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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

After The Affair . . .

111 replies

LobotomisedIceSkatingFan · 09/04/2021 16:24

I've tried to distil this to its most salient bits, but it's really long. Apologies. It's getting it all in the right order that's hard. It's also pretty outing but I don't really owe the other actors anything, so . . .

Boyfriend and I have been 'together' for fifteen years. He was my first relationship of note (I was early 20s when we got together); I became pregnant within nine months of meeting; we went on to have two more children. For all sorts of reasons we've never really lived together. Quite a lot of people - including mums at the school - think of me as a single parent and I've never really disabused them of that notion: and, in fairness, I pretty much am - every dentist appointment; parents' evening; birthday party; trip to the beach, I do solo. We never go to weddings together; to lunch with friends. We've never hosted a dinner party. I've become less sociable over the years but I am fairly well-liked in my set 😂 while he is a loner who bemoans his lack of friends but does precisely eff-all about him (people seem to like him a lot, but give up when they realize he's a bit of a curmudgeon). Despite all this, I'd've described us as a couple. My close friends would have, too. Our families. It was emphatically not an open relationship.

Three years ago, when I'd just had our third baby, he came to see us and said he'd had a spat with a colleague about his 'inappropriate friendliness' with another co-worker. I knew immediately who it would be, as he'd mentioned her a few times 🙄 (noted that she'd grown up in the neighbouring village to mine) and that's not really his style. I was uncharacteristically upset and he took pains to tell me that, while he found her attractive, he didn't 'fancy' her per se - and it was largely academic because he loved me, fancied me, and would never cheat. Like the idea was preposterous. Weirdly, despite being a misery in many ways, he's quite flirtatious and quite attractive to women; he's 'admitted' to fancying a couple of our friends, in a very low-key way. I found that quite refreshing, as I think it's naive to think people in relationships never find other people attractive. Anyway. I got over it and was probably no more than mildly relieved when she left to work elsewhere. I should point out she was also in a LTR, and had a child.
Fast-forward to the end of 2019 when she and I ended up working together. (Not suspicious; can't say more than that). I was a bit wary I guess but we got in like a house on fire and I mentally harangued myself for ever thinking poorly of her 🙄 We never really touched on 'the incident' but she did tell me about her relationship woes and, when drunk, alluded to some sort of fling with my boyfriend's immediate junior (a much younger man than both of us, but with a wife and children). Didn't press her on that one but it gave me a sort of peace of mind as it seemed to have happened when I was at the height of my paranoia.
The thing that was tricky, was that ours was a customer-facing role and, while we were both notably good at our job, she performed it with a certain elan that's hard to describe, while I was efficient but also had a spot of 'resting bitch face'. She's also very very attractive to men/customers. Pretty face; great body. They f*ing loved her and treated me like a a kind of gatekeeper/DUFF. In my heyday, I was pretty hot stuff - honest - but I'm now an overweight drudge. Never wear make up; never blow dry my hair. Favour trousers from Matalan with an elasticated waist. I have zero sex appeal and men simply don't fancy me. (Not any with both original hips, anyway - I'm a hit with the 64-79 demographic for some reason 🙄) I accept this is not her fault but it's pretty galling.
Early 2020 she left to go back and work with my boyfriend - not at his behest, but was 'headhunted' by his boss (her former boss). Then Covid happened. In the event, she fell out with the boss and went to work elsewhere. Boyfriend and I did pretty well during the first lockdown - lots of walks with the kids; making bread; bit of DIY. By the time of the second one in November, things had gone downhill. I'd just had a health scare and was admitted to hospital for a time; he was worried there might not be a job for him to go back to (he's already in an IVA). He found living with my elderly parent a huge strain, which I understand - she displays what I shall charitably call 'idiosyncratic' behaviour, which would try the patience of a saint. (On the other hand, she provides childcare, helps us financially, and is my best friend). At any rate - he told me he'd had a drink with this woman in October 2020 and she'd detailed the whole sorry business with his junior, which apparently wasn't a fling but an eighteen month affair during which she'd become pregnant. She'd told her partner in the night he was going to tell his, and then they'd be together - except he chickened out and she was left with a furious and sad partner, and a pregnancy, which she then terminated. I believe his wife found out and threatened her. Messy.
Anyway, our relationship was in the shitter and when BF proposed finding his own place in December, I thought it was a good idea. It was sold to me as space, and we'd maybe not be an orthodox couple - well, we never have been anyway - but we'd be best buds and have lots of sex (which has never been an issue for us). I tell him to tell me if anyone else come along. He agrees, but tells me it's unlikely. I say the same (there not being a huge market for fat, plain, single mums of three). Fine.
Boxing Day 2020 and the bad angel taps me on my shoulder and for first time ever I check his phone, not even being sure I can get access. But I do - and there it is. A massive EA in which it's clear they've only had sex once (about 0.085 seconds after he'd moved out, and a few days before Christmas) but have been building up to it for yonks. While my kids have been bored to tears, they've been having long walks on the Kent coast, and telling each other how 'natural' they feel with each other; how they 'think about each other all the time'. Ace. I forward the message to my BFF who says it makes her tummy hurt. They're clearly in love (though she seems to have withdrawn a bit, although whether it was a modicum of moral fibre or a method of prick-teasing, I'm not sure). I confront him. I send her a restrained message indicating that I'm not going to help them deodorise the mucky genesis of their relationship (a phrase borrowed from here) but they have my go-ahead. She reads and wisely doesn't reply, but messages him two days later
Loads of shit very early on but settled down now. My friends opine that he's cunt, she's a cunt, and not even that pretty (not true, but they're loyal 😂). He proves remarkably resistant to moving on with her, and says he will never love her like he loves me. That all he wanted was to get married and have a proper life with me. That he wants her friendship, and wants to fuck her, but doesn't want a relationship, recognises she's 'damaged', and would stop seeing her if I insisted. (Which I haven't and wouldn't). Most implausibly, he says over many texts that he thinks I'm much hotter than her - probably because me sobbing and talking about what a hideous swamp monster I am, and how firm her tits and fanny must be, has made him feel a bit guilty. He still talks about getting married (and in fairness has asked many times over the years) and growing old. (How her magic fanny fits into that idyll, I don't know). He wants me to have sex with other men if I want, but doesn't want me to have a relationship or fall in love . He's around here all the time, being the best parent he's ever been, and helping out enormously in other ways. So we haven't been managed to break up properly - by rights I'd be three stone thinner and have had a radical haircut. But no.
We have always got in well, and continue to. Make each other laugh; love films and football.
So, Mumsnetters - what the fuck do I do? I love him, but am in limbo and actually keep hoping she gets pregnant so this weird situation stops. I'm also btw livid that this is another relationship she's had a hand in ruining, but again walks away unharmed and buoyed by the fact that another man wants a piece. She has low self-esteem, though, apparently. Sure she does. And I'm Jim Davidson.
So - what now?

OP posts:
LobotomisedIceSkatingFan · 10/04/2021 20:09

I've made myself soooo identifiable in this thread, and I don't much care. She may even be reading it, the strumpet.

OP posts:
Allwokedup · 10/04/2021 20:12

Strumpet- great word!

Parkerwhereareyou · 10/04/2021 20:37

@Allwokedup and @LobotomisedIceSkatingFan

Harlot, too ; )

buttonsandbobbinses · 10/04/2021 20:41

Oo please tell me you're going to sit down and write a novel about all this. That could be your ticket out of the 70's murder house. Put me down for a signed first addition.

buttonsandbobbinses · 10/04/2021 20:41

*op

Sorry there was no real advice there was there.

LobotomisedIceSkatingFan · 10/04/2021 20:46

@buttonsandbobbinses

As and still don't know what the giddy fuck I'm doing in all this, I'll take your very sweet compliment and we'll put a pin in the advice . . .

OP posts:
LobotomisedIceSkatingFan · 10/04/2021 20:50

As I still don't know . . . etc etc. So many typos tonight. There's even a rogue 'it's' up there somewhere :(

OP posts:
Parkerwhereareyou · 10/04/2021 22:13

@LobotomisedIceSkatingFan I think the situation is such that its/it's/i'tz is the least of the problems ... which is very worrying in itself!

Simple question:

Do you want to keep him?

(not saying you should or shouldn't - this is up to you - you can be in control if you want, by the sounds of things)

LobotomisedIceSkatingFan · 10/04/2021 22:32

No. But that's not precisely the issue and I very evidently haven't made that clear, which is ridiculous and 100% my fault.
I don't want to 'keep' him in the sense of excluding all others. Intellectually, I don't mind that he wants to be with her as well. I'd very much like to know what she actually wants, but I don't expect I will 🙄
The thing is, the situation as it is now suits me quite well save for the fact I hate her. if I can't get over that, I can't keep going anyway. BUT if I can put the fact that I absolutely loathe her in a metaphorical box, should I let things carry in as they are, knowing they suit me but that it's colossally weird? Or is it just plain ridiculous that he should expect me to be fine that's he's cosying up with someone I loathe? Because not seeing him all the time, or sleeping with him, would be fine, but saying it out load feels like it would be more of a grand gesture; and a principled stance against what's happened, rather than a reflection of how I feel.
I feel the chances of my finding someone else are somewhere between slim and nil, but should I deny myself that tiny chance just because I've got my mum and the kids and I'm kind of indifferent to relationships anyway? Because I think he wants me to have a few speculative shags so he feels less bad about what he's done, but I'm not sure how he'd feel if I met someone.
I've been reading a lot of threads in here and the one that struck me is the resurrected one, started maybe three years ago, where a lady with a baby who had also just found out she was pg again, discovered her husband was had an OW, when he was at a work do. Because that one really felt like it could have gone either way; she could have taken him back when he begged, but she didn't and he's now with the OW (and I think she spent time with them during lockdown). And I have to wonder what would have happened if I hadn't seen the messages. Would they be secretly together now? Would he be round here? I'm in such a muddle. I keep thinking I should just strike out on my own absolutely independent of everything, and if I never have a date or a shag again, and if they never see each other again or get married in six months - none of it matters.

OP posts:
Parkerwhereareyou · 11/04/2021 00:05

@LobotomisedIceSkatingFan

I think you are basing your deliberations on some questionable premisses.

It is - objectively speaking, as an outsider - daft to think that in your 30s, you have little to no chance of meeting a proper other man.

Only one thing can prevent it. Your mindset.

And:

This drama with them, this closed little works of you, him, her - another fake prison.

You need to break out of it.

Stop caring about them. Start believing in your future.

Parkerwhereareyou · 11/04/2021 00:10

Meant closed little world

crosshatching · 11/04/2021 00:38

OP there are so many tangled threads in the knot you're dealing with at the moment, you really need to decide which one is the most important one to tug free first. Is it him? Your Mum? Your self-esteem? Your housing? It isn't her btw. She's obligingly enough parked her annoyingly pert arse in such a way and place in your life that you could reasonably focus all your understandable furies at everything on her. She's a cypher in this story.

Really I think you should be getting your children's father to step his parenting game TF up and get yourself to a counsellor just to help you say all the many pressures in your life out loud.

I know that wit and jokes are often the way gentle people express their outrage in more acceptable ways. You could really spend some time thinking about what a good life for you would look like right now. All best.

MiddlesexGirl · 11/04/2021 01:00

You could really spend some time thinking about what a good life for you would look like right now.

Exactly what I was going to say.
What would your best life look like?
If it includes him in it then realistically is that going to happen and how? What would have to happen for it to be mutually beneficial?
It sounds like you are both OK with a relatively open relationship. But he seems to want more from you than you want to give? And maybe subconsciously that's why he got involved with the one person who would hurt you the most?

MrsMaizel · 11/04/2021 01:03

You may be getting rave reviews here for your writing skills but underneath all of that this is your life . I cannot for the life of me see why you would be happy with a man who demeans you in this way . Why are you allowing it ? Don't you think you deserve better ?

MMmomDD · 11/04/2021 02:35

OP - your story is long and complicated. And as you yourself said - you pushed him away for years. You wanted him around but not in a full relationship.
Then you tried lived together in lockdown and it didn’t work. He moved out in Dec.
The way you describing it - with ‘non-orthodox’ relationship, and discussions of being friends, having sex, and conversations about ‘when you meet other people, etc.’ - it all does sound like a shift to an open relationship.
You may not have thought it at the time - but it did seem like the previous phase of relationship has ended.
You even say that you are intellectually OK with it being an open arrangement.
You just don’t like who he picked for that arrangement.
But - and don’t take it the wrong way - you don’t get to approve his ‘others’. Similarly if you went that way - he wouldn’t get to approve yours.

I think you dislike her for the wrong reasons anyway. And I think those are about you and not her. You talk a lot about your appearance as compared to hers. You put yourself down and - I think - feel like there isn’t anything you can do about it. She it thin, etc.
However - how you look, what you eat, how you do your hair - is all up to you. If you don’t want to feel/look the way you think you do - do something about it. You can change what you eat and you can go outside and exercise. Also - living rurally and not driving - also in your control.

As to what you do.... Isn’t that sort of straight forward?
You don’t want a proper relationship with him anyway. You want what you had - an arrangement where you have a visiting BF who spends time with his kids. And the only variable is whether you continue to have sex with him. Whether your dislike of his other sexual partner makes you stop that part of your relationship with him.

So - do whatever you feel you want - and it doesn’t even have to be consistent - you can change your mind as it’s not an official arrangement.

But mostly - stop feeling like a victim. You aren’t old. You can - if you wanted - put in effort and change the way you look. You may be able to meet someone if you felt better about yourself.
BF - as he is the father of your children isn’t going anywhere for a while still. So the two of you would have some sort of a relationship.
But if the two of you decide to reconcile one day - I’d say try a more traditional arrangement.

me4real · 11/04/2021 03:33

It seems to me @LobotomisedIceSkatingFan that some sort of therapy might help you get your head around your situation.

As an aside, I'm pretty sure you don't look like an ogre and would find that if you did do PoF etc, there are other guys who aren't decrepit and are interested in you.

LobotomisedIceSkatingFan · 11/04/2021 10:26

@MMmomDD - very very sage advice/observations, and I shall take them on board: the only caveat being that their EA very much predated the decision to move out and embark on an open relationship. She wasn't waiting in the wings; she was front and centre. I'm absolutely certain they use the fact that he'd been in his place for I reckon a maximum of 72 hrs, to make themselves feel better about the whole sordid thing, but - it's not really on, is it? And of course the fact that it's her, and she's been present in some form for three and half years (admittedly managing to shoehorn in another affair - that one with the added drama of a pregnancy and abortion - in that time) means that I'm forced to infer she's a active cause of the unhappiness. I think he's spent months deliberately trying to make himself unhappy enough to justify bouncing her up and down on his cock. I'm sure I'm right about that. I totally agree that I don't get to choose his 'others' and half the reason I can't say to him I want to finish is that I'm sure he'd say he'll stop seeing her and I don't want that. I don't want him to stop seeing her for me. I want him to not want to be with her in recognition of the pattern of behaviour - the worst of it is; if I'd done what they've done, he wouldn't have accepted it. I was unhappy too; I didn't go looking for dick.

OP posts:
TheSmallAssassin · 11/04/2021 11:03

You write as if you can only be an observer in all this, as if you only play a passive part. I think he has been a complete dick, but this other woman has actively chosen him, whereas you don't seem to be able to commit to him one way or the other. Maybe that is also part of her many charms?

I agree that some therapy would help you, to decide what you really want and to feel like you have some agency in your own life. You are obviously intelligent and funny and, even if you don't believe him, at least one person finds you very attractive, you don't need to sit around waiting for things to happen to you.

TheSmallAssassin · 11/04/2021 11:06

As an afterthought - what is stopping you from making/forcing/owning your own decisions about what comes next?

MMmomDD · 11/04/2021 11:35

OP - with respect - I think you have transferred all the issues in your relationship to this one person.
But she isn’t the reason why for 15 years you had a visiting BF rather than a full time partner. She isn’t a reason why you two didn’t live together and were happy with the arrangement. She isn’t a reason why you didn’t really have a real relationship - as in shared all aspects of life - fun and mundane.

So when you did try to live together recently you went through what many people who move in together find out - that they don’t work as a cohabiting couple. It takes a huge adjustment to live together.
And in your case - it changed your relationship dynamic from fun essentially FWB to less fun-sharing chores-dealing with life crap sort of relationship.
So - he didn’t ‘make himself unhappy’ to get a reason to sleep with her. Thinking that way makes it easier to blame someone else rather than look at the situation the way it actually is.

I understand that it hurts you that he moved quickly after he moved out. But - he did move out and he was free to do whatever. And by the way you describe it - it having just happened once - it does seem like it was not something planned. Both of them seem to be in a bad place and connected. And spur of the moment happened. As both of them by then were single. But it’s not some sort of a big love story it seems - since it wasn’t repeated.

But enough about her. Really I hope you find some strength to focus on you and on getting yourself out of this place where you seem to feel like your life as a woman is over.
I don’t think it is.

In your place - I’d refocus my energy on sorting my out my life. Whichever part you feel most unhappy about - start there. Looks? Clothes? Weight? Job?.... etc
And in parallel - I’d dial down the drama. Use him for what you need from him - be it child care or sex, and then decide what you do when you feel stronger.
Life is too short to define it by your relationship with a man.

Trixie78 · 11/04/2021 11:42

Honestly? Go on a diet, buy some new clothes and dump him. Find a real partnership, you will I can tell by your writing xx

Deathgrip · 11/04/2021 12:12

Why are you tolerating these crumbs from him? You are brilliant and deserve an actual relationship, not whatever the hell this is. This man is a black hole in human form - you need to extract yourself from him and find actual happiness.

Oh, and firm tits get saggy. Wit only improves with age.

TheUniversalsHere · 11/04/2021 12:13

Set your sights higher. You are worth so much more. Agree with PP, I don't normally stick with such long intro posts but you are an incredibly intelligent and witty woman. There are far better men out there who would value you and some even have their own teeth, believe me. Know your worth lady. #TeamLobotomisedIceSkatingFan

Sunflower1970 · 11/04/2021 14:18

I’d let him shag her and get it out Of his system. I’d make it quite clear that you are happy for him to see his kids but that the romance between you and him is over. The fact he is happy about you shagging other men?! He doesn’t care about you. As others have said you have a great personality. Di walks, wear make up and have a lovely haircut. Give yourself a makeover and move on and buil your self esteem.You deserve so much more than this c&&t xxx

LobotomisedIceSkatingFan · 11/04/2021 14:46

@MMmomDD - I think that so much of what you say is undeniable, that it seems very churlish of me to sound argumentative . . .

. . . BUT. I don't hate her for the wrong reasons. I've been very very honest about the fact that she's thinner and prettier than me is my and not hers - I'm pretty sure I even said as much in my OP. It kills me that when people who know us all find out, they - especially the men - will say 'He's traded-up there' and not 'It's a crying shame, because Lobotomized is so funny!' That's not the currency in which most men operate, I find. I've also been fair about her personality, which is also attractive. In my opinion, she's not as funny or clever as me, but others may disagree. At any rate, if I looked askance at women thinner and prettier than me, I'd have no fucking friends. All my friends are prettier than me, and about 80% are thinner.

But, sorry, you cannot in all good conscience think for a second she's conducted herself well here. For a kick-off - she's got horrendous form. If I'd developed an attraction to a man with a fiancé and child; embarked on an affair; learned his partner had become pregnant with their second at some point during their affair; myself become pregnant (I mean; how was she going to explain that to her pre-teen son?), confessed all to my bloke and at some point made sure his partner found out once he started to waver - seat with all the damage I'd done to myself and everyone else, I'd make pretty fucking sure I had a sharp word with myself if the same sorry bollocks looked to happening again, ffs. He wasn't single when they started their EA (and, as stated, I'm still not completely she is now - she certainly doesn't want the father of her son to know). They were sneaking off to coastal towns where none of us is known; they did not want to be seen. I take my kids places on the bus, but we'd gone nowhere all the time they were finding time for this. I asked him if there was 'someone' in the pipeline and he said no. Emphatically no. (And they may already have fucked by this time). They didn't fall into bed as two friends might after a few wines - she invited him around, in the day, when her 'ex' and son were out, and fastened her courage to the sticking post with a few voddies. (And we were in Tier 4, actually, so unless they wore full PPE, that was pretty effed up too. I know he didn't wear a condom, which is nice 🙄). Their messages convey love and some hopes for the future, not the odd buddy fuck. And, she didn't know her last AP's wife, she fucking well knew me. We were pretty close. I'd even offered childcare when she in a fix - about a week or two before it all came out.

And I completely take your point about the living situation but it's not liken we were two kids playing house for the first time - I've had fifteen years and three kids' worth of that everyday drudgery. It's just him that hasn't, especially. He says he wanted that sort of existence but I'm not so sure. I thought giving him the freedom to go to the cinema and pursue other hobbies, was every man's wet dream. Maybe I'm wrong.

But you're all right. I've got to start living for myself and making my own fucking decisions. And I will lose weight. I'm obviously conveyed the impression that water glasses tremble when I walk past but I'm actually not enormous. I'm 5 ft 9 ins and wear about a 16. You might think 'She could do with losing a few pounds' but not 'She needs her jaw wired shut.' I'm on 200 mg of levothyroxine for my underactive thyroid, plus issues related to two traumatic births with third degree tears both times, but I can lose weight and exercise, and I will.

Thank you. I'm crying now for the first time in two months but it's a good thing. I'll be ok. I'm grateful for all of the advice which I probably knew but needed to be confronted with.

OP posts: