Was it rape?

[notsurewhathappened]

NC for this because (for reasons which will become clear as you read). I’m not sure why I’m posting this now several years down the line. I just wanted people‘s thoughts on it really as it’s recently come back into my mind.

A few years ago, before I met my current partner, I briefly dated this guy I met online. After our second date, I agreed to go back to his house. We watched TV for a bit, had a drink (I was fully sober as I was driving home afterwards so only had one). He was getting very touchy feely downstairs and after a while suggested we go upstairs. I wasn’t massively opposed to it, nor was I massively in the mood for it (I wasn’t that into him) - I sort of just went along with it really (not sure why).

Anyway, just before we were about to have sex (both of us clothes off at this point and in the bed), I said to him “have you got a condom?” to which he replied “no, I don’t use that rubbish”. Then, without waiting for me to say anything more, he was on top of me and penetrated me. I let it go on but I was feeling very uncomfortable (I was on the pill but I wanted to use condoms too as I didn’t know him at all). I wanted to say “stop” but the word just didn’t come out for some reason.

Shortly afterwards, I’d say no more than 5 minutes, there was knock at his door (takeaway that we had ordered had arrived). He seemed a bit annoyed at the interruption but got up, pulled his trousers on and said “don’t you go anywhere” with a smile, then went downstairs for the food. I saw this as my opportunity (I didn’t feel respected by him and just wanted out of there). I grabbed my clothes and put them on as fast as I could and went downstairs where he was plating up the food. I said “I’ll just eat this and then I’ll have to get back”. I used my babysitter needing to go home as an excuse (my daughter was fine and safely with a family member overnight so it was lie but I wanted to get out).

He seemed disappointed but I ate quickly then left. I vowed on the drive home never to see him again. Then I forgot all about it, blocked his number etc, and moved on. Fast forward a few months a met current partner, who I’ve been with ever since (4 years).

I recently told my partner about this experience (I’m not sure why but we were discussing previous “bad dates” and it came up). He looked horrified and said “so this man raped you”. I said no, definitely not, I consented, I went upstairs with him, after he said he didn’t like using condoms I didn’t say anything further to him (but he didn’t really give me a chance to be fair), I didn’t tell him firmly to stop, and also I didn’t have any condoms with me myself. So how has he raped me? Surely I could have done more to stop him? Or I could have taken more responsibility myself?

My partner says I’m wrong and insists he did rape me, because I clearly asked him to use a condom and he refused and was inside me before I could object further.

Who is right? Was I raped? It was so long ago that I obviously don’t plan on doing anything about it now. But I just want to be clear in my mind about whether or not I was raped.

Any thoughts welcome to help me make sense of it all. Thanks.

@notsurewhathappened

My partner said (if he was the sort of man who didn't like or use condoms), he would have replied with "no I don't have any, but if it'd make you feel more comfortable to use them I'll go and get some?" He says that's what a decent man would have done. Not just "no I don't use them" and straight inside me. I see his point.

Yes - it's interesting that what you thought or felt wasn't even a factor. He very casually steam-rolled over you.

Your current partner probably just really cares about you and think you haven't processed it properly, but if I knew him personally I would take him aside and tell him that one needs to be careful when framing another person's experience as 'rape'. Not everyone finds that helpful and he could create damage without intending. What's more important is that you realise it was wrong, that man is no longer in your life, and have now gone for a partner who is not like that.

I wouldn’t class this as rape.

@Happycat1212

I wouldn’t class this as rape.

But it doesn’t matter what you think. That’s the law and this is rape. For sex to be consensual it has to be :- Freely given Reversible Informed Enthusiastic Specific

That’s the law and so I will say it again it doesn’t matter what you think.

She literally asked for opinions. As a woman pretty much loads of us have gone alone with sex that we didn’t really want. I don’t class any of it as rape. I’ve had sex that I didn’t want to. I don’t feel like I was raped. She asked for opinions 😕

This*

@notsurewhathappened

The fawning response resonates with me and it's helped me make sense of why I just went along with it, despite inside thinking please get off me. It was because he was already on top of me before I could say anything else so I felt powerless, and also I didn't know him well enough to know what "stop, get off me" would have resulted in. Would he have continued anyway? I'll never know. But I need to put it to rest in my mind somehow.

I've been in a similar situation before with an ex. I wanted him to wait until I was more turned on before penetration but he didn't wait and I let him carry on. I think part of the reason I let it continue was the same as you - if I had protested more and he hadn't stopped, then it would have felt different - it would have felt like rape in the moment. At least by letting him carry on, I was pretending I had some control over the situation.

For me, looking back, I do now class the act as rape but I would feel uncomfortable telling somebody that I was raped. I'd be uncomfortable with someone telling me how I should define it or how I should feel about it.

No idea what the comment about not wanting opinions is about. I posted exactly for that - and I've thanked people for their opinions.

I'm particularly grateful to the person who drew my attention to the fawning response. It helps me to frame this experience a little better.

@NoMackerelInSwindon

I wouldn’t have stayed for the food.

I don't know why I did that. I felt sort of obliged - god knows why.

I don't know why I did that. I felt sort of obliged - god knows why.

@notsurewhathappened would you class yourself as a people pleaser? Your decision to stay for the food as well as your response suggests to me you are very much one. Do you think you have better boundaries now?

Please don't be so hard on yourself. Perhaps you can get some counselling on this if it continues to bother you and you want to explore and be at peace with it.

You're welcome. It was me that linked the article on the four responses to sexual assault.

There are lots of reasons you might have stayed for food: shock, denial and a need to "normalise" the situation, fear (dont want him to turn nasty ). All of them understandable. None of them your fault.

@Ruminating2020

Yes I do think I can be a people pleaser at times. I think it was also a worry that I've already probably pissed him off by getting dressed and coming downstairs (when he told me "don't go anywhere"), so I was clearly putting an end to the sex by going downstairs fully dressed. That along with his approach where I hadn't felt able to say stop, I suppose I thought I better not push it, I don't want to piss him off more etc. So felt obliged to stay at least for food. I don't know. I do think my boundaries are better now, I wouldn't go to someone's house like that on a 2nd date now and I especially not if I wasn't really that into them. Luckily I have a much lovelier man now.

Staying for food was an attempt to normalise what had just happened.

You can’t have just been raped if you’re eating a takeaway, right? Just a normal date night.

It’s a sort of autopilot.

To me it sounds like you didn't have an opportunity to say "no". I'm so sorry you experienced that. I get really anxious about unprotected sex too and have had horrible experiences with men not really respecting that.. Have you watched I May Destroy You? It's heavy going but it helped me to process a lot of things and specifically looks at the issue of condom use/rape and fawning. I think there's an instinct to befriend someone who could harm us to keep ourself safe.