyway. I got over it and was probably no more than mildly relieved when she left to work elsewhere. I should point out she was also in a LTR, and had a child.
Fast-forward to the end of 2019 when she and I ended up working together. (Not suspicious; can't say more than that). I was a bit wary I guess but we got in like a house on fire and I mentally harangued myself for ever thinking poorly of her 🙄 We never really touched on 'the incident' but she did tell me about her relationship woes and, when drunk, alluded to some sort of fling with my boyfriend's immediate junior (a much younger man than both of us, but with a wife and children). Didn't press her on that one but it gave me a sort of peace of mind as it seemed to have happened when I was at the height of my paranoia.
The thing that was tricky, was that ours was a customer-facing role and, while we were both notably good at our job, she performed it with a certain elan that's hard to describe, while I was efficient but also had a spot of 'resting bitch face'. She's also very very attractive to men/customers. Pretty face; great body. They f*ing loved her and treated me like a a kind of gatekeeper/DUFF. In my heyday, I was pretty hot stuff - honest - but I'm now an overweight drudge. Never wear make up; never blow dry my hair. Favour trousers from Matalan with an elasticated waist. I have zero sex appeal and men simply don't fancy me. (Not any with both original hips, anyway - I'm a hit with the 64-79 demographic for some reason 🙄) I accept this is not her fault but it's pretty galling.
Early 2020 she left to go back and work with my boyfriend - not at his behest, but was 'headhunted' by his boss (her former boss). Then Covid happened. In the event, she fell out with the boss and went to work elsewhere. Boyfriend and I did pretty well during the first lockdown - lots of walks with the kids; making bread; bit of DIY. By the time of the second one in November, things had gone downhill. I'd just had a health scare and was admitted to hospital for a time; he was worried there might not be a job for him to go back to (he's already in an IVA). He found living with my elderly parent a huge strain, which I understand - she displays what I shall charitably call 'idiosyncratic' behaviour, which would try the patience of a saint. (On the other hand, she provides childcare, helps us financially, and is my best friend). At any rate - he told me he'd had a drink with this woman in October 2020 and she'd detailed the whole sorry business with his junior, which apparently wasn't a fling but an eighteen month affair during which she'd become pregnant. She'd told her partner in the night he was going to tell his, and then they'd be together - except he chickened out and she was left with a furious and sad partner, and a pregnancy, which she then terminated. I believe his wife found out and threatened her. Messy.
Anyway, our relationship was in the shitter and when BF proposed finding his own place in December, I thought it was a good idea. It was sold to me as space, and we'd maybe not be an orthodox couple - well, we never have been anyway - but we'd be best buds and have lots of sex (which has never been an issue for us). I tell him to tell me if anyone else come along. He agrees, but tells me it's unlikely. I say the same (there not being a huge market for fat, plain, single mums of three). Fine.
Boxing Day 2020 and the bad angel taps me on my shoulder and for first time ever I check his phone, not even being sure I can get access. But I do - and there it is. A massive EA in which it's clear they've only had sex once (about 0.085 seconds after he'd moved out, and a few days before Christmas) but have been building up to it for yonks. While my kids have been bored to tears, they've been having long walks on the Kent coast, and telling each other how 'natural' they feel with each other; how they 'think about each other all the time'. Ace. I forward the message to my BFF who says it makes her tummy hurt. They're clearly in love (though she seems to have withdrawn a bit, although whether it was a modicum of moral fibre or a method of prick-teasing, I'm not sure). I confront him. I send her a restrained message indicating that I'm not going to help them deodorise the mucky genesis of their relationship (a phrase borrowed from here) but they have my go-ahead. She reads and wisely doesn't reply, but messages him two days later
Loads of shit very early on but settled down now. My friends opine that he's cunt, she's a cunt, and not even that pretty (not true, but they're loyal 😂). He proves remarkably resistant to moving on with her, and says he will never love her like he loves me. That all he wanted was to get married and have a proper life with me. That he wants her friendship, and wants to fuck her, but doesn't want a relationship, recognises she's 'damaged', and would stop seeing her if I insisted. (Which I haven't and wouldn't). Most implausibly, he says over many texts that he thinks I'm much hotter than her - probably because me sobbing and talking about what a hideous swamp monster I am, and how firm her tits and fanny must be, has made him feel a bit guilty. He still talks about getting married (and in fairness has asked many times over the years) and growing old. (How her magic fanny fits into that idyll, I don't know). He wants me to have sex with other men if I want, but doesn't want me to have a relationship or fall in love . He's around here all the time, being the best parent he's ever been, and helping out enormously in other ways. So we haven't been managed to break up properly - by rights I'd be three stone thinner and have had a radical haircut. But no.
We have always got in well, and continue to. Make each other laugh; love films and football.
So, Mumsnetters - what the fuck do I do? I love him, but am in limbo and actually keep hoping she gets pregnant so this weird situation stops. I'm also btw livid that this is another relationship she's had a hand in ruining, but again walks away unharmed and buoyed by the fact that another man wants a piece. She has low self-esteem, though, apparently. Sure she does. And I'm Jim Davidson.
So - what now?

OP posts:
LobotomisedIceSkatingFan · 11/04/2021 14:53

@Sunflower1970 - again, you're probably right. I don't think he doesn't care at all - although he possibly doesn't care all that much. He says otherwise and I'm not sure why, as I've told him to go and make a life with her about 447 times. I think he's trying to reframe what happened as a buddy fuck, and thinks my having a bit of sex with a young stud - not very likely - will redress the balance. I can sort of see where's he coming from I suppose.

Anyway. I've got to sort myself out, mostly.

OP posts:
whichwayisup · 11/04/2021 15:07

I can totally get the living apart but choosing not to share a life?? I mean you didn't even plus one each other at weddings ffs. Never mind the whole single mum thing.

Your own observed shortcomings appear to be resolved with a pair of ghds, spanx and some decent makeup. All easily resolvable but then I think you'd think less of yourself if you tried to make yourself more typically appealing.

As for the body issues, by your own admission your not gargantuan just carrying a few extra pounds, hardly grotesque. I'd imagine your resting bitch face and messy hair was more of an issue with the punters than the elasticated waistband.

By your own admission you were a hottie when you met and along with all your other obvious attributes you would have been quite a catch. He's from money, charming and handsome so he's hardly going to be struggling to attract the ladies.

The crux to all of this is why you chose to keep this as a low key fuck buddie sperm donor arrangement. You say there isn't really a reason but of course there is. Not sure blaming your old mum really cuts it.

I mean you can't commit to him, he can't commit to you, you can't live with each other and can't even be each others plus one. So bizarre. I mean really?? I totally get separate houses but if you get on so well socially and sexually why such a separate life?

Your fixation on little miss perfect allows you to avoid dealing with the bigger more difficult issues. It's easy to fixate on the size of her vagina and the gym body bum but they aren't anything to do with anything. She is just one of those lovely looking women who present whatever it is men want rather than who they are. But it's all pretty fake. All an illusion. You sound like you value honesty and you are who you are... Maybe it's shocked you that he's fallen for someone so clearly the opposite to you. But he hasn't really because she's an illusion. She doesn't represent real.

And anyway, you know that he would pick you over her every day of the week too. I mean you are hilarious and obviously brilliant but also scrambled up.

Or maybe you want him to fall in love with you like he seemed to have in the fantasy messaging.

Oh gawd..I don't know. It's just too bloody complicated. Who could be arsed with all of that.

thecatsabsentcojones · 11/04/2021 19:01

@LobotomisedIceSkatingFan I am soooo near to you then. Just down the road, near enough to help you tut at her and call her a strumpet. And funnily enough live in a sixties house that looks like what my friend describes as the ‘Clockwork Orange rape house’. Hmmmm lovely.

LobotomisedIceSkatingFan · 11/04/2021 21:44

@thecatsabsentcojones
I don't recall the film all that well, but wasn't that house a kind of brutalist affair? In which case I very much like the sound of yours. Mine is just - ugly. Another in a long line of my dear old dad's loopy decisions. Ah, well.
Can't quite work out your village but I've got three or four in mind. You'll know what a wrench it would be to move my kids and mum to - gulp - Ashford or Folkestone, which are probably my only options, financially.
Not to say parts of Ashford/Folkestone aren't nice, but the bits accessible on my budget are a bit ho-hum.

OP posts:
Parkerwhereareyou · 11/04/2021 21:53

@LobotomisedIceSkatingFan

I think he's trying to reframe what happened as a buddy fuck, and thinks my having a bit of sex with a young stud - not very likely - will redress the balance.

So go get a young stud. Really.

Look, in the nicest possible way (and understanding as having not once been a candidate for this myself), you need to get yourself out of whatever groove you have been in, and switch all this up.

He is now trying to reframe her as a fuck buddy. I think he doesn't want to split with you. But I do think that not being in the same house, not being partners at weddings, not going on holiday together, not going to the dentist, I don't know what else it was - basically, not doing anything that could be done together apart from ... having three kids and sex. And, I imagine, lots of cool conversations. And a laugh.

I'm not going to say you have to step up and really take on the mantle of adulthood, but I sort of feel I should.

Commitment is just that. You take whatever's coming. You live in the same house. You agree who's putting the bins out (one of my most feared discussions, by the way).

Your non-conformity may, yes may have contributed to the advent of the faux or otherwise fuck strumpster.

Look, this might be one of those weird watersheds. He fell off the wagon with a passing harlot. You thought omg, got yourself in shape so you could live your best life, maybe fucked a 20 something a few times, then really just wanted to go home. With the father of your kids, live in the same house, stop all this avoidance and trendy living apart, the huzzy off fucking someone else's man and ... you (plural) just calming the fuck down with all this.

I don't know why, but I feel this is a wake-up/shake-up scenario, rather than break-up. (I so didn't want that to sound like that!! :)

Tell him: Ok, if she was a fuck buddy, that's all right. Come and live with us then, drop her, and if you think I should fuck someone else too, help me find someone. But can we live in the same house and get on with our lives?

(I feel like I might be going to be big-time slated for what I just said ...)

Parkerwhereareyou · 11/04/2021 21:55

(and please work out the bits where I forgot to finish what I was saying and/or typed the wrong words ...)

ClarkeGriffin · 11/04/2021 22:00

Ditch the twat. And I would send the messages to her partner, bet he'd dump her too once he knows and he deserves to know. She's a cheating bitch. Both her and your ex deserve each other.

You deserve far better. You're witty, intelligent and I doubt as ugly as you claim. He's desperately wanting you back so it can't be true.

ClarkeGriffin · 11/04/2021 22:05

Oh also I'm the same height and size as you, my partner loves my body so don't worry about that. Not every man likes skinny women, not every man likes women our size or bigger. They are all different. So don't think less of yourself for your size.

LobotomisedIceSkatingFan · 11/04/2021 22:23

In fairness to him, he has never in fifteen years made the slightest hurtful comment about my size. As @whichwayisup very insightfully said, I was devastated when I found out because I thought his previous stance - that he found me sexy; didn't mind a bit of squidge, whatever - was a load of old bollocks and he had actually been hankering for someone with an objectively great figure (which she has) all along. Now, he may be brimful of shit but I really, really believe that, while he certainly didn't mind the fact that she has a smokin' hot bod, it wasn't the major consideration, and he was in a very bad way when I had a meltdown in the garage in which I documented all the ways I was disgusting. I truly think he felt wretched about that.
No, I'm not hideous, but I am very very plain. I have actually overheard people (colleagues; customers) discussing the fact, and always been quite philosophical about it. It's only with all this, that I've found it for the first time, quite painful to consider. But I'm at heart a stoic so I shan't dwell on it! 😂

OP posts:
OverTheRubicon · 11/04/2021 22:39

You are clearly funny, a good friend, and a very hard working parent - you've also had trouble with problem drinking, live with a controlling parent with whom you (and your best friend) feel that you have a codependent relationship, and have 'let' the parents at school believe you are a single mum and repeatedly turned down his proposals.

Is that because deep down you've never wanted him as your life partner? Because you do/did love him but love your mum more and want to stay together until the end (valid choice too, but relevant)? Because one of you has issues that you don't like to talk about openly about but mean you know living together will be overwhelmingm? (autistic spectrum conditions can do this, so can many others). Because it was a bit anti-establishment and fun to live this way, until it wasn't?

You know best whether he's truly a wanker - of course he objectively has been a wanker for some period, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is irredeemably a wanker).

Speaking from experience, living separately feels like it shouldn't be so different from absolutely separating, but it's a whole different ball game. It may well be the right thing (was for me), but even when amicable enough it's a nightmare. Counselling is really worth it, whether you're staying together, apart, or unsure, it sounds like you both have a lot of things you keep buried and will be better if you can discuss openly.

ferando81 · 11/04/2021 23:13

I don’t think you do love him .If you did ,you would mind him sleeping with other women .Women dump partners for far less

nimbuscloud · 11/04/2021 23:36

Life is too short to read this !

LobotomisedIceSkatingFan · 11/04/2021 23:50

@nimbuscloud

Life is too short to read this !
So I'll assume that's a hard pass on the serialization rights . . . 🙄
OP posts:
nimbuscloud · 11/04/2021 23:51

Yep!

Boredofitallnow · 12/04/2021 00:14

What ferando81 said.

And that you haven't known the joy of a really close & loving relationship yet. If you found one and looked back on this decision point, you would laugh about there being any decision to make.

Even if you didn't find one, I think you'd look at this stage and feel better off out.

Sandra15 · 12/04/2021 00:20
  • @pixiecircles "He's having his cake and eating it."*

I chuffing hope it chokes him.

leopardandspots · 12/04/2021 06:39

I'm in such a muddle. I keep thinking I should just strike out on my own absolutely independent of everything, and if I never have a date or a shag again, and if they never see each other again or get married in six months - none of it matters

Oh gosh this is so complicated. You know that. However this sentence resonated with me. It's like you are (understandably?) scared. But I woman of your humour and perspicacity really shouldn't be.

You have been ( sort of) striking out on your own anyway. And the never having a shag again isn't linked to his presence. It really isn't.
If it helps.. I put up with 15 years of an unsatisfactory marriage. Some of it documented on old MN posts. Basically Ex messed with my head -lying about lots of stuff from nights out with mates, ex girlfriends on business trips huge work bonuses etc etc. The point is, I thought I'm overweight ( 15 stone) I'll never have a shag again and so on.
The reality- we split in the first lockdown. He stormed out because I didn't come downstairs quickly enough to unpack a take away! Honestly.
I was focussed on consoling the kids and my own sense of failure for 10 weeks. The children rallied with the promise of a puppy.

Then I idly browsed on line dating between lockdowns. It was astonishing. I ended up messaging with 8 decent blokes filtering out the weirdos. Lightly Dated a couple of them. In summary...already by the second lockdown I preferred one, a younger widower. Kind, funny, articulate, open, honest. He was very reassuring about loving my ample curves. We bubbled. I'm 54 btw.
Sorry a bit too much of my story. But the point is- think about what You want from any relationship. It can't be this mess. It just can't. Whatever you do want is out there. It really is.

ClarkeGriffin · 12/04/2021 09:17

No, I'm not hideous, but I am very very plain. I have actually overheard people (colleagues; customers) discussing the fact,

You're going to let people, who's lives are so boring that their most interesting topic to discuss is your looks, bother you? They must be so dull, kind of feel sad for them.

LobotomisedIceSkatingFan · 12/04/2021 09:27

I mean - it's not the main thrust of their conversations 😂 but it's been thrown around a fair bit. It hasn't always bothered me, but I suppose I've been thinking about it in the contact if getting back on the horse and trying something like OLD. Where, I understand, the men can be pretty brutal.y biggest fear is meeting a bloke, telling him where I used to work - and him asking if I can put in a good word with Ol' Magic Minge. I can just see it.

OP posts:
ittakes2 · 12/04/2021 09:28

I think it sounds like you have 4 children rather than 3. I think you are so used to putting up with a man-child you have lowered your expectations of a life partner. You sounds really lovely I hope things work out for you.

LobotomisedIceSkatingFan · 12/04/2021 09:30

'In the context of OLD' ffs

OP posts:
LobotomisedIceSkatingFan · 12/04/2021 09:33

@leopardandspots - It wasn't too much of your story at all. It was a lovely read and I'm glad you're happy. Who knows - I may have a positive update myself in a year or so! I think you're right. Can't be worse than this.

OP posts:
Phoenix121 · 12/04/2021 09:33

Having read the entire thread I have the overriding feeling that this man (the OP's 'X') might have projected his need for feeling close/secure/something along those lines, with the OP, onto this OW instead.
It doesn't sound to me like he did it for the sex. It also sounds as if he would stop seeing OW if the OP just gave the word.
He doesn't sound like a man who is in love with OW.
I wonder, OP, if those messages you read (which you say indicate that they were both in love) might have been messages which he really wanted to be having with you?

Sandra15 · 12/04/2021 11:08

I'd like to ask you to stop bigging up this other woman. I agree you have a distinctive style of writing that is amusing and self-deprecating. But she actually sounds like a horrible narcissist.

VeryLongBeeeeep · 12/04/2021 11:49

This is a lot of words for "the father of my kids is a cheating twat and I'll be better off without him".