Is it important to have a baby to "complete our family" together?

[gr2405]

I've been with my partner for around 5 years now. I have a DD8 from a previous relationship who lives with us, and he has DS9 and DD6 with his ex-wife who stay one night a week, plus every other weekend. DP has been talking for a couple of years about having a child together to, in his words, "complete our family".

I am not totally against the idea of having another and the romantic idea of having a baby with DP definitely appeals. But at the same time when I think about it in practical terms, there are lots of reasons why we shouldn't. We live in a fairly small 3 bed house, which costs us next to nothing as we rent from a family member. It already feels like a bit of a squash when all three kids are there so we would have to move and increase our outgoings by a significant amount. Neither of us earn a huge amount of money so a new house plus childcare costs would be a struggle financially. Realistically it will probably make more sense for me to stop working for a while - I'm not massively career driven but I do like my current workplace and feel sad at the prospect of leaving. Added to that, I finally feel like we both have a bit of our lives back after the intensity and exhaustion of raising very small children and I am not filled with joy at the prospect of starting all over. Of course these are just the usual sacrifices we all make to have kids, but I just wonder if it is really worth going through it when we already have 3 kids to think about.

But DH is totally convinced that this is the right thing for us, and I can feel myself getting caught up in his enthusiasm, daydreaming about baby names and newborn cuddles. We're late 30s so it is now or never - decision time! Has anyone been in this situation and gone on to have another child? Did you feel like it was an important thing to do together, or alternatively did you regret it and wish you'd stuck with the status quo?

I wonder if part of this is because both of you don’t really see yourselves as a proper committed family yet, one another’s kids are technically no relation to you at all, legally you’re roommates. You don’t both have stepkids and kids, just your respective children.

As I said above, I think you should be marrying before even considering any more kids. If he wants to ‘complete the family’ that’ll do it.

@category12

I'd also like to know how he was very "hands on" if he left when his youngest was still a baby. Easy to be hands on when it's only for short periods.

I wondered too. Short of abuse, something has to go really, really wrong to split up your family before your little one is even potty trained. Obviously we don’t know whose decision that was and why, but I’d never consider procreating with a guy whose family broke down when their child was still so tiny. Unless I knew for a fact that she had destroyed it. Which you’d never know, the full truth.

I assume that your boyfriend’s wish to have a baby does not extend to actually getting married and giving you legal and financial protection? It seems like you’re the one who’d give up everything.

Is he one of these men who insists that he’s “traditional” and wants a little woman at home to raise his kids and wash his socks, but isn’t traditional when it comes to marriage?

Was he married to the mother of his children?

How might his kids feel, seeing him as Daddy to a new baby that lives with him full time?

How do you think your Dd will react to a new baby in the family that has Mummy and Daddy?

‘Completing a family’ can also cause strain and discord.

@VodselForDinner

I assume that your boyfriend’s wish to have a baby does not extend to actually getting married and giving you legal and financial protection? It seems like you’re the one who’d give up everything.

Is he one of these men who insists that he’s “traditional” and wants a little woman at home to raise his kids and wash his socks, but isn’t traditional when it comes to marriage?

Was he married to the mother of his children?

It does seem really odd that they feel they’re at the point where another child makes sense, but not at a point where they are ready for marriage! OP said he has an ex wife so obviously it’s not that marriage itself is a problem for him. Not sure about OP.

OP said he has an ex wife so obviously it’s not that marriage itself is a problem for him

But OP also referred to the man as her own husband so his “ex-wife” may not have been someone he was married to.

Short of abuse, something has to go really, really wrong to split up your family before your little one is even potty trained. Obviously we don’t know whose decision that was and why, but I’d never consider procreating with a guy whose family broke down when their child was still so tiny. Unless I knew for a fact that she had destroyed it. Which you’d never know, the full truth.

This is a great point, @LavenderLollies.
He went from having a baby with his ex to split-up and in a new relationship all within a year.

@gr2405, was he single when you met?

He is totally up for taking shared parental leave so I wouldn't have to take so much time off work - but once that is up I do think I would end up giving up work as childcare would just swallow my wage.

This is worrying, OP, especially as you aren't even married. Please don't give up your career.

From what you've said, he isn't a high earner so probably wouldn't be able to just absorb the cost of childcare in his salary. Would he be willing for you to both go part time? Or for him to SAH? Or is he just assuming that you would take the hit to your career when the shared parental leave comes to an end? And if he is willing to go part time/SAH, how will this impact on his ability to support his existing children?

Personally, I wouldn't have another baby in your circumstances. You clearly can't afford it and it would be unfair on your existing three children. It really isn't necessary or desirable for people to produce babies with each new relationship. It sounds to me like he just hasn't thought through the practicalities. You have, and deep down, you know it isn't a good plan.

I agree with PP that as all seems to be going well currently and you have a job and a deposit for a house and there'd be a big age gap it doesn't seem like a great idea.

I also agree that in the absence of marriage it's a very bad idea.

He left his ex when his baby was still in nappies! You’re not even married, there is no way I would do that

Why does he have so little contact with his eldest two DC? Your DP seems inconsiderate of their interests, since having DC4 is not likely to benefit them.

Whatever you decide, don’t stop work!

Why would childcare swallow your wage? Why wouldn't your partner pay too?

Even if childcare would equal or exceed your wage, you shouldn't throw away a career for the sake of the pre school years, especially once the free nursery hours kick in.

I always think it such a short term view when people say this, as re-entering the job market is harder than riding the storm for the brief period between mat leave and 3yo.

I do need to defend DP a bit here - he split with his ex-wife because she cheated on him, both before and after his DD was born with another man that she is now married to (his DD is unmistakably his daughter though as they look incredibly similar thankfully!). We don’t just have them every other weekend, we also have them overnight every Wednesday. Sure he would love to have them more but his ex understandably wants to have a weekend with them too, and she lives a good 20mins closer to their school. She doesn’t work so picks them up afterwards, whereas we both work so they would have to go to after school/breakfast club if they were with us more often. Which is not impossible of course, but it seems easier for everyone to spend the bulk of the school week with their mum.

Neither of us are fussed on marriage. We’ve both been there, done that and it didn’t work out. Maybe one day we will go to a registry office and make things official, but it just isn’t on our agenda at all right now. Our salaries go into a joint account, savings are held jointly and any future house would be in both our names. We both have wills in case of the worst.

So it really just comes down to the fact that he wants a baby and feels it is important thing for him, whereas I am on the fence, leaning towards a no. It is head vs heart really, and head is winning for me

You are a family. NO, wouldn't have another just because he wants to mark his territory by procreating with every partner and never if you can't afford to continue working FT and have financial independence because you are not married if he's 'DP'. NO FUCKING WAY!

All you have to do is read this board, every week, every few days, a woman who's given up her financial independence for 'DP' and is in the shit.

It's a hell no from me

And stop bloody defending your 'DP'. Defend yourself. You don't want another baby, you can't afford another one without giving up FT work (why the bloody hell would you be paying all the childcare), he already has two kids he needs to focus on.

Sorry, but it doesn't sound like the best idea to me. Also, whatever you decide to do, I'd advise you not to leave your job - even if you get married. You've mentioned that neither of you are, earning huge amounts, so please consider what would happen if you and DP split and he had to pay support to three children. It wouldn't be very much.

Neither of us are fussed on marriage. We’ve both been there, done that and it didn’t work out. Maybe one day we will go to a registry office and make things official, but it just isn’t on our agenda at all right now. Our salaries go into a joint account, savings are held jointly and any future house would be in both our names. We both have wills in case of the worst.
If you're not fussed on marriage (as is your right) then I would strongly suggest you get proper financial and legal advice before you do anything that might mean you lose your financial independence.
Nobody likes to think relationships might go wrong, but if you're not married then it's very easy for one party to end up shafted.

@AnaofBroceliande I kind of do need to defend him from the assumption that he abandoned his small children because he couldn't be arsed looking after them, that he wants to force me into servitude by making me have a baby against my will and pushing me out of work. That's not the case - he has expressed an opinion which is that he wants another child, I have expressed my opinion which is that I am not sure. If I say no he will be disappointed but will accept my decision.

The point about my salary is that I only take home around £1200pm, so full time childcare will pretty much cancel that out. I obviously wouldn't be paying it myself but it is definitely a relevant consideration as to whether it would be worth my while. I'm not a particularly career driven person, I had a long break after I had my daughter so would not be giving up long service, lots of experience etc. I could do it, but just feel like my preference would be to focus on our house and the kids we have

You would be a fool to give up your job if you're not married. Tbh, I wouldn't recommend it even if you were married.

It's pretty easy for your DP to be relaxed about the practicalities of having a child if you would be the one carrying most of the risks and consequences. I think you should find out if he would be equally keen to "complete the family" if he knew that he would need to share the risks and the burdens equally. I suspect not.

If he is serious about having a baby what has he done to make that possible OP? Any career advancement, retraining, study or overtime, anything to improve your financial position to make it possible? From the information you have given it would be a no from me, you are only in the position you are right now as you pay rent under market rate because of renting from a relative, their circumstances could change at any point and force you to pay a going rate in a new place at short notice. I wonder if the luxury of that cheaper rent has warped the reality of your financial situation for your DP. Combined with three children already in the mix I would be saying no to another.

The point about my salary is that I only take home around £1200pm, so full time childcare will pretty much cancel that out.

Children need childcare for 4 years. There's no guarantee you'd get another job paying that much after a break. You're better off staying in employment, earning payrises (even if they're small), building up pension contributions and employee rights, even if your income is minimal.

[quote gr2405]@AnaofBroceliande I kind of do need to defend him from the assumption that he abandoned his small children because he couldn't be arsed looking after them, that he wants to force me into servitude by making me have a baby against my will and pushing me out of work. That's not the case - he has expressed an opinion which is that he wants another child, I have expressed my opinion which is that I am not sure. If I say no he will be disappointed but will accept my decision.

The point about my salary is that I only take home around £1200pm, so full time childcare will pretty much cancel that out. I obviously wouldn't be paying it myself but it is definitely a relevant consideration as to whether it would be worth my while. I'm not a particularly career driven person, I had a long break after I had my daughter so would not be giving up long service, lots of experience etc. I could do it, but just feel like my preference would be to focus on our house and the kids we have[/quote]
The problem here is that you never would gain the benefits of long service or lots of experience if you gave up work again - it's very tempting to give up work when you're on a lowish income and the costs of childcare seem to balance out what you earn.

But it's short-term thinking and it stops you from progressing and gaining those long term benefits, adding to your pension pot, loses any chances to advance/train or skill up within the job and essentially when you do go back, you're starting all over again on the same rung or lower, but older and with more out of date skills.

In the meantime, your partner continues his job (and even if he's not career motivated either and is never going to be a high achiever or earner), he still has the steady income, the gaining of experience and seniority, the growth of his pension pot, keeping his skills and experience current.

So the gap between your relative incomes can grow massively. Which is fine if all stays good between you and you never part, and he doesn't die intestate and makes sure you're OK in the event he dies. But it leaves you in a far worse position if you end up splitting. Marriage at least gives you a chance of being set on your feet if you've been a SAHP. If you're not married, you've basically swallowed all the costs and risks and come out much worse.

Why does your DP not see you as a complete family already? I would find that quite hurtful, and I am sure your children would too. Why are they not enough for him? It also puts a huge amount of pressure on the child you bring in to the relationship. No child should be viewed as completing a family. Have a child because you want to, not because you think they can fill a hole in your family.

100% agree with category. And to tofu as well, totally spot on. I'd make bloody sure there were no accidents or 'falling' pregnant.