Is it unreasonable to have a hard line/boundary on porn?

[Mebackagain]

I know many would say it is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect a partner to never look at porn whether videos or just images, anything that gets them horny etc.

But I do struggle with feeling hurt even knowing my partner might do it whether rarely or more often. Is this unreasonable? I know the answer is it probably is? I know I can be insecure and even a tiny bit jealous at times but at least I am aware of it and trying to handle it but it can be hard to do when you cannot communicate with your partner and are not sure really, how much porn they use for example.

Perhaps it is also that I struggle with not being able to communicate very well with him about it, or anything else important to me for that matter. Automatic defensive or angry reactions, shutting down conversations sometimes, make me wonder if I can trust what he says when he says he doesn't use it often. But I do know he used it quite often when single. Very rarely we might actually be able to discuss or resolve any issues. That always feels great when it happens but so often it seems to be difficult to have open communication.

I don't know. Is it just my issue? Do I have to come to terms with the fact that yes everybody may look at porn once in a while, get comfortable with that fact. And then address the other issue of whether or not he may be using it more often than that and not able to tell me/lying to me, or whether I just have trust and insecurity issues that I need to get over, he is telling the truth and annoyed that I might not believe him.

I know porn is a complex and difficult issue and don't mean to cause any arguments on here or place any judgement. I know also its use can be associated with secrecy but also shame and guilt and so I should have some compassion as it can be hard for some people to talk about even to their partner and I know I also can react angrily/hurt at times in those kinds of conversations.

Sorry if this post doesn't make sense I suppose it is a bit of an inner ramble! And I am also trying not to give too much detail but I understand some detail is necessary to be able to advise here. Not sure what I am asking really!

I don't want to come across as controlling in any way of course. It's a fine line to navigate this one. And of course I know that really, communication is key.

In many ways him and I do communicate better than any of the other men I have had relationships with, yet clearly there are still some huge barriers. Perhaps it is just me and I am hard to communicate with...

You do get that boundaries aren't decided by committee? And also that no-one else has to agree to your boundary? It is then up to you to decide if you want to maintain your boundary (by ending the relationship) or modify your boundary as a compromise. However, modifying a boundary could suggest that either your boundary wasn't appropriate in the first place and was actually an attempt at control; or that you are being steamrollered by a controlling person.

I don't date men with dogs, or who want a dog. Nothing wrong with men who have dogs (nothing wrong with dogs even), but they don't suit me. Dogs being around me long-term makes me very unhappy and life is too short to be unhappy. I'm sure lots of people think I am very unreasonable - that doesn't matter.

So have your boundary where you want it. His reaction is up to him, and you can proceed from there. But you don't use boundaries to change another person's behaviour: you use them to show others what works and what doesn't for you - and to show yourself when to end things. Boundaries don't need endless conversations. They need simple statements and actions.

Think about where your boundary really is. Yours, not anyone else's. Think what would be a dealbreaker for you - that is where your boundary really is. Anything else is an attempt at control, or is coming from a place of fear of being without your partner/a relationship. But a boundary you won't enforce, by leaving forever if need be, isn't a boundary, it's a bluff.

No boundary is unreasonable.
It's more an issue of whether what you want us actually available and whether it matters in the way you think it does.
If he has a sex drive l, he's probably masturbating. Even if he stops masturbating to porn, he's unlikely to be thinking of you every time he does it.

I wouldn’t stay with him if my DH was looking at porn. That’s my boundary. I’m not concerned by anyone else’s.

Thanks, I don't know, porn is such a complex issue. I know everyone masturbates etc. And I don't want to appear controlling.

The reality I think is that my boundaries revolve more around communication and honesty. I have to know he is being honest about this stuff and I don't know I just feel he probably isn't from his reactions, or maybe he finds it hard to talk about as I know it can be hard to talk about. Or maybe he is just fed up with me bringing it up a few times, but the reason is because most times the conversation has just got argumentative or defensive and it has left me feeling like I just don't really know, or feeling bad that I brought it up, I'm the one being unreasonable by asking etc. But I do know what he looked at before he met me, accounts he followed etc...I wish I didn't! I don't know how regular but he did follow actual accounts...which to me is taking it to the next level rather than just random watch of random video/random looking at a random image once in a while.

I don't mind very rare use but any more than that...I guess I need to decide my boundary on it then.

No boundary is unreasonable to everybody. Some boundaries are common to most people, some boundaries are a bit more unusual.

The trick is finding someone who has similar boundaries to you, and the same boundaries as you with regard to things that are important to you. This is true of relationships/friends/family etc. Choose your people according to your boundaries, not according to you fitting into their boundaries.

So. You don't want to be with a man who's into porn? Don't be with one. Make it clear that it's a boundary for you. There's no special trick to communicating this. There's no big discussion needed. All you have to say is 'I will not be in/remain in a relationship with a person who engages with porn.' You're not telling anybody to do/not do anything. You're not being pushy or making someone fit your requirements. YOU state what YOU want. Your boundaries are about YOU.

You are never unreasonable to feel anything. Your responses to your feelings could be over reactions, but your feelings themselves are to be respected, and will be respected, if you choose people to be around you who care about your feelings. The first person who needs to respect and care about your feelings is YOU. So, if you feel something, fuck the 'I'm not sure if it's ok to feel this' train of thought. You want a different train. You want the train that calmly says 'This is what I feel, so this is who I am. Respect me, or be without me.'

I object to porn on ethical grounds so would not knowingly choose a man who does not share these values. Of course, the men I have been with might have a) lied about sharing my values to keep the peace, or b) been tempted to view porn despite disapproving of it.

If I discovered my boyfriend used porn, I wouldn’t immediately break up with him, but there would be a conversation to be had, partly around why he had lied to me in the first place and pretended to be anti-porn. If he intended to continue using it, I think it might be a deal-breaker, yes.

OP, you are absolutely entitled to your own boundaries for your own reasons. But also probably have to make your peace with the fact that you’ll never know for sure he is telling you the truth, unless you start to stalk all his devices (and I wouldn’t go down that route). I think you just have to trust him.

I wouldn’t be with someone who set this boundary, because it feels very close to trying to control their mind and their thoughts as a means of satisfying their jealousy. You have to accept that your partner will find other people attractive at various points, or even have the occasional innapropriate thought, the important thing is that they chose to be with YOU.

I think being anti-porn is very valid, however in this case it sounds more like insecurity/jealousy rather than a specific issue with porn. You can’t expect someone to sign up to never finding any other woman attractive—if they do, you know they’re lying to you!

Women have different opinions on the use of porn. All valid. Of course even in relationships we find other people attractive and that is normal and natural. Porn has become so normalised and can be damaging to relationships. It’s hard to feel attracted to a man who constantly wanks off to women young enough to be his daughter. Something quite sad and desperate about it.
And of course that would effect the partner’s self esteem.
I’m sure many men would feel put out if their partner’s were constantly masturbating to men with huge dicks on screen and incredible bodies.

I think there’s a difference between setting a boundary and being controlling. Like for example some women don’t want their partners to follow any women that aren’t close friends or family on social media. But they follow pretty celebs and influencers themselves!! I’m sure in this case they would frame it as a ‘boundary’ but how convenient, that’s just another way of wording control. And in my experience the more control and ‘rules’ you have over someone , the more likely they are to be broken.

The simple fact is: if it’s not impacting your sex life with your partner it makes no difference. If, however, his porn-watching impacts the the quality or frequency of you sex life, then it’s an issue.

Otherwise it’s just your insecurity to bare. There are beautiful/sexy women everywhere!! Your DP could even fantasise about other women when he’s DTD with you and you wouldn’t even know it. You’ll step into dangerous territory (and quite frankly drive yourself mad with paranoia) if you try and police how he looks at women. If you have a discussion with him and he’s open and honest with you about it if he uses it and how often, then I would see his transparency as a positive thing. If he’s hiding it because he’s worried you’ll get jealous then that’s whats unhealthy.

Well it’s not unreasonable To have boundaries, we all have them, in every aspect of life - not just relationships. So you have to know what your boundaries are in relation to your partner looking at sexually explicit material and then you must communicate it.

The unreasonable kicks in when you don’t communicate. Then you get upset when partner is crossing your boundaries and he gets defensive because he doesn’t feel like he’s doing anything wrong.

It is essential to say “this is where I’m at with porn....etc etc”

You’ve said you keep bringing it up, that is quite unfair to your partner if you haven’t been clear about things and then you bring it up regularly and it somehow turns into passive aggressive criticism of him. I wouldn’t like that if my DP did that to me - say your piece, stick to it and no need to talk about it again.

If your boundaries are different to your partners you might find you are not compatible long term. Whilst you might be able to turn a blind eye when something makes a little uncomfortable, you won’t be able to do that if your opinions on what is acceptable and what isn’t aren’t naturally aligned.

Porn is repugnant yes but we can’t dictate what another person looks at (assuming legal)

I think there’s a difference between setting a boundary and being controlling

Yes. Your boundaries about you. Controlling behaviour is about the other person. 'I will not stay with a partner who uses porn' is very different from 'I will not allow my partner to look at porn.'

Having gone back and read your comments OP i think the porn is a bit of a red herring.

Most women I know (and read about on here) object to porn because of the moral aspects (won’t go into but I agree re rape / trafficking / desensitisation and normalisation of violence etc etc)

But you’re objecting to it because you are insecure. It’s totally valid to feel insecure but it’s not ok to control someone else’s actions because of your insecurity.

So if you can’t work on these issues then you shouldn’t be in a relationship with someone who enjoys looking at other women occasionally. You’ve said you don’t mind “rare” usage but what does that even mean.
Once a week? Twice a month? Just on birthdays and xmas?

I think you need to take porn out of the picture for a moment and ask yourself if he stopped watching it would you feel secure or would you move your insecurity onto another area of his life - female friends / social media etc

YANBU! I'm pro porn (been in a few!) but your boundaries are YOUR boundaries.

I agree with @Eckhart here too.

The simple fact is: if it’s not impacting your sex life with your partner it makes no difference. If, however, his porn-watching impacts the the quality or frequency of you sex life, then it’s an issue

Otherwise it’s just your insecurity to bare

This is wrong. If OP doesn't like it and it's not affecting their sex life, her preference is just as valid as if it was. Nobody has to bear anything in their partner if they don't want to. Fantasising about other women, looking at other women, talking about other women and using porn are all different things, and everybody has the right to like or not like any of them in their partner.

You say it's dangerous territory to step into, to police how he looks at women. I'd say it's dangerous territory to try to police your own feelings about something you don't like, so that your partner can carry on doing it.

Hmm well what PP have said really. Your boundaries need to be compatible with your partner's if the relationship has any chance long term.

Personally, I view watching porn as cheating (at the lower end of the cheating scale of badness, but nonetheless on it). If DH got sexual pleasure looking at a woman who was not me, that would be cheating, regardless of whether she is on TV or not. He obviously can't help walking past someone on the street and thinking 'she's hot', but it's the acting on it that's wrong, ie choosing to go and watch porn. This is just my view though. I know some people who have decided not to masturbate alone either, that they both want to get all their sexual pleasure from each other. They agree on that and that suits them. Some couples watch porn together. Leaving aside the ethical issues of porn, that's fine too, for them.

You have to agree, OP, and then stick to your agreement. Your post seems to suggest you have trouble communicating together, so perhaps you need to work on this first. Communication is everything.

Thanks for all the helpful comments I do appreciate them all.

I am certainly insecure yes. But I didn't make it clear that I do also disagree with porn on the grounds of objectification, exploitation, trafficking and other issues. In fact that is certainly a big deal to me.

But equally I have nothing against those women who do genuinely choose to go into that kind of work and if it makes them happy, fine. Porn is complex, some people choose to be in it and some are trafficked in.

So anyway, it's not really only an insecurity issue. I don't mean to be controlling at all.

The fact is although as I said in many ways the communication in this relationship has been better than others, we do still have issues and both of us can be terrible at communicating at times. I clearly wasn't able to communicate my own boundaries very well early on, indeed I wasn't even sure of them back then maybe which absolutely doesn't help.

The porn is perhaps more of a red herring for me because actually to me the other issue is communication. I have often felt that any argument was twisted onto me, anything I have tried to communicate that I am upset about has been shut down, many things not resolved. Very rare occasions of actual resolutions and healthy talks which is better than previous relationships, but still with the issues I have just mentioned being the more regular occurrence.

And he also simply keeps things to himself and doesn't communicate at all, I never know if he is upset or has issues with anything. So we are both probably unsatisfied in our communication but we both do have issues with it.

As I said before the only reason I bought it up a few times was because I felt it hadn't been discussed frankly or resolved it had turned into arguments or defensiveness. But also yes perhaps I wasn't clear enough on my boundaries and that may not be fair.

I am genuinely trying to have a healthy relationship but it is hard obviously if the other person would rather avoid chatting about anything important, or just shuts it down.

I don't know how to proceed. We had an argument about it recently and are now cooling off. Am I supposed to do what usually happens, just get over it and we move on and don't resolve it. Or should I just tell him clearly my position on things. He might react angrily and think I am banging on again.

I am trying to have something healthy and definitely not trying to be controlling or trying to bang on.

I have often felt that any argument was twisted onto me, anything I have tried to communicate that I am upset about has been shut down, many things not resolved. Very rare occasions of actual resolutions and healthy talks which is better than previous relationships, but still with the issues I have just mentioned being the more regular occurrence

And he also simply keeps things to himself and doesn't communicate at all, I never know if he is upset or has issues with anything

Both people have to have healthy communication patterns, OP. It's not about you trying as hard as you can despite him to have a healthy relationship. If his communication patterns are as you've detailed above, neither you nor anybody else will be able to have a healthy relationship with him, and there's nothing you can do about it.

I don't know if it is impacting our sex life. Certainly it is less frequent than it was at the start but that is usually fairly normal. He gets tired from work and so do I and we have both been stressed recently.

Our sex life was very frequent and great at the start but yes it has dwindled somewhat, although of course it should be quality over quantity and sometimes the quality is good where the frequency lacks and vice versa...I don't know

But we have only been together just over two years and that's why I do also sometimes have the nagging feeling that perhaps he just isn't interested anymore, or is just going back to what he did when he was single, I think the problem also is knowing the accounts he followed when he was single but of course that was totally up to him but I don't expect most women would want their partner to carry on doing that when in a relationship (of course he has said he has stopped)

Yes I know @Eckhart and I've struggled with this throughout but like I say, sometimes we do manage to have peaceful and healthy conversations about things which is way more than what happened in my other relationships which I know realise where perhaps immature in many ways (due to our ages etc). So it makes it hard when I know that we are indeed actually able to communicate sometimes.

Equally I do realise that I am not always a perfect communicator or easy to talk to 100% of the time! And also I think a lot of the time he doesn't tell me stuff, like something has upset him or he is feeling low or ill or whatever, as he doesn't want me to worry, trying to put me first but it isn't healthy. Or it might be because he is concerned about how I might react - like I said I'm not perfect and I do sometimes react to some things

When you say you've tried to discuss the communication problem a few times, how exactly have you done it? What do you say?

In my relationship, if I'd tried to discuss something casually and not got anywhere with it, I would go for serious chat. I would find a time when we were alone and not rushed, and start by saying something like, 'I'd really like to talk about X. This is a huge issue for me and it absolutely has to be sorted out if our relationship is going to continue. How do you feel about it / how can we make it better? Or if you don't know, would you like me to say how I feel first?'

Depending on his response I would know whether the relationship had a future or not. I wouldn't expect the issue to be fully sorted in one conversation, but if, when effectively told that this could end the relationship if not tackled, he still continued to refuse to engage, that would be that.

Have you considered counselling? If he's not communicating because he's worried about how you'll react, that really is a couple issue rather than anybody being to blame.

That thing about him shutting you down and turning things onto you sounds very unhealthy, though, and quite different. It's not surprised your sex life is suffering if that's how he deals with your emotions.

Hmm the conversations about this particular issue I suppose have been fairly casual. Does seem to escalate into arguments often, I know sometimes perhaps I do bang on or react badly.

Basically the other night I raised it again at a bad time, I admit now in hindsight. So the conversation was automatically focussed on me wanting to discuss something at a bad time rather than just answering and moving on. I eventually came out and straight up asked when he had last looked at porn stuff and he said a few weeks ago.

Then later in the evening he got annoyed I suppose I was still going on about it and he said FFS he hasn't been looking at porn. But of course earlier he had said he looked a few weeks ago...

Bah I know communication is an issue here and my timing was off but I did say sometimes it feels like there is just never a good time to talk about some things. Often in chats that end up in arguments he says things like "I just want to relax" makes me feel there is not often a good time or I shouldn't bring some things up

On the other hand as previously said we have occasionally had good healthy talks about some things. Perhaps when he is in a better mood. I know he has been tired lately and I have also been ill and I know it is not great that this whole porn issue still plays on my mind from time to time. Maybe it is just my issue of being insecure and unable to trust what he says.

Just don't know what to do now. We are cooling off, both tired as well. Do I just leave it and move on or try to communicate better my own position. Arggh! Confused!

Yes I did actually think seriously about relationship counselling for the first time last night actually. Not sure how he would react to that suggestion. I know he does want to be with me but don't think he recognises the issues in the relationship or how some things are unhealthy, or, he chooses to feel that most of it is me and me causing issues.

@Eckhart I agree you shouldn’t police your own feelings. But the fact of the matter is how do you decide who to be policed?

Because there’s two arguments: pro porn and against porn. If the her partner is pro porn why should he stops because his partner is against it? Why should the woman’s opinion trump his own?

In circumstances like these I simply think it comes down to incompatibility. OP should be able to be with someone who doesn’t like porn and her DP should be able to be with someone who allows him to watch porn.

@Mebackagain however OP, if he gets defensive every time you bring it up that’s an issue. I think you need to clearly say ‘I’m okay with you watching porn’ or ‘I’m not’. If you communicate poorly , you will also be met with poor communication. Tbh these things should have been spoken about early on in the relationship and not two years down the line because if he’s been doing it all this time, he’s unlikely to want to stop now.

There's nothing confusing here. You have a boundary, and you need to communicate with him about it. Approach him calmly, tell him you need to talk to him about using porn, and that you're upset, and ask him when would be a good time. That'll tell you whether your timing is bad or he just won't talk about it.

If he won't talk about it, he values porn over your feelings. So you'll know what to do then, I hope. And if he will talk, and tells you 'tomorrow evening', then good. Tell him your boundary, and ask him if he intends to respect it. If he says no, again, you'll know what to do.