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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Was it rape?

66 replies

notsurewhathappened · 08/03/2021 15:00

NC for this because (for reasons which will become clear as you read). I’m not sure why I’m posting this now several years down the line. I just wanted people‘s thoughts on it really as it’s recently come back into my mind.

A few years ago, before I met my current partner, I briefly dated this guy I met online. After our second date, I agreed to go back to his house. We watched TV for a bit, had a drink (I was fully sober as I was driving home afterwards so only had one). He was getting very touchy feely downstairs and after a while suggested we go upstairs. I wasn’t massively opposed to it, nor was I massively in the mood for it (I wasn’t that into him) - I sort of just went along with it really (not sure why).

Anyway, just before we were about to have sex (both of us clothes off at this point and in the bed), I said to him “have you got a condom?” to which he replied “no, I don’t use that rubbish”. Then, without waiting for me to say anything more, he was on top of me and penetrated me. I let it go on but I was feeling very uncomfortable (I was on the pill but I wanted to use condoms too as I didn’t know him at all). I wanted to say “stop” but the word just didn’t come out for some reason.

Shortly afterwards, I’d say no more than 5 minutes, there was knock at his door (takeaway that we had ordered had arrived). He seemed a bit annoyed at the interruption but got up, pulled his trousers on and said “don’t you go anywhere” with a smile, then went downstairs for the food. I saw this as my opportunity (I didn’t feel respected by him and just wanted out of there). I grabbed my clothes and put them on as fast as I could and went downstairs where he was plating up the food. I said “I’ll just eat this and then I’ll have to get back”. I used my babysitter needing to go home as an excuse (my daughter was fine and safely with a family member overnight so it was lie but I wanted to get out).

He seemed disappointed but I ate quickly then left. I vowed on the drive home never to see him again. Then I forgot all about it, blocked his number etc, and moved on. Fast forward a few months a met current partner, who I’ve been with ever since (4 years).

I recently told my partner about this experience (I’m not sure why but we were discussing previous “bad dates” and it came up). He looked horrified and said “so this man raped you”. I said no, definitely not, I consented, I went upstairs with him, after he said he didn’t like using condoms I didn’t say anything further to him (but he didn’t really give me a chance to be fair), I didn’t tell him firmly to stop, and also I didn’t have any condoms with me myself. So how has he raped me? Surely I could have done more to stop him? Or I could have taken more responsibility myself?

My partner says I’m wrong and insists he did rape me, because I clearly asked him to use a condom and he refused and was inside me before I could object further.

Who is right? Was I raped? It was so long ago that I obviously don’t plan on doing anything about it now. But I just want to be clear in my mind about whether or not I was raped.

Any thoughts welcome to help me make sense of it all. Thanks.

OP posts:
mrlevelheaded · 08/03/2021 15:03

if you didnt want to be penetrated without him using a condom, then yes, its rape

HollowTalk · 08/03/2021 15:05

I think it was rape, yes, sorry. You didn't have any choice, did you?

TheQueef · 08/03/2021 15:07

Sorry, you were raped.
Flowers

Rosieposy89 · 08/03/2021 15:14

Sounds like rape sorry as he didn't check you were okay with not using a condom. X

Ivyr0se · 08/03/2021 15:15

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ComtesseDeSpair · 08/03/2021 15:18

Could you reasonably say that he knew or could realise you didn’t want to have sex? If yes, then it was rape.

TheQueef · 08/03/2021 15:18

Shaddap Ivy she didn't get the chance Hmm

notsurewhathappened · 08/03/2021 15:19

@Ivyr0se

It sounds like a horrible experience but not rape. If you asked him to use a condom and he said no and penetrated you, then that would be rape.

Asking has he a condom and not saying anything else when he says he doesn't use them isn't the same.

Still it's a shitty thing to happen and shows he had no respect for you.

The most important thing is how you are now. Even though in my opinion it's not rape, that doesn't mean it might not feel like it for you. It sounds like you have dealt with it as a traumatic sexual experience and it is only your new partner who is calling it rape.

Try and talk to a professional to help you work through your feelings towards it and try not to take what strangers in the internet say as gospel.

This was my thinking on it too, that I should have said something else. Even though he had penetrated me straight after saying "I don't use them", I could have still said "well stop then". I suppose that's what I should have done, really, instead of letting it go on when I wasn't completely comfortable.

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 08/03/2021 15:20

The Sexual Offences Act 2003 for England and Wales says that a person consents to something if that person 'agrees by choice and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice'. ... An offence will have taken place if the victim did not consent, or the accused had no reasonable belief that they consented.

It doesn’t matter that you went upstairs. It doesn’t matter that you were willing to have ses with him with a condom. You did not give your consent.

MazDazzle · 08/03/2021 15:21

sex

TheQueef · 08/03/2021 15:22

It isn't your fault lass.
He took away your choice.

notsurewhathappened · 08/03/2021 15:22

My partner said (if he was the sort of man who didn't like or use condoms), he would have replied with "no I don't have any, but if it'd make you feel more comfortable to use them I'll go and get some?" He says that's what a decent man would have done. Not just "no I don't use them" and straight inside me. I see his point.

OP posts:
littlemisschoclover · 08/03/2021 15:27

This is obviously not a very nice experience but I personally wouldn't class this as rape. If you had said no when he said he didn't have a condom them obviously it would have been.
I know I will get slated for saying this but to look at it from the other persons point of view, you willing went upstairs to have sex and didn't tell him that you didn't want to have sex so he would have had to make a guess at what you were thinking?
He does sound like a dick but I think that these types of lines are getting so blurry now that I can see many seemingly innocent people getting accused of something that they didn't do.

yearinyearout · 08/03/2021 15:30

if you didnt want to be penetrated without him using a condom, then yes, its rape

Well, you have to say so though? It's not enough just to think it.

DramaAlpaca · 08/03/2021 15:32

He didn't have your full consent. You froze, which happens and is not your fault. It was rape.

I'm sorry that happened to you Flowers

yearinyearout · 08/03/2021 15:33

Your partner is right in the sense that a decent man would've done that, but since you didn't respond I think you do have to file it under shitty experience with a disrespectful man, rather than rape.

sonnysunshine · 08/03/2021 15:35

Yes it was rape.
If you were in the middle of having sex and you said stop that too is rape.

2020iscancelled · 08/03/2021 15:36

If you in anyway displayed that you didn’t want to do it then it is rape, because he would have willingly ignored clear signs (verbal or otherwise) that you didn’t openly consent.

I think your partner sounds incredibly supportive and caring but don’t let him dictate what this was.

If you feel like it was just an uncomfortable horrible experience that you don’t want to now pick over them tell him that and ask him to respect that decision.

I’m not saying that’s what you should do but even if legally it could be classed as rape, it doesn’t mean you need to unpick it all.

I have a few situations like yours in my past where I could probably unpick them and pull out all sorts of shit but firstly I don’t need to and don’t want to. I have zero issues around my sexual past and don’t need anyone to tell me what was wrong or right.

So if you’re ok with it then draw a line. If you feel like you need some support to unravel this then reach out, there are so many good charities Flowers

JM10 · 08/03/2021 15:39

I think I probably wouldn't feel it was if it had happened to me. I think he obviously didn't respect you and shouldn't have done it though.

It sounds like your boyfriend now is a decent man who.respects women though.

Newfor2021 · 08/03/2021 15:40

This is interesting in that I believe you may get a very mixed response OP - which really doesn’t help you after such a horrific experience, sorry you went through this and I’m happy you now have what sounds like a level headed and decent guy.

Legally..... I’m not sure this is rape.... but that’s legally in a court of law blah blah that only ever convicts something like less that 5% of all rape cases!
Whatever it’s official definition is, he was a pig, and it clearly upset you.
It doesn’t really matter whether it was or wasn’t rape. What matters is how you process it and move on. Flowers

Champagneandmonstermunch · 08/03/2021 15:47

For it to be rape, you had to not consent to sex, and he had to be lacking reasonable belief of your consent. It is not easy to say either way whether he was reasonable to believe you consented or not without having been there. You were there, and if you don't feel like you were raped, I would trust your own judgement. No one else knows better than you if you consented, and whether he was reasonable to believe you did.

notsurewhathappened · 08/03/2021 15:57

Thanks everyone.
The responses do seem really quite mixed. I'm not sure why I need to label it as rape or otherwise, as someone said, that's not helpful. I suppose I was just quite shocked to have someone say to me "you were raped". It's hard to hear, because I don't want to believe that I was.

OP posts:
CallMeCleo · 08/03/2021 16:02

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BashfulClam · 08/03/2021 16:23

I think it would be rosebud you had told him to stop or withdrew consent. That’s the legality, emotionally he knew you weren’t happy but trampled on your feelings. Rather than say ‘I don’t have any would you be ok without using 1?’is certainly what he SHOULD have done. I stopped a boyfriend in a similar situation as I did not have unprotected sex before I got married. A condom was always a required from an sti point of view and even though I was on the pill i wanted an extra reassurance against an unplanned pregnancy. There were a few guys who didn’t like that rule but usually agreed if the point was pressed and they were told nothing was happening unless they used one. Maybe speak to rape crisis if you want to untangle it in your mind a bit.

My DH has always checked I am 100%in agreement before and during sex which was a hit of a revelation as most guys once they are inside don’t really check if you are ok.

Ruminating2020 · 08/03/2021 16:26

He did not give you the chance to say anything, so you went along with it even though you didn't want to. That's not true consent.

The response you describe is "fawning" where the "safest" thing you do at that moment to prevent further violence is to comply.

Fawning is the fourth response to trauma after fight, flight, and freeze but is not often talked about. It will be no surprise then that those who respond by fawning are the least likely to report their assault. Have a look here .

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