Parent / dc relationship, dc not close with dh?

[Handydandydiamonds]

My dc, aged 5 and 11, are much much closer to me than to DH. Some of this is circumstances I suppose - I stayed at home with dc1 until he went to school and then the same with dc2. I work four days a week but I’ve fixed my hours to mainly fit in with school and don’t have a lunch break so that dc2 isn’t in after school club too long. I have always done all the caring, the nighttime waking, when they were ill, getting up in the morning, bedtimes, bath times, meals, taking them to clubs, days out, school runs, assemblies etc. DH has always used Saturdays to play golf so the dc and I have gone out on our own or with friends.

They are now fairly disrespectful to DH at times. I think dc1 started it and dc2 copies. Dc1 will say he hates DH sometimes and is very offhand about him. Says he’s more interested in his ‘stupid golf’ and although sometimes craves dh’s attention is largely not that interested. Dc2 does things like refuse to hug DH when he asks for a hug and made a list of people she loved and he wasn’t on it. I said - you love daddy and she said no, he’s almost on the list but not quite. Her friends and teacher were on the list. Me. Her grandparents. Her brother.
She frequently tells me she loves me the most and it enrages DH. If he says he loves her and she won’t say it back he keeps saying it over and over until she returns it. Or he gets angry and says well I won’t do X for you then.
It makes me sad that there seems to be this division. It feels like me and the dc vs DH. DH went to MiL’s (bubble) and dd wouldn’t go with him and he got really angry. He’s never taken the dc anywhere apart from to MiL’s. He wouldn’t take them to the park or anything on his own. Some of this is time, I mean he works five days a week - but then add in Saturday always being golf and he really doesn’t have a lot of time. Sunday he doesn’t get up very early.
I know DH is upset by it but it manifests as anger.
Is it normal when one parent is the primary carer for it to be with way? My own mum was primary carer and I was closer to her but I loved my dad and was always happy to spend time with him.

I’m just interest to know if this is the ‘norm’ - if there is such a thing, or if basically because it’s my norm I’ve just become worn down and accepting of it.
How much should I expect DH to do, basically. They don’t feel like his children, only mine.

He's done this to himself. I have a father (I use the term loosely) who never ever did the things for us our mum did, which is why I always wanted and loved her, not him. He used to get pissy about it aswell, but I remember being a child and probably having much much less insight into the reasons why I didn't want him and just disliking him. He didn't invest any time or care into us. My mum did bath time, all of our meals, took us out, paid attention to our school stuff. Children pick up on this and this is how it presents, the kids will probably grow up not being that bothered about their father. I'm 24 now and I have very very little contact with him atall.

He should want to do at least half the labour of parenting, of course. He should want to be around his offspring and raise them. Obviously. How could you possibly think otherwise? This is mind boggling.

abeanbaked are your parents still together?

I’m grateful for anything that my DH does 🙄.

I have been the primary caregiver to both my kids for the last 8 years, I'm a sahm and do 95% of parenting as DH works long hours and has spent years fixing up the house. Both my boys adore their dad and will always choose him over me when he's around! But he has always put in a lot of effort to play with them and do things with them, take them out on trips etc whenever he's had the chance to.

@Handydandydiamonds they are together in the sense that they live together and still share a last name, they do not function as a couple atall and have not done for a long time. There's a lot of resentment there, my dad being a shit father caused a lot of issues between us kids (3 of us) and them, my mum would get tired and want a break, we wouldn't want to be left with him because we didn't know or particularly like the man and then we would get upset and wonder why our mum wanted a little break from us.

There are other reasons they are unhappy but he has always put himself before his family and now he has three grown up children, one grandchild and another on the way and none of us have an interest in him atall to be honest.

And I strongly suggest that if my mum was a stronger woman who wasn't brought up in similar circumstances she would have left.

Its shit coming from a long line of women who see leaving their even more shit husbands as the failing of themselves.

You have become worn down by it, it isnt the norm and itisnt acceptable he is a terrible husband and awful father why do you stay?

Your daughter is telling you how bad he is

So your kids don't like their excessively angry Father who would rather knock a tiny ball about in a pink polo shirt than spend time with them?

I think he sounds like an unlovable arsehole too.

And no, it's not normal. Children who have Fathers who show interest,offer love and care and don't walk about in a state of heightened anger just love their Dads and want to be with them.

As PP have said - it’s not normal. Your H is reaping the consequences of showing no interest in his children. Not too late to put it right though.

This was my family growing up. Although my dad worked long hours, which your husband doesn't. My dad would usually get home between 7-9 pm, having left before we were awake. He worked hard, but he was a workaholic and he definitely prioritised his job over us when he didn't always need to. Then weekends he would spend doing almost anything apart from being with us. Never golf or a hobby. Always something that "needed to be done", but in reality could have waited or been left. Like "sorting out the garage" for the millionth weekend in a row. He avoided us.
He didn't know what school years we were in, who our friends were, what we liked to eat etc. It was always mum or our grandparents who took us places, got us ready for holidays etc.
My family was dysfunctional and toxic in many, many ways and this particular aspect of it was quite a big part. I don't have a close relationship with either of my parents now and tbh if I could think of a way to go NC without massive repercussions then I'd do it in a flash, no questions.

My dad worked 6 days a week when we were kids, and my mum was self employed and technically the sole carer, although we spent a lot of time with her father. My dad's parents not so much. I always knew he loved us, he was interested in us, he came to school events and kept up to speed with friends and gave us lifts, taught us to drive.

I remember him seeing a lot of his friends, and had a better social life than my mum, but now she's gone, I am glad that he has old friends and company and people to relive memories with.

I can't say I knew him really well until I was an adult. We have similar interests and I find him interesting, but I think that's because it was always important to him to be there for us. Always interested in us. Yes, he worked 6 days a week, I see now he was providing for us, but Sunday was always our day, us without mum, probably to give her a break! He took us mountain climbing, rode us for hundreds of miles on bikes, fishing, swimming, to see his parents, to see his friends & their kids, we were up early on a Sunday and out, and home on time for lunch, even if lunch was 5.30pm, there was no concept of time on a Sunday, but you knew it was coming to an end when he bought the paper in the way home, he was getting ready to clock off, eat his dinner, read the paper and have a beer, while we had a bath and got ready for school.

My dad probably thought he was better with the boys, but he taught me all the DIY I need to know, how to clean my shoes, and he dried my hair with the hairdryer every Sunday which would have been a mammoth task for him.

Your husband doesn't have to book Disneyland, he just needs to be present, find common ground and take it from there. Earn trust! Mind you're not running him down to the kids, and let them see the nice bits of your relationship if there are some. My child wrecks our cuddles, because I'm not allowed to hug her daddy, or her daddy isn't allowed to hug me, but it's fun. It's good for them to see an adult relationship and how it works.

If they're being rude to him, call them out on it, that's bad manners, regardless if you think he deserves it, they can't be allowed to bully their dad. Ask him why he thinks they speak to him like that, agree it's not acceptable, but he does need to parent, not act like a lodger. Tell him why he deserves it, he can't just make guest appearances in the family and expect to pick up from that nice week you had in Tenerife 4 years ago.

If lockdown hasn't changed him though, I doubt anything will. I work 6 days a week in the same profession as my dad did, but I don't have a wife or mum at home to do all the stuff. My husband and I are equals, I am number 1 parent 60% of the time, him 40%. I run, I'd love to run more, but typically a mother can't, or doesn't want to opt out of family life or time with her children. Unfortunately a father can, or does want to. If he's not coming to the party and you want him to, tell him. I think he should know, but his reaction will tell you all you need to know about the family and the relationship going forward.

To be frank NO it’s not normal OP. Your children shouldn’t be disrespectful to your DH however you do sound like the only parent in the house.

Are you sure your husband is seeing his mother on a sat and sun? Is there a valid reason.

What about the school holidays? Doesn’t your DH book time off of work to help out?

Nope it's not normal at all.

DH worked locally so got home 5ish he would cuddle/look after the kids whilst I hid in the kitchen. We ate together and then we got them ready for bed together etc.

I did the night feeds when they were babies as breastfed. Then he did it and if they were ill it was shared.

I used to get up first 99% of the time but her would get up only an hour or so later. He has always needed more sleep than me (I am an insomniac).

Weekends he often to them to the local playground on his own, we would have days out together etc. He would have 4-6 weekends away per year for his hobby but he often came home for the Saturday night to help put them to bed/clear up/do whatever and the go back Sunday morning after helping in the morning.

He is an equal parent. If I died he could run the house etc. We manage Drs and dentists and parents evenings between us.

3 are teens and the eldest in her 20s and left home.

I'm not sure what the point of your H is and how you can not feel utter resentment for him doing f*ck all to contribute.

I think that if your dh is not abusive, it would be better for your dc to facilitate the relationship, so to tell your dh what to do, set up days out for all of you, set up game playing time, tell your dh to make an effort, show more interest.

What you dc are expressing might well in fact be pain that they do not feel loved by your dh, even it sounds like disinterest or disrespect. I think you know how to parent, and your dh needs to be taught, for the sake of your dc.

If they're being rude to him, call them out on it, that's bad manners, regardless if you think he deserves it I absolutely agree with this too.

If he says he loves her and she won’t say it back he keeps saying it over and over until she returns it.

This makes your husband sound extremely unemotionally aware.

He sounds like a crap father.

Have you ever sat down and talked to him about how it works with a parent and time and love and the basics!??

He really sounds ridiculous and clueless. Which is so sad for your kids.

Hmm. If he doesn't put the time in, what does he expect? As a child you know when people like you and are interested in you. I remember knowing that and it's a long time since I was a child. My father worked very long hours and sometimes including weekends. I did (do) love him but the times he spent with us were few and far between. Even on holiday he would play for a bit then give up.

I saw my family as my mum and siblings basically. As a teen I gave him a hard time and went through a period of deliberately ignoring him. However he was never nasty to me about it, just glad when we finally developed a better relationship. (And I realised that I loved him, something I had doubted for a long time).

In our family DH has played as big a parenting role as I have. He has worked from home most of the time so has been there for school runs, events appointments etc. And we always went out as a family at weekends when they were younger. Now they come to each of us equally - some issues might lead them to talk to me rather than him (both girls) but he certainly had a good relationship with them.

Your DH will reap what he sows.

I don't think I agree that the childrens' manners need to be made a focal point of the situation or that they should be "called out". I'm assuming they are generally well-mannered kids, and that it's therefore a safe assumption that their attitude towards their father is a reaction to the way he treats them, which is with complete and utter indifference in his actions, and by leaving them with no doubt that they are the very bottom of his list of priorities. I mean, he works all week and then his priority is to play golf or visit his mother rather than to spend time with them.
They are angry and hurt and probably dealing with feelings of inadequacy that they don't understand. Rather than try to "deal with" their behaviour - which stems from very legitimate and valid feelings - I think it's probably better to throw all your attention (or your husband's attention) into fixing the relationship with his children and making them his priority. If he steps up and becomes a proper father to them, the rudeness will stop. You need to see their behaviour as a cry for help rather than just an inconvenience. Does your husband just want the appearance of nice family relationships when it suits him for an hour or two a week, or does he want the kids to genuinely have a bond with him? If it's the former, sure you can focus on their "rudeness". If it's the latter, then the rudeness is a symptom which will subside when he addresses the root cause - HIS failure to be present and involved in his childrens' lives.

@IWantT0BreakFree

I don't think I agree that the childrens' manners need to be made a focal point of the situation or that they should be "called out". I'm assuming they are generally well-mannered kids, and that it's therefore a safe assumption that their attitude towards their father is a reaction to the way he treats them, which is with complete and utter indifference in his actions, and by leaving them with no doubt that they are the very bottom of his list of priorities. I mean, he works all week and then his priority is to play golf or visit his mother rather than to spend time with them. They are angry and hurt and probably dealing with feelings of inadequacy that they don't understand. Rather than try to "deal with" their behaviour - which stems from very legitimate and valid feelings - I think it's probably better to throw all your attention (or your husband's attention) into fixing the relationship with his children and making them his priority. If he steps up and becomes a proper father to them, the rudeness will stop. You need to see their behaviour as a cry for help rather than just an inconvenience. Does your husband just want the appearance of nice family relationships when it suits him for an hour or two a week, or does he want the kids to genuinely have a bond with him? If it's the former, sure you can focus on their "rudeness". If it's the latter, then the rudeness is a symptom which will subside when he addresses the root cause - HIS failure to be present and involved in his childrens' lives.

My point to the OP is, be the adult, you wouldn't let them speak to your parents, his parents like that, don't encourage, even by omission, to speak to their parent like that. The roles could easily be reversed, dad steps up, becomes Disney dad, regains popularity, and mum is sh*t on the shoe. Kids can be temperamental. Deserved or not, don't let them divide you. If he's dividing you, separating the family, tell him. He's the adult. If the kids think then can speak down to their dad, there are massive problems within this family. Yes, they may well be modelling how dad speaks to them, they may also be modeling how mum speaks to dad. If you are angry with DH, have it out. It's not up to the kids to fight your battles, or be the messenger. If you are not angry with DH, why not? Has apathy got the better of you? Is it time to divorce? The kids are likely hurting, can you talk to the kids about their feelings? When is it ever acceptably to be hurtful and unkind? Is this something you want them to take into their adult relationship s? Did he start it? Are you the only adult in this house? Something needs to change.

@IWantT0BreakFree

I don't think I agree that the childrens' manners need to be made a focal point of the situation or that they should be "called out". I'm assuming they are generally well-mannered kids, and that it's therefore a safe assumption that their attitude towards their father is a reaction to the way he treats them, which is with complete and utter indifference in his actions, and by leaving them with no doubt that they are the very bottom of his list of priorities. I mean, he works all week and then his priority is to play golf or visit his mother rather than to spend time with them. They are angry and hurt and probably dealing with feelings of inadequacy that they don't understand. Rather than try to "deal with" their behaviour - which stems from very legitimate and valid feelings - I think it's probably better to throw all your attention (or your husband's attention) into fixing the relationship with his children and making them his priority. If he steps up and becomes a proper father to them, the rudeness will stop. You need to see their behaviour as a cry for help rather than just an inconvenience. Does your husband just want the appearance of nice family relationships when it suits him for an hour or two a week, or does he want the kids to genuinely have a bond with him? If it's the former, sure you can focus on their "rudeness". If it's the latter, then the rudeness is a symptom which will subside when he addresses the root cause - HIS failure to be present and involved in his childrens' lives.

The problem is they will be judged by others for the rudeness, and it might become a pattern of behavious for dealing with those feelings in other situations. You can both validate the feelings and teach other ways of dealing. I agree about paying attention to fixing the relationship though.

@Handydandydiamonds

I’m just interest to know if this is the ‘norm’ - if there is such a thing, or if basically because it’s my norm I’ve just become worn down and accepting of it. How much should I expect DH to do, basically. They don’t feel like his children, only mine.

Definitely not normal, nor healthy.

You work four days a week outside the home and then come home to another full time job as a parent while he dicks about.

I've heard a suggestion about making a list of all the domestic and parenting duties then noting down who is currently responsible for what... Maybe seeing it in black and white will open his eyes?

No, it's not the norm. He is stroppy, grumpy, angry, lazy, demanding, boundary pushing and disinterested. Your children see him for what he is and quite rightly don't like him. He can get annoyed at them as much as he likes, that's not going to make it any better for him. No adult would like someone who treated them like this but still weirdly demanded to be told they were loved. It sounds like you have a lovely time with them on your own, what is the point of this husband to you?

Yeah, that was my father too. There was other toxic stuff going on in my family (e.g. my mother was always extremely controlling of DB and me) but my father was undeniably a shit dad. He’s ended up pretty lonely although I still don’t think he really “gets” how badly he messed up. For instance, he is angry and resentful that he has barely had any contact with my DB’s kids, without considering that, as a father, he was always either absent or angry, or that he should put more work into trying to win back DB’s trust if he wants a good relationship with his grandkids.