Friend losing the plot

[Sandra15]

My oldest friend was widowed suddenly last November and found her husband had been gaslighting her about money - long story but he had gambled away over £100K that she didn't know they had whilst the house went to rack and ruin and he said they had no money to fix it. It's caused a lot of long buried emotions to come out to the extent she's having counselling and will later be seeing a psychotherapist - she has some long, long buried issues about loss, illness and so on. She really is in a pickle. She says that she also feels guilty about not feeling as destroyed at his loss than she should do.

But she's making herself look a bit silly and I haven't the heart to tell her, and while I want to be there for her I am having to step back a bit. She's obsessed with Facebook, with men, sex and sees every single man as eye candy.

She is in my bubble and I went to see her at the weekend, we chatted for a while and she started talking about people she was chatting with on Facebook, who had posted what, and her favourite band. She was also downing Pinot Grigio like grapes were going out of fashion and was getting really angry when Facebook wouldn't load on her phone as she wanted to show me something.

When we turned the TV on to watch a film, she told me she couldn't focus or concentrate and I should watch it by myself and she started messing with her phone again looking up jokes on Facebook. So I said that I wasn't sitting watching a film by myself whilst she was on Facebook. So, she put on MTV with old music tracks on and told me how 'gorgeous' people were and did I agree? She said she liked so-and-so's music but he wasn't that good looking. I mean, I have always been into music for music's sake, not because the lead singer of a band was hot. I don't understand it at all. I once had a picture of Craig David inside my wardrobe door and that's as far as it ever went! I was never a fangirl not really.

I heard all about characters she's friends with and she sees all of this as romantic pursuit. I just can't relate and I think it's crazy. Then she looked up the profile of some guy named Graham who she showed me a photo of, asking me if I thought he had "come to bed eyes" - all I saw was a bloke with his family. This Graham guy is her window cleaner's brother who she suddenly has a fascination for.

Next topic of conversation is how she wants a man, but doesn't want to get married or live with one. She asked me if I thought that was unfair or "using someone". If they both want the same thing, then no. She said it was just being "f* buddies" so I pointed out that if she was in a relationship with someone surely they would do other things than that, ie go to the theatre, out to eat, walks, whatever? She asked me what I thought of on line dating and I gave her my views on it, not that I have ever tried it.

It was like being with a teenage girl with a one track mind. So I am sticking to this. I will talk to her twice a week - weekend and midweek - for half an hour and that's it. It was not the sort of catch-up I want with a friend. Do you think I'm being unreasonable/judgemental? It made me feel really sad and depressed. I don't want to lose her as a friend - we met at the age of 11 - but this kind of carry on is absolutely stupid. She thinks every interaction with a man is sexually charged and it is childish beyond belief. I blame too much celebrity rubbish on the box myself! I would love to help her, but I can't because she does what she wants. Doesn't eat properly, drinks too much and spends all day on Facebook and listening to music. Sorry for the rant. I really hope this counselling helps her because this is just not good.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

November 2020? Or November 2019?

@sjfjsnfkdhsbd

November 2020? Or November 2019?

2020.

She’s lost her husband less than six months ago, I think you should give her a break tbh, sounds like she’s not coping very well and trying to over compensate by focussing on maybe the wrong things but as a coping mechanism

Yes, I see that, it's that I can't help her other than chat to her and ask how she is, but it's making me depressed spending a lot of time with her. I've phoned her every day and been on the phone over an hour each time hearing all this, and it's draining. And I don't want to engage with conversations about Facebook, men and sex with her either. I don't think I can offer much more than a twice weekly chat, which is more than even her sisters do.

"I blame too much celebrity rubbish on the box myself! I would love to help her, but I can't because she does what she wants. Doesn't eat properly, drinks too much and spends all day on Facebook and listening to music."

You should tell her you're a shit judgey friend who blames Love Island for her behaviours before taking even a moment to consider that she's suffered a huge trauma and shock.

She's struggling and trying to fake it that she's ok and moved on etc but she needs some serious support.

If you're her "support bubble" I'd hate to see her enemies.

Poor woman.

She needs to prove to herself that she is still alive.

Limit your calls. She'll get the message.

I think shes just trying to feel something again.

She was trapped with an asshole for years so probably feels relief to be free but also guilt for feeling that way and need to feel something else.

Attraction, sex, romance all those nice things are a distraction from pain, from noise and numbness.

Plus an element of picking up from where she left off as a free unencumbered young woman, before she married. And a hurry, a desperation to enjoy what's left of her youth. A hunger to not let it go by her.

Why can't you just humour her a bit. Drink a few wines and join in with the 'he is so dreamy's'? Wheres the harm?

@denverRegina

"I blame too much celebrity rubbish on the box myself! I would love to help her, but I can't because she does what she wants. Doesn't eat properly, drinks too much and spends all day on Facebook and listening to music."

You should tell her you're a shit judgey friend who blames Love Island for her behaviours before taking even a moment to consider that she's suffered a huge trauma and shock.

She's struggling and trying to fake it that she's ok and moved on etc but she needs some serious support.

If you're her "support bubble" I'd hate to see her enemies.

Poor woman.

She's having 'serious support' from a counsellor and a psychotherapist. I am not equipped for any more than to be a friend to listen, but I cannot cope with hour long conversations about sex, men and actually, she doesn't watch Love Island if I remember correctly. If I am 'judging' I am doing that on here, not to her face to upset her. Her behaviour is self-destructive. She has been phoning one of these men she has been talking to on Facebook at work and telling him she is 'not a bunny boiler'. He blocked her and it upset her. So what do you suggest I do? And a s* friend is the last thing I am.

It's a coping mechanism

I'd probably give her a bit of space

Apart from anything else, she needs to work through this bit. I get that it makes you uncomfortable to listen so I'd back away.

OP, with kindness, your post is incredibly judgemental and dismissive of the huge trauma your friend has gone through. You write as if this behaviour is not triggered by anything and you think she is vapid and ridiculous. Her husband suddenly died less than 6 months ago. Have some empathy and reflect on your language. She hasn’t ‘lost the plot’, she is grieving.
I don’t know exactly what you’re expecting us to say? There is a reason you are seeking our validation that your behaviour here is acceptable and now you’re annoyed that we won’t validate it.
A counsellor and psychotherapist is not a substitute for strong relationships, which are proven to be one of the biggest supporting/protective factors for low mood. Nobody is expecting you to counsel her. They’re expecting you to be her friend. Posting about her on the internet, to bitch about her with a bunch of strangers, isn’t what a supportive friend would do. Nasty behaviour.

I agree it is a coping mechanism.... And it's a good way of finding out who your real friends are too.
Yes she is hard work right now but she needs a friend to be there when she comes out the other end which could be years tbh.

@gracefull

OP, with kindness, your post is incredibly judgemental and dismissive of the huge trauma your friend has gone through. You write as if this behaviour is not triggered by anything and you think she is vapid and ridiculous. Her husband suddenly died less than 6 months ago. Have some empathy and reflect on your language. She hasn’t ‘lost the plot’, she is grieving. I don’t know exactly what you’re expecting us to say? There is a reason you are seeking our validation that your behaviour here is acceptable and now you’re annoyed that we won’t validate it. A counsellor and psychotherapist is not a substitute for strong relationships, which are proven to be one of the biggest supporting/protective factors for low mood. Nobody is expecting you to counsel her. They’re expecting you to be her friend. Posting about her on the internet, to bitch about her with a bunch of strangers, isn’t what a supportive friend would do. Nasty behaviour.

No, I do not expect validation, I expect fair comment. And I am not annoyed either. It's not so much as judging her to be vapid and ridiculous, but concern for who she is getting mixed up with and what further damage she could do to herself. The chap she called at work, telling him she is not a bunny boiler, was married and they had been exchanging sexual banter. She's seeking out a married man, the brother of her window cleaner. She's putting on loud music, then calling the man next door, who she fancies and who has a girlfriend, to discuss whether it is keeping him awake. She's talking to her former brother in law, now married too, on Messenger about scrubbing her back in the bath. She's calling her ex, who is now happily married, to tell him she still loves him (they split up decades ago) and talk about what they did in bed. It really is self-destructive. How can a friend help her with all that?

I thought this place was a supportive one, to get support and help, and talking about this with strangers, who do not know her, rather than people who do, who may think of her as stupid or a fool, was my preferred choice for a reason. I am so sorry that you seem to think it is 'bitching'. That's not very kind, actually, seeing as you prefaced your post "with kindness", @gracefull. I've spent an average of eight hours a week on the phone with her listening to all of this every week. I would call that supportive. I don't criticise her at all but just listen. But it's not getting anyone anywhere.

She has been through a lot and it is very recent. I think limiting time with her is fine if that's what you need to do for you, good that you are both cutting her off.

@Sandra15 raise your concerns with her then Sandra. Tell her you’re worried about her behaviour and who she’s getting mixed up with. That’s what I’d want if you were my friend. Not you to go behind my back and talk shit about me on the internet. Whether you like it or not, you are bitching about her on mumsnet at present and have said some pretty unkind things about her. Sorry you think that’s unkind of me to point out.

@ElderMillennial

She has been through a lot and it is very recent. I think limiting time with her is fine if that's what you need to do for you, good that you are both cutting her off.

Nobody is cutting her off. I don't understand.

[quote gracefull]@Sandra15 raise your concerns with her then Sandra. Tell her you’re worried about her behaviour and who she’s getting mixed up with. That’s what I’d want if you were my friend. Not you to go behind my back and talk shit about me on the internet. Whether you like it or not, you are bitching about her on mumsnet at present and have said some pretty unkind things about her. Sorry you think that’s unkind of me to point out.[/quote]
I think I will do that, if she tells me any more about men, facebook and so on. Not just bring it up out of the blue.

If you are not going to be in her bubble anymore you may want to let her know with warning so she can bubble with somebody else. Very much sounds like this woman needs people around her right now.

Take care of yourself and I hope you have an alternative support bubble yourself as you say this is having a large impact on your well-being. It may be good for you to seek support in real life.

Hmm, tricky. Suggest:

1. a book called Transitions by William Bridges. It helped me to make sense of big change in my life.
2. Encouraging her to lay off the booze.
3. Being a supportive friend but also giving her some pointers if she's losing her way.

I think you're worried about her, shocked by her out of character behaviour and don't know what to do to help. Just be there. Gentle feedback, say you're worried about her.

She's doing lots of risk-taking behaviour and not looking after herself. Almost teen-like. Just try and hang in. Reflect back to her.
Hopefully her therapy will help

She's just trying to cope.

She lost her husband and found out he's been lying to her for so long.

I imagine she's feeling very angry and resentful, and is treating his death as her newfound freedom as a way of coping.

Sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before you can start to make sense of things.

You can't change her and you can't make her stop. But you can be a friend and be there for her. Let her make some mistakes if that's where she's headed, let her figure it out for herself and just be there for her when she needs you

I think you've had some harsh comments here. It sounds incredibly difficult to watch your friend's destructive behaviour and if you voice your opinion to her it'll probably be badly received.

I understand your need to vent and there's nothing wrong with asking on here for advice. It's all anonymous after all.

I agree with pps advising you to speak candidly to her about her behaviour. She sounds vulnerable and will inevitably be left hurt or used by men she is trying to hook up with. It's not on to get drunk and pester old married exes or proposition her married window cleaner.

I don't envy your difficult position but as a friend I think you can tell her the truth. Being supportive is not just nodding and smiling at everything a grieving friend says or does. Perhaps plan how to word it tactfully and make it clear you're coming from a place of concern.

I think it's fine to pull back a little and just give what you can. Encourage her to be honest with her therapist about her behaviour as well.

Good luck, I hope your friendship can weather this storm. You sound like a good friend.

Perhaps steer any meet ups away from drinking and Facebooking.

I know it's tricky with restrictions but could you arrange an activity together? A sport, or gardening or something? A shopping trip (when allowed) or visit a park? Something to take her out of herself for a while.

Sitting in a garden knocking back wine and poring over social media has probably become something of an unhealthy habit/ distraction for her and she could do with time away from that to get some perspective.

The problem is you've been listening to it 8 hours a week!

She doesn't need an hour long conversation every day if she has both a counsellor and a psychotherapist!

Shes desperate for a shag, clearly. Desperate to feel any positive sensations, whether emotional or physical. Yes, shes going to crash.

And I hope you are kind when she does. But you do not need to talk to anyone every single day.

@Sandra15 also think you’ve had harsh comments, and I think you’ve been very supportive - but it’s starting to get too much. If you want to continue the friendship, offer a level of support that works for you. Daily hour long phone calls sounds too much.

I've been in the situation where a very close family member (I thought) went around my family saying I "was losing the plot" after my father died because I wasn't acting in the way she liked.

My dad (who I had a very complicated relationship with) had died...what did she expect?

Yeah she's possibly going off the rails. But your post does not show you have any sympathy towards what she's been through.

If you can't be the friend she needs, at least have the common decency to set clear boundaries. Sorry if it's the support you're after, but imagine for one second if you'd been through that situation - would you like people talking about you to strangers on the internet?