Friend losing the plot

[Sandra15]

My oldest friend was widowed suddenly last November and found her husband had been gaslighting her about money - long story but he had gambled away over £100K that she didn't know they had whilst the house went to rack and ruin and he said they had no money to fix it. It's caused a lot of long buried emotions to come out to the extent she's having counselling and will later be seeing a psychotherapist - she has some long, long buried issues about loss, illness and so on. She really is in a pickle. She says that she also feels guilty about not feeling as destroyed at his loss than she should do.

But she's making herself look a bit silly and I haven't the heart to tell her, and while I want to be there for her I am having to step back a bit. She's obsessed with Facebook, with men, sex and sees every single man as eye candy.

She is in my bubble and I went to see her at the weekend, we chatted for a while and she started talking about people she was chatting with on Facebook, who had posted what, and her favourite band. She was also downing Pinot Grigio like grapes were going out of fashion and was getting really angry when Facebook wouldn't load on her phone as she wanted to show me something.

When we turned the TV on to watch a film, she told me she couldn't focus or concentrate and I should watch it by myself and she started messing with her phone again looking up jokes on Facebook. So I said that I wasn't sitting watching a film by myself whilst she was on Facebook. So, she put on MTV with old music tracks on and told me how 'gorgeous' people were and did I agree? She said she liked so-and-so's music but he wasn't that good looking. I mean, I have always been into music for music's sake, not because the lead singer of a band was hot. I don't understand it at all. I once had a picture of Craig David inside my wardrobe door and that's as far as it ever went! I was never a fangirl not really.

I heard all about characters she's friends with and she sees all of this as romantic pursuit. I just can't relate and I think it's crazy. Then she looked up the profile of some guy named Graham who she showed me a photo of, asking me if I thought he had "come to bed eyes" - all I saw was a bloke with his family. This Graham guy is her window cleaner's brother who she suddenly has a fascination for.

Next topic of conversation is how she wants a man, but doesn't want to get married or live with one. She asked me if I thought that was unfair or "using someone". If they both want the same thing, then no. She said it was just being "f* buddies" so I pointed out that if she was in a relationship with someone surely they would do other things than that, ie go to the theatre, out to eat, walks, whatever? She asked me what I thought of on line dating and I gave her my views on it, not that I have ever tried it.

It was like being with a teenage girl with a one track mind. So I am sticking to this. I will talk to her twice a week - weekend and midweek - for half an hour and that's it. It was not the sort of catch-up I want with a friend. Do you think I'm being unreasonable/judgemental? It made me feel really sad and depressed. I don't want to lose her as a friend - we met at the age of 11 - but this kind of carry on is absolutely stupid. She thinks every interaction with a man is sexually charged and it is childish beyond belief. I blame too much celebrity rubbish on the box myself! I would love to help her, but I can't because she does what she wants. Doesn't eat properly, drinks too much and spends all day on Facebook and listening to music. Sorry for the rant. I really hope this counselling helps her because this is just not good.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Have !you given her a hug?
A few years ago I was in a really bad place and one of the things I was desperate for was a hug. Someone to hold me and let me sob. To tell me everything would be ok. I was drinking excessively to try and numb the heartache I felt, the pain, emptiness and loneliness is something I still find hard to explain.

I dumped my friends in the end because of their judgements. I was young free and single afterall a d was getting more support from random people than these so called friends. Some have since tried to get friendly with me again, but the shit they said to my face and behind my back I cannot go back. Because now as far as I'm concerned that's how they tru!y see me. And what hurt more was I thought one in particular was a really good friend and when she had become widowed at a young age I was there by her side supporting her through it all even through her drugs, clubbing and loads of men stage.

Along with therapy and medication it was an amazing guy from Tinder who helped me through it. He understood although I seemed desperate for intimacy it wasn't what I wanted. I wanted tlc. I wanted validation from men to disprove all the shit my ex had said to me. We would spend hours in silence with him just holding me and sometimes getting his top serious!y snotted on. Still good friends with him now.

Depression and shock are cunts. Couldn't even concentrate on short programmes never mind films.

As someone who has been led to believe I was a fat ugly useless waste of space getting that match from some amazingly drop dead gorgeous blokes was a massive rush. Some did lead me on which infuriated me because they created the situation yet I was the bad guy for going along with it.

@Sandra15 you’ve done exactly the right thing and you sound like a wonderful friend - she’s become over-reliant probably because she knows you are caring and sensible! Please don’t feel bad about preserving yourself and setting boundaries.

OP,
Very difficult situation for your friend and yourself.

You can only give what you have to give.

An hours phone call is a lot, particularly if she is hard of hearing.

I think gently telling her you are concerned about her and very firmly sticking to your routine.

You sound exhausted by her and not everyone has an endless supply of patience at the moment.

You have been a great friend to her.
Letting out a bit of steam after 6 months is not the worst thing in the world.

It would be a shame to lose the friendship.

Step back.
What a twat she was married to.
She is trying to process so much.

She could be furious at herself at tolerating so much for so long.

Irrespective of what she is going through, you can only give so much.

Take care of yourself too.

I've been in a similar position to your friend. My ex didn't die but the relationship did and I couldn't accept it.

I wasn't quite as bad - I don't drink for sure - but I did engage in some risky behaviour. I had a good friend who supported me through this, but I knew she was uncomfortable with my 'stories'. My therapist said she thought I was 'regressing'. I had an answer for everything though. I couldn't hear.

Some years on I see now that my behaviour was a mixture of denial, anger and buried grief. You try and smother these feelings with what you feel is 'life force', but really you are engaging in a form of self punishment. Your friend sounds like she is driving towards a cliff edge. And maybe she has to go over - but in the meantime you could sow seeds and also set your own boundaries.

I doubt you friend will listen much, but you could try stating some boundaries she might be able to apply, or at least make her aware that they should exist. Number one being: not to engage in behaviour that hurts or has the potential to hurt anyone else. You could also make it clear you find pursuit of men already in relationships or with a family destructive and unethical. Be plain and tough.

Good luck. I can see this must be very trying and worrying.

I'm shocked you're younger than me op, you sound extremely uptight about sex and sexuality. I also hope your friend doesn't use mum's due to the huge amount of personal and extremely identifying information you've given regarding her situation.

The language you use about the woman you've known since childhood is really blunt and uncaring. She's experienced huge trauma and she's reacting to grief in an extremely unhealthy way. I did something similar but for me it was unhealthy spending on credit which caused me a lot of problems.

Have you once tried to talk to her in a caring way about how some of this might not be good for her??

Stop being so judgy and support your friend. Her world has been rocked

@Canigooutyet your story sounds similar to hers in some ways, ie the lack of concentration is what she reports, and thanks for sharing your experience. It's a shame people talked behind your back, that is really unfair and two-faced. I've no intention of doing that with my friend hence my coming here to vent. It's more a case of having to share information to get advice and opinions, rather than judging.

This is a smart, intelligent woman who was at college with me and won one of the Student of the Year awards, who's just in a bad place and needs support - but that support has to be of the right kind.

I hope you're in a good place now.

@BilboBercow I'm not uptight, but neither am I a casual sex person. But it's about my friend, not me, and it's the complete change in personality and behaviour as a result of grief in her that's the shocker and makes me concerned she's going to get badly hurt, endanger her health (not necessarily sexual health; mixing booze and not eating correctly when you're diabetic isn't the smartest thing to do) and feel even worse than she does now.

The reason I've spoken so freely here is to give the facts rather than be blunt, uncaring or judgemental. I don't speak like that to her, but I have given my opinion to her (in more gentle terms) when she's asked me what I think about her conversations with Tom, Dick or Harry. The usual - be sensible, you don't know them etc. She is immensely vulnerable.

I lost my partner suddenly in 2018 and went into a spiral for about a year after his death. I was in a terrible place and I was incredibly self destructive.

As you're bubbling with her @Sandra15, can you give her a hug? Tell her that you love her - as a friend - and that you'll be round to give her a hug twice a week, on condition she doesn't look for hugs elsewhere?

I have a friend in a similar situation, and although she's not about to self destruct in quite the same way, I see the toll this is having on her mentally and physically. Its very hard, and really takes it out of you.

I saw myself in your posts and that's what led me to share from the other side.

Yes I am recovered from what triggered that, although some possibly don't agree as I really found out that I enjoy casual sex more than being in a relationship. I'm older than you guys as well!

As her friend you can only invest in what you are comfortable with as you have discovered, as mh is hard on everyone not just that person. And if you didn't give a shit you wouldn't be on here trying to find how to help her whilst protecting yourself.

When I'm I see the mh team I'm sometimes asked about mates and they ask if there's anyone I would like to bring along to the session even over the phone as a conference call. I have live long mh issues. Could that be a possibility so you can raise your concerns in a controlled way? But I suppose it also depends what she has put in her care plan.

@Canigooutyet What a good idea. I might suggest that, either me, or one of her sisters.

I work full time from home in a demanding job, am writing a book, and I have evening Pilates, yoga, Zumba and the like every evening plus I do a weekly pub quiz and three separate monthly book groups (all on Zoom atm) so my time is limited when you factor in caring for the house, my cats and contact with other friends. But I'm doing my best to support her. When she feels better she might want to join in with the quiz or the book groups. She was a very avid reader before all this kicked off. I can but ask!

Thanks so much for your candour and concern btw.

@DeeCeeCherry

She's only 6 months bereaved and you as her "friend" is on MN criticising her? Wow.
Asking for advice and giving the details, rather than criticising, so I can get sound advice (hopefully)

If you don't like her way of trying to cope then yes, please do distance yourself. Better than setting yourself up as judge and jury.
Her way of trying to cope is to get regularly pissed, not eat, drunk dial exes and run the risk of a diabetic coma. Do you like that way of coping, because I sure don't. Distancing myself means cutting down daily one hour phone calls to twice a week.

Hopefully she has other friends who will be more understanding, and there for both the highs and the lows.
She doesn't have any other proper friends apart from un-understanding little old me, just the 'you ok hun' brigade on FB, who she's not seen since leaving school, and her two sisters (who have not really bothered with her but are now helping her more, as I have told them I am concerned about her). She cut herself off from everyone when she was married.

I've had friends who've been bereaved and it wouldn't even occur to me to write such a cutting post. Then again I suppose it may suit drama lovers who haven't experienced losing their lifepartner + had a money shock alongside so, they can give smug advice
I don't give her smug advice. I just listen. I came on here for non-smug advice. If such a thing exists

Thanks for your input.

Ignore the criticism, OP. I know that I was a colossal pain in the arse in early bereavement and acting out terribly.

If your friend is under 50 point her towards www.widowedandyoung.org.uk/

It's a membership organisation for anyone who has lost a spouse or partner and has very active Facebook pages. She could also look up something called 'widow's fire'...

Hi OP - glad to hear you have spoken to her sisters and put in boundaries that feels right for you.

I think your initial post was cutting and sounded judgemental but your additional posts have clarified that isn’t how you meant it and are worried/seeking advice. Unsure why people are still going on at you about it or calling you a bad friend.

Hope you are doing okay yourself. It is a challenging situation and I think you’ve had some sound advice since I last checked in.

@gracefull

Hi OP - glad to hear you have spoken to her sisters and put in boundaries that feels right for you.

I think your initial post was cutting and sounded judgemental but your additional posts have clarified that isn’t how you meant it and are worried/seeking advice. Unsure why people are still going on at you about it or calling you a bad friend.

Hope you are doing okay yourself. It is a challenging situation and I think you’ve had some sound advice since I last checked in.

Thankyou, I have called her today for a catch up, but though she sounded ok and chatty, she's been constantly phoning a chap she met on a music FB group. They swapped numbers and now he's sick of her constantly calling him. Not much we can do except be there if and when the fallout happens, I guess. Talking the hind legs off some bloke on Facebook will only make her feel worse when they eventually block her.

It's good she is getting professional support because she sounds like she is in an awful place.

It's different I know, but when I went through a traumatic break up, I was obsessive about what had happened. Talked non stop about it. It took well over a year until I started controlling myself and working on recovering.

I really think your friend needs to hear how she is worthy of love and good things, and that a better life is out there for her but it takes time. You need your headspace too so its probably a good move to stop the daily contact x

@PrincessTuna - great name my cats would love you! You need your headspace too so its probably a good move to stop the daily contact x

Yep, twice a week chats now but others are chatting with her. Spoke to her Sunday and will call again tomorrow or Thursday. It seems to be one step forward and two steps back - she posts on Facebook that she is crying all the time and can't stop, even with all the counselling. Yes you are right it will take time. Also had a diabetic hypo so that concerns me - saw it all on Facebook so I'm going to have to call tomorrow as I am concerned.

Now she's been 'chatting' with a guy from a FB group, a milkman, lives 130 miles away. Swapped numbers, now he has had to tell her to stop phoning him.

No other 'real' friends but me, other than ex-schoolfriends she's found on FB. This is the alarm bell for me - she says she rings these blokes because it's just a bit of fun and she wants someone to talk to. But it's more than that.