42 and childless

[40somethingsingle]

Forgive me if I’m posting on the wrong forum, but am feeling a little lost right now. I was with my ex for 5 years and he was adamant that he didn’t want kids, I wanted to be with him so I came round to the idea that I’d never be a mum. Fast forward and he left me for someone else (a younger woman) they are now expecting their first child. This also happened to me in two previous relationships, I feel like I am always the one before the one. All of my friends are married and have children and I’m starting to feel like perhaps I am the problem and just not settling down material. I have been dating some one for the past year, but due to covid and lockdown our relationship hasn’t been conventional. For a start, I am the only one working and I have an uneasy feeling that when life gets back to normal he will be off meeting somebody better and history will repeat itself all over again. I am currently financially supporting us both (I also did this in the final year of my last relationship due to him wanting a career change) and I don’t know if I am just completely naive or completely insecure and being a fool or just an easy target. I’m very aware that I am about to turn 43 and have missed the boat on the children front. Has anyone else felt this way? Is there anyone on here around my age and is happily childless and single? My self esteem is pretty low right now. Thank you for reading my post

@40somethingsingle I wish you lots of strength and determination, if you are in UK and as - hopefully - life returns to normal - just get out there and do it. You need to communicate very clearly to your bf, VERY clearly. Be proud of what you want, you’ve got nothing to feel ashamed of - and turn every ‘no’ into a ‘yes’. There are so many opportunities out there - and life IS beautiful, whatever you decide to do.

@FerrisWheelTrain isn't that just the term for it? "Embryo destruction"

What would you prefer it be called?

Embryo flushing?

Embryo Cancellation?

Embryo ending?

You’ve had some wise advice here already, OP, but just to add that some therapy might help you explore any repeating patterns in your relationships and what they may mean for you. Often, though obviously not always, a woman’s first relationship with a man is her father so it can be useful to think about what that relationship taught you about relationships in general. If your father was not in your life, what was that like for you growing up, and what messages did you get about men?

Understandably this is very personal to you @FerrisWheelTrain but I don't think bracken said anything wrong.

You have to be realistic about fertility s as you age. We all know women in their 40s with kids. My mum had twins and a single naturally- but she had to have losses to get there. Equally IVF is very challenging too. Nothing wrong with being hopefully cautious. I'm still team "go for it" but things don't always pan out

I'm not entirely familiar with IVF (at all) but I've heard of embryo destruction as a term. And you admitted it was an emotional decision so why make a deal out of her saying "ethical dilemma"? For some it is an ethical dilemma

@gutful I can’t remember the exact words used by the hospital, but it was more like termination of storage - and I had the choice to donate to research. They were very sensitive about it, unlike your post.

@bushhbb I agree, with your post - mostly. I have never heard the term ‘destroy’ - whether it’s used as a term in an IVF clinic, or an abortion clinic. It’s highly insensitive.

But I don’t want to turn this thread into my situation, it’s about OP.

Jesus wept, another woman supporting a cocklodger who had to move in due to Covid.

I agree 100% with gutful. Excellent post.

At your age with endo you do need to accept it might be too late to become a biological mother.

What's done and done and your pattern of centring men in your life has proven harmful to you in many ways.

So stop right there. Dump the cocklodger. 'in talks' about a job. C'mon.

@FerrisWheelTrain it wasn't my post that brought up Embryo destruction

I was just asking you what you felt was a less inflammatory term

OP you've got to sort your life out. Why are you living with someone you barely know? who isn't working? Why did you stay with men who didn't want children if you did want children? Figure out what you want. Be content on your own. If you really, really, really want a child, and have considered how unbelievably life-changing it is, the unbelievably hard work involved, and still want one, you probably need to go about it as a single mother. Time is really not on your side - of course people will tell you they or someone they knew had a child in their forties (I myself did), however it is not as easy as being in your 30s, higher risks of abnormalities for the baby etc. You may want to consider egg donation. First though, OP, figure out what you want and learn to be happy on your own, raise your bar for men, otherwise you'll keep ending up with unsuitable men.

Staying with someone who has told you they don't want children is a decision to not have children, by you. Giving up your agency and power in your life is a decision you make. And love whatnot is just as excuse - been there, done that, was so painful but I had to dump because I love me, too, and if you don't love yourself then probably no one else will, either, not in a healthy way.

So what LalaLand said is also spot on.

[quote FerrisWheelTrain]@brakken - in fact your post has angered me somewhat. I have 2 utterly beautiful children, both IVF - and the assertion that I ‘got lucky’ on something that is a money making industry is just totally wrong.[/quote]
@FerrisWheelTrain
Congratulations on the birth of your children but i have no idea why stating facts has angered you.

I invite you (and OP) to do some research into the IVF industry (I.e. not just reading marketing material on clinic websites). People are much more likely to be unsuccessful than successful - it's a basic fact and I'm very surprised you've gone through the whole IVF process twice and not been aware. The companies who provide IVF naturally exist to make profits from their customers - same as any other company.

On average, IVF fails 70% of the time. That's a LOT of emotional turmoil , broken hearted people, and lots of money spent in vain by the individual/NHS. The industry knows it has a ready market of people desperate to be parents who will spend a lot of money trying to make it happen. They take advantage of this and it's part of the reason IVF costs are so extortionate.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-46081726

[quote FerrisWheelTrain]@brakken - would you also saying that conception should never happen in case there is a miscarriage? Are you saying that that because my tubes were damaged because of hidden infection given to me by a long term ex, I should not have had the right to conceive?[/quote]
@FerrisWheelTrain
I've never heard someone say they have a "right" to conceive. Genuinely, how is that even possible??

No one has the "right" to conceive, because it's never a given that anyone's body can conceive a baby .

I certainly don't have any "right" to conceive. I may have an incredibly strong desire for children but that's very different from having some sort of inalienable "right" for my body to conceive. Children aren't products. No one has automatic responsibility to procure children for someone else in order to fulfil that person's "rights".

@Brakken I didn’t want to comment on here further, but you are really getting my heckles up! Donor Egg is approx 55% success rate. Believe me I did a huge amount of research. I’m sure their are unscrupulous clinics out there, but my NHS doctor gave me great advice over who to use. The word ‘destroy/destruction’ is an awful word to use.

[quote FerrisWheelTrain]@Brakken I didn’t want to comment on here further, but you are really getting my heckles up! Donor Egg is approx 55% success rate. Believe me I did a huge amount of research. I’m sure their are unscrupulous clinics out there, but my NHS doctor gave me great advice over who to use. The word ‘destroy/destruction’ is an awful word to use.[/quote]
True. My fertility consultant said a donor embryo that’s been genetically screened can have a success rate of up to 70% regardless of the age of the mother who has implanted it. The use of donor eggs and donor embryos is so successful it’s changing the face of IVF.

The clinic told me I had a 5% chance with my first non-donor child, they didn’t hide anything to take my money. If anything they advised against it - but let it be my choice.

@Brakken and sorry - having my tubes destroyed by my lovely ex who failed to tell me about his STD, I felt like my right was taken away. And IVF gave me back that right.

And I’ve used the term ‘destroyed’ there correctly I feel...

OP ignore the sniping and read @gutful post then re-read it a few times.

Then ask your "boyfriend" to leave by Saturday. He is an adult and if he was any sort of decent human being he would have sorted out living with someone else before moving in with you due to the length of time of your relationship.

@gutful post is excellent and so, so true.

I see it time and time again amongst friends. Those who have a clear idea of what they want and will accept and who are happy to walk away if they don’t get it are the ones who end up with the house, husband, and baby (if that’s what they want). The easygoing ones afraid to be alone who go along with whatever to keep a guy cos they’re terrified they might not end up married or with a family get strung along forever and then dumped because he doesn’t value them.

Of course that’s down to the guy, and that behaviour is shit. But you made your decision not to try for kids when you decided to stay with the men who weren’t going to give you a stable and secure family life. They didn’t take that from you, it was given.

A friend asked if I wasn’t nervous about scaring a guy off when I was dating and mentioned on the first couple of dates that I was ready to get married and have a baby. Obviously I wasn’t, if a guy was scared off by that then he’d have done me a favour as those weren’t the guys I wanted. I wanted someone who had the same goals as me.

Better to be single and at least have the possibility of meeting someone and having children (if you want them) than be tied to someone exclusively when it’s going nowhere. You gotta value yourself and the very valuable gift that is your commitment and fidelity or nobody else will.

Too right, Rose. Same here. I walked away from a long-term relationship, and there was a lot of love there, but I wasn't willing to forgo the chance to have kids for a relationship and also made sure I did this with plenty of time left.

All the anecdotes, stories about IVF and egg donation are a moot point if you continue to hand over agency in your life to wasters (also the OP has endometriosis which may complicate things even further).

[quote RoseLimeade]@gutful post is excellent and so, so true.

I see it time and time again amongst friends. Those who have a clear idea of what they want and will accept and who are happy to walk away if they don’t get it are the ones who end up with the house, husband, and baby (if that’s what they want). The easygoing ones afraid to be alone who go along with whatever to keep a guy cos they’re terrified they might not end up married or with a family get strung along forever and then dumped because he doesn’t value them.

Of course that’s down to the guy, and that behaviour is shit. But you made your decision not to try for kids when you decided to stay with the men who weren’t going to give you a stable and secure family life. They didn’t take that from you, it was given.

A friend asked if I wasn’t nervous about scaring a guy off when I was dating and mentioned on the first couple of dates that I was ready to get married and have a baby. Obviously I wasn’t, if a guy was scared off by that then he’d have done me a favour as those weren’t the guys I wanted. I wanted someone who had the same goals as me.

Better to be single and at least have the possibility of meeting someone and having children (if you want them) than be tied to someone exclusively when it’s going nowhere. You gotta value yourself and the very valuable gift that is your commitment and fidelity or nobody else will.[/quote]
Yes. So true. You have to believe in yourself and your desires for others to value them / you.

@FerrisWheelTrain and @GrumpyHoonMain please forward me evidence based references that say donor eggs have a ~50-70% success rate of women giving birth to a live baby?

You're spreading very misleading information by trying to counter the established fact that IVF is much more likely to be unsuccessful than successful. This is vital information and you're not helping the OP or anyone by peddling misinformation. The figures you're quoting are for a successful pregnancies NOT live babies. No one embarks on IVF just to get pregnant, they do it to have a live baby. A significant proportion of pregnancies end in miscarriage, and this is even more the case for women over 40 (like the OP) and those with certain fertility problems.

Obviously many clinics will highlight the pregnancy bit, not the live baby bit that actually matters. Yet again why I say people need to research,look at actual evidence, and ask the right questions, not just regurgitate marketing material from fertility clinics, who already have a vested interest in your/taxpayer money.

Destruction of human embryos is another fact of IVF. Calling the process a different name doesn't change what happens to the embryo.

We all started life as human embryos so of course there's a serious ethical issue. Donating a human embryo to scientific experimentation and research is also an ethical issue.

@Brakken

Destruction of human embryos is another fact of IVF. Calling the process a different name doesn't change what happens to the embryo.

We all started life as human embryos so of course there's a serious ethical issue. Donating a human embryo to scientific experimentation and research is also an ethical issue.

There is a Spanish scheme from which you can “adopt” embryos that would otherwise be discarded. (It’s not the only such scheme.) So some IVF actually addresses that issue, if that’s a concern for the intending parent.