Emotionally unavailable man? Advice please

[CJBear]

Met BF just over a year ago, pre-lockdown. Fell properly in love. Lockdown has accelerated things and been bubbled up at weekends since last summer. Almost all hallmarks there- progression, commitment etc. Haven’t had to push to define the relationship, happened naturally. Regularly tells/shows me he loves me. Lots of fun times. He is kind, loving and consistent in a very practical way i.e. would drop anything to help with a crisis. Says he wants a long-term commitment, and he seems happy with the relationship and the way it’s developing. For me, genuinely thought I’d found the one.

There isn’t anything wrong as such but there’s definitely a lack of true intimacy and avoidance of conflict. He tends to limit/ shut hard conversations down, hates big displays of emotion. Doesn’t talk much about his past or ask about mine. Often deflects hard issues with humour. We laugh a lot but sometimes I feel it’s at the expense of true intimacy. Doesn’t ask/disclose about past or present issues that have emotions attached. This does appear to be a pattern across his life rather than just within our relationship and I suspect lack of communication was the cause of his marriage break up. His only other relatively LTR broke down because she was too “demanding” (emotionally I think he meant) There’s been a few times that issues have bothered me to the extent I have brought stuff up. He does generally listen and make changes, but these conversations are very brief as he doesn’t take time to explore/fully understand and I end up clamming up and only saying half of what I really want to. It’s tangible how uncomfortable he gets which is teaching me it’s better not to say anything or at least choose my battles wisely. I feel shut down and also that he’s empathy-light. He has openly expressed views that any form of “drama” is frowned upon. I don’t want drama, but I do want someone emotionally available and quite honestly am starting to run out of conversation as I feel
so much has been zoned off. He sometimes presents things as a fait accompli i.e. “Valentine’s Day is “not allowed.” No discussion. I’ve tried to limit my need for reassurance, but I can’t help feeling that I wouldn’t be feeling like this if he was giving a bit more. Although it’s hard to revisit things if he has taken the steps to sort?

I’m also looking at making (many) more sacrifices than he is. We have discussed living together in a year or so but this would involve a relocation for me with all that would involve. He’s determined to hang onto his large family home which has an enormous mortgage and which he can’t really afford (he has to take in lodgers to help with finances which makes me feel I can never really relax at his.) This seems to stem from the belief that his girls still need their family home in some respect. Would make better financial sense to sell both houses and start afresh but he says he doesn’t want to do this for a few years. Still a lot of “stuff” around which is from his past life. House feels a little like his family have just popped out for the weekend. Not sure he actually notices this. But I do and I’m not sure there’s a lot of room for one more.

I can imagine growing old with him. I love him and he is a genuinely good man. I am happy probs 80-90% of time. But I do worry that my needs for true intimacy are not being met, that it all feels a bit surface level, that there’s too many instances of where I feel I need to speak up (with mixed results). I’m aware I’m dealing with a different kind of man here than any previous partner who was genuinely controlling and maybe this is normal for a bloke but I can’t help feeling that something is missing. I also realise that he’s probs not going to change (he’s mid 50s) I’m worried that increasing my “asks” for more intimacy in the wrong way will not end well but equally that my needs are my needs and I need more than this.

So….do I try to accept the situation and live with the limitations? I know I am naturally more anxious than he is. Or do I confront and risk the consequences? How do I even broach this given the way he is? If I did bail out I genuinely think he’d be devastated to lose me. This feels like a relationship worth something but I need to know how best to move forward.

He seems set in his ways and reluctant to move forward unless you pack up everything to relocate to his family home.
I don't like 'Valentine's Day is not allowed' what about your feelings? not many men do like it but a small gesture if means something to you is hardly going above and beyond.

Speak your mind, you are in this relationship with him so it's no good keeping emotions in that you feel you need to express.

I expect his ex felt just as frustrated but gets labelled as demanding as nothing moves forward.

Depends going forward if relocating is something you really want to do and the possibility that it's with him and the lodgers! Talk to him

If I did bail out I genuinely think he’d be devastated to lose me

Tell him how you feel, and what consequences you're considering, then. You hold all the cards you need, and yet you are minimising your feelings because he minimises your feelings.

Your needs are not being met, and they are deep intimacy needs. It will feel worse and emptier as the years go on; it's cumulative. Stay with him and keep shutting yourself up if you want a life devoid of the intimacy you crave.

He sounds like me. I can't bear deep, meaningful conversations. DH and I don't generally have them, unless we have to. I couldn't tell you much about DH's romantic past either. I'm just not that interested.

You need to stop hiding your own needs and opinions - you're not actually being honest with him and ultimately it's not fair on either of you. Because you can't keep it up forever, and if your emotional needs are not being met, it's not going to work in the long run.

You're doing all the compromising and I don't think moving into his house is a good or sensible move. If he's not ready to embrace a joint future, you shouldn't settle for being the substitute wife in the family ghosts home.

I don’t mean deep and meaningful all the time. I’m not that serious! I just mean talking not actively avoiding subjects because they’re deemed off limits or for fear of being accused of causing drama. I hate drama but I I do need to be with someone who can get below the surface when needed. These replies are helpful. Thanks. I do know I need to speak up. I have been trying to build up the courage but the words won’t come out! I guess I’m scared of the implications but I also realise that not telling him risks a lifetime of swallowing my feelings which would be even worse.

So much of your post resonates OP. My last relationship felt very similar to yours in many ways. It’s been interesting reading your take on it actually as I don’t think I was as clued up as you clearly are, and I couldn’t work out what the issues were, except that things felt difficult. Like you, I loved the man I was with but there were, in the end, too many emotional gaps. For me, anyway.
We broke up but have since become very close platonic friends which he seems to be able to relax with much more. Not saying that you’ll go the same way but just sharing the outcome of what happened - I wanted more than he could realistically give.

Thanks for your perspective. I’m not sure how clued up I am- more just sad that something with so much potential may just not be the best fit for me (or him). It may go that way. He’s not doing this deliberately- it’s the ways he’s built and a product of his history just as I am. I’m going to be have to be brave here I think. As category12 said- not fair on either of us. I genuinely don’t think he’ll have the first clue what I’m on about either- hence his labelling of feelings as drama. If we don’t have intimacy he’s just a friend with benefits- and I need more than that to create a life together.

I know what you mean op, I'm not all serious all the time but couldn't be with someone who wanted us to act like acquaintances- I don't even want friends who don't go beneath surface topics... it's boring to me!

With regards to relocating: so he's said that "at the moment" he needs to keep the family home. So can't you just tell him you will wait until you can buy a place together that will feel equally yours? Definitely don't relocate and feel that you are putting yourself at a disadvantage whilst his life just stays the same. I have a similar problem with my partner - neither of us wants to move to where the other lives. We are committed to being together though, and are talking about alternatives that we would both be happy with

It is really sad, @CJBear, and it's really hard to do, but you do sound incompatible in this way, and it's a vital way, not to him, but to you.

When you're with the right person, they 'get you'. You don't have deep and meaningful bits they think are 'drama'. I've been in your position, where expressing my feelings calmly was regarded as being dramatic. I would have gone nuts if we'd stayed together. In fact, I think I would probably, ironically, have become dramatic.

It is hard.

Thanks Eckhart. I appreciate the flowers and the empathy a great deal.
I haven’t totally given up hope. I won’t until I have the conversation that lets him know (without drama) how much I need a deeper emotional connection and see if we can find any way through this that looks at meeting both our sets of needs.
I love and respect him enough to be honest. I also think he’s wise enough to be honest back. So if we end I think we’ll do so with love and that’s at least something.

The fact that you are having to restrain yourself in bringing up important issues because he labels it as “drama” is a massive red flag for me. The phrase “treading on eggshells” comes to mind. Basically he wants things to be how he likes and is reluctant to engage in discussion about any other way. That’s not healthy and does not equate to an equal partnership. Why do you feel that you have to adapt to what he wants? That’s not right either. This is the foundation of what could potentially become an abusive controlling relationship or at least a very unhappy one for you.

It's unrealistic to expect him to suddenly become someone who is comfortable talking about his emotions. So I think there are two aspects to this. The first is how much you need to be with someone who is emotionally available, and the extent to which you feel you are not being true to yourself if you do end up avoiding "deep and meaningful" conversations. Only you can answer that one.

The other aspect is to recognise when he is actually being unreasonable, and learning to talk to him about it in a calm, non-dramatic way rather than avoid the subject. The house one is a good example. I agree with a pp that you should lay your cards on the table and say it doesn't work for you to move into his house but you're very happy to discuss possible compromises. Keep it practical, don't mention his emotional attachment to the house.

In other words, if this relationship continues I think you need to accept the situation to some extent but not completely. And you need to give some careful thought to where your boundaries lie.

I hear you op, and watch this thread with interest. Im in a very similar situation. Its hard when the chemistry is very high but the connection just doesn't quite meet in the middle.

Hi CJbear, like Wilf I can identify with your post. It actually could be my relationship you have described so insightfully. I have read your post several times. Well I am two years down the line and there are so many things now that I cannot discuss with my partner. You may or may not find it helpful We have detailed conversations for example, about the weather, the birds in the garden, but say if something that might need a deeper response comes up (maybe about previous relationships or sex for example) his answer is non comital says he 'doesn't know' or 'can't remember'. Some of the time I am just seeking why he might think a certain way etc just to reach a level of understanding. He once accused me of trying to analyse him. So I've found I have stopped asking about a lot of stuff that would lead to increased understanding and intimacy. He also doesn't ask me about personal things, like recently I've had a smear done and a mammogram. Routine appointments but he never asked if I was okay after or if I would like some company there etc. He has accused me of being 'needy' and over emotional. I don't believe I am either of those. I feel sad and a bit empty as I know this is not the deep connection that I initially hoped we would have. I love him and fancy him like mad which is why I am still with him. I hope you gain some clarity with where your relationship is going.

@Rainbowshine- I have thought of that angle. However, I think his motivation is a deep rooted inability to handle his own or others emotions rather than a need to control me. However, I do take the point if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck etc and I need to be careful that my own behaviour doesn’t give him an unspoken free pass to control me. If I don’t stand up for myself I agree this could be a possibility but I then would only have myself to blame!

I also agree with this angle @PaleFox. I think I need to separate the emotional issues with the practical ones. And I can do compromise!! I’m not expecting some dramatic change. But we need to meet in the middle here and if he can’t or won’t I guess that’s my answer.

And sending hugs to you @Sully129. It sounds lonely. That’s why stuff like this is so helpful.

Thanks all so much. I can’t tell you how helpful this has been in terms of exploring my thinking further. I am going to continue to think and plan and watch.... I am going to act but there is so much that is so precious to me here that to do so hastily doesn’t feel like the right thing. It’s also so fecking difficult to set the conditions for having these convos because of lockdown ...it’s not like we can go out for a nice relaxing drink 🍺 n a neutral venue 🙄

Couple of questions, CJ. You might not want to answer them, but they may lead down paths to further help with your thinking:

• What was your parents' relationship like with each other?
• What was your relationship like with your parents, growing up? Were your feelings heard and respected then?

Do you think he could be autistic? He is unable to be empathic, does not like change and does not fundamentally seem to connect or understand you.

Sorry but no OP. I was married to a man like that for 20 years and to be quite honest he shut down more every single year.
It was bloody awful and I could have screamed at the lack of communication, I am so relieved he has gone.
Respecting other peoples needs and feelings is not "drama" it's just stone cold.
You are not allowed to be emotional, have romantic occasions and you have to do all the work re: moving.
Sorry I know you will regret this relationship.

This was my relationship! I was with a man for 7 years who wouldn't discuss anything remotely emotional. If I asked him whether he loved me he would say "of course what man wouldn't" or if I said "I love you" I would get "ditto". Nothing was moving forward but he wanted me to up sticks and move an hour to where he lived even though I have children and he has none living at home. His daughter left to live with her mum when she was 6 and the house is like a shrine to her (she is now 28!). I used to get so frustrated which spilled over into arguments and he said I always making a drama. So I broke up with him 3+ years ago. He begged and begged me to take him back, he was going to change, bombarded me with letters, sometimes two or three would arrive in the post a day, flowers (he never sent flowers before, ever!) he put masses of money in my bank when he knew I was struggling (even though I was struggling for all the time he knew me and he is on £60K, would never help once). He send the most amazing love letters saying i was his best friend, soul mate, he loved me more than anything and would not do anything to risk losing me again. So after three months apart we tried again. It lasted about a year before he reverted back to where we were. So last summer we broke up for good, I just couldn't handle it any more. I text him (he never answers his phone unless I say I am going to call) to say could we talk, I was unhappy and needed to discuss our relationship. He blocked me, cut off all contact and sent my housekey back through the post a couple of days later. I have had no contact with him since, although oddly enough he sent my grandson a birthday card in December! I love him to pieces but the emotional detachment I couldn't do. I do wonder whether he has Asperger's, he is so literal but at the end of the day we just couldn't meet each others needs. I'm gutted because we were such good friends before we got together and I miss that. If the relationship isn't meeting your emotional needs you will end up really lonely, I know I was through the whole relationship.

@ejecoms

Do you think he could be autistic? He is unable to be empathic, does not like change and does not fundamentally seem to connect or understand you.

Jeez. He's just less forthcoming emotionally and conflict avoidant than OP. People are allowed to be different without somebody needing a diagnosis.

Why do you have such an itch to pathologise? A medical professional isn't going to take 'Does not deeply understand OP emotionally' as even a potential key symptom of autism. Why would you?

The autism thing has crossed my mind but I tend to agree with @Eckhart that it’s not pathology but personality. Even it was “something” the core inability to listen to/address my needs is the issue for me rather than the root cause. If I had to guess I’d say he just doesn’t like conflict and he is seeking a relationship with all the good bits and none of the hard stuff which could just be construed as selfish and immature. He is quite childlike, quite impulsive, I’ve often internally questioned his decision making processes. He doesn’t seem to go deeply into anything....example that he said him and his ex decided to buy their first flat in less time that it would take to choose a pair of shoes. In answer to the query about my own upbringing and past...yes, there’s patterns, isn’t their always!! We didn’t really do big needs in our house and I’m aware that this makes it extra super difficult to articulate mine. But I’m reasonably self aware and can differentiate usually between what are legitimate concerns in the present to the stuff I’m carrying from the past. The more I read responses the more aware I am that my needs are valid, to me anyway, and that swallowing them is going to take me down a lonely road.
I guess I just can’t shake off the hope here though, at least worth trying to express to him?? I think I would regret if I simply walked away at this point. Currently I’m not living with him, no practicalities at stake as yet.....

Also, it’s worth pointing out that he has some key qualities that I value greatly. He’s a good communicator (just not about emotional stuff), super reliable and consistent. He does tell me and show me that he loves me. I’m not starved of affection. We make plans, he’s adventurous and driven. We share interests and views. It’s the conflict/inability to go beyond the surface and the disdain for uncomfortable situations that’s affecting me and, I suppose, my sense that he’s possibly still holding on to a past life at the expense of having two feet in the future.