Shocked by DD's friend's parents.

[supersop60]

I'm seeking advice that I can give to my DD's friend. I have never come across a situation like this, and I'll try to be clear.
DD's friend is at Uni. She, like a normal student, has had a few relationships and has recently met a new man. She has discovered that her (D)M knows about this man, by logging onto her daughter's Instagram account!
All hell has broken lose with the parents. Friend has brought shame upon the family etc. They have now issued an ultimatum - either her (D)F moves to Uni town and friend lives with him for the remainder of her course, OR she is cut off from the family altogether.
I'd like to ask MN what your views are, and what help might be available to this poor girl.
For background, the family are Pakistani Christian and have lived in the UK for most of their married life.

[user18467425798532]

karmanirvana.org.uk may be a useful contact if she doesn't already have it. They specialise in this kind of situation.

[AlternativePerspective]

Her parents strong opinions must have been known to their daughter so what was she thinking of, to be so indiscreet they found out. Just like all those married people who leave their phone lying about with incriminating messages from their lovers. wtf? There’s a vast difference between a cheating husband leaving his phone lying around and an adult who is perfectly legally in a relationship alluding to it on instagram.

And the evidence isn’t incriminating she’s doing nothing wrong, they are.

But do carry on victim blaming.

[user18467425798532]

Karma Nirvana support victims of honour-based abuse and forced marriage.

The concept of ‘honour’ is deemed to be extremely important for some people. To compromise a family’s ‘honour’ is to bring dishonour and shame and this can have severe consequences. The punishment for bringing dishonour can be emotional abuse, physical abuse, family disownment and in some cases even murder.

[supersop60]

@2bazookas

Her parents strong opinions must have been known to their daughter so what was she thinking of, to be so indiscreet they found out. Just like all those married people who leave their phone lying about with incriminating messages from their lovers.

I don't think she was indiscreet. Her mum hacked into her phone from 150 miles away and read her private messages.
I think that is actually a crime.

[AlternativePerspective]

Send a message to parents saying not going out with him/broken up with him (whichever fits) and then just go carry on with life without putting it online. and if the relationship progresses? What then? Should the boyfriend be happy being her dirty little secret?

Or if the relationship doesn’t last will she have to go through this every time she becomes involved with someone her parents don’t approve of until she gives in and marries the man of their dreams whether they like it or not?

This is like an abusive relationship. The more you give in for a quiet life, the harder it becomes to stand up for yourself.

[oil0W0lio]

@supersop60

I would have said that they already live a 'western' life. Having met them and been to their house on several occasions since the girls were 11.

they want the benefits of a western life whilst continuing to hold onto primitive backward misogynistic practices...more like!

[Alexandernevermind]

Really @2bazookas? On no level is this the poor young woman's fault!!

[Daydreamsinglorioustechnicolor]

@AlternativePerspective

Send a message to parents saying not going out with him/broken up with him (whichever fits) and then just go carry on with life without putting it online. and if the relationship progresses? What then? Should the boyfriend be happy being her dirty little secret?

Or if the relationship doesn’t last will she have to go through this every time she becomes involved with someone her parents don’t approve of until she gives in and marries the man of their dreams whether they like it or not?

This is like an abusive relationship. The more you give in for a quiet life, the harder it becomes to stand up for yourself.

But by that time she would be financially independent, getting on with life etc and being disowned easier to manage in the practical sense.

I'm not sure what else she can do really. It would be very hard to go it alone at 20.

[Notaroadrunner]

She may as well make the break from her parents now if possible. She's in therapy already because of them, they are getting worse, so things won't likely get better between them. Her counselling can help her to let go of them and stand on her own two feet emotionally, but she will need financial assistance and I hope the college can help with this.

[GrumpyHoonMain]

A lot of what you’re suggesting will make things worse. I actually think her moving in with her dad is fine. They aren’t pulling her out of uni, they aren’t telling her to break up, they want her to focus on university. Most Pakistani Christians living in the UK have very real reasons to reject Pakistani culture and the issues around honor is not the same as with Pakistani Hindus Muslims or Sikhs. Chances are if she does what they say while at uni they may let her marry him.

Another amenable Pakistani christian friend or family member to mediate would be the best thing. As an outsider your interference could make things worse.

[user18467425798532]

It's not like an abusive relationship, it is an abusive relationship.

[hatedbytheDailyMail]

I imagine she is rightly shocked and appalled at them hacking her SM, but she can't be surprised at how they've reacted to her seeing guys, surely? They won't have kept their expectations from her, the opposite if anything

[user18467425798532]

I actually think her moving in with her dad is fine.

You think coercive control is fine?

[BlackForestCake]

I actually think her moving in with her dad is fine

Are you on glue?

Going to university is about becoming independent of your parents, not having them control your every move.

[supersop60]

@GrumpyHoonMain

A lot of what you’re suggesting will make things worse. I actually think her moving in with her dad is fine. They aren’t pulling her out of uni, they aren’t telling her to break up, they want her to focus on university. Most Pakistani Christians living in the UK have very real reasons to reject Pakistani culture and the issues around honor is not the same as with Pakistani Hindus Muslims or Sikhs. Chances are if she does what they say while at uni they may let her marry him.

Another amenable Pakistani christian friend or family member to mediate would be the best thing. As an outsider your interference could make things worse.

Firstly - she doesn't want to marry him!! She would like to be able to have a boyfriend, is all.
They ARE telling her to break up.
Moving in with her dad is NOT fine. he will control her every waking moment.
I am not interefering. I am asking MN what practical help I can offer.

[AlternativePerspective]

Daydreamsinglorioustechnicolor But she won’t be emotionally independent because they won’t allow that to happen. And living with her father means that her whole life will be policed. Her friends, where she goes, who she’s with, in time she will have to give up all of that and then independence will be even harder to come by.

And while at 20 financial independence is difficult, it is by no means impossible.

Do we say to a SAHM in an abusive relationship that she shouldn’t leave because she will find it impossible to gain financial independence in her situation? No we encourage her to seek help to find that independence so she can free herself.

This is no different. She’s not a child, she’s 20.

[aliloandabanana]

@combatbarbie

If they are putting their religious views before a child's, no matter the age, I'd cut them off.

These are their cultural, rather than religious, beliefs. Not particularly relevant, but they might get support from others with the same cultural background but not from many other Christians in this country (well, none I would hope).

Sadly, I know of someone from an Indian background who had a white British girlfriend all through uni, moved in with her afterwards, but never told his parents. He then dumped her to have an arranged marriage a couple of years later.

If her parents feel so strongly about this then she will have to choose between having a life of liberty and remaining part of the family - what an awful choice to have to make.

[FossilisedFanny]

I actually think her moving in with her dad is fine

It really isn’t fine, it’s controlling.

[oil0W0lio]

It would be very hard to go it alone at 20
maybe compared to having loving & supportive parents, but this girl clearly doesnt, her parents are behaving like enemies rather than friends, all they want to do is own and control her, a good parent wants their child to flourish and explore opportunities

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life’s longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer’s hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable.
Kahlil Gibran

[AlternativePerspective]

There are parents on here who are younger than she is. Single parents, who are having to make their way in life with a baby in the mix.

To suggest that this (adult) woman should stay under the control of her parents until she is deemed able to leave is abhorrent. I don’t care what culture they’re from. They’re abusive and she’s being abused and should be able to leave.

[Curioushorse]

Get her to contact Southall Black Sisters. They are an amazing organisation and will have just the advice (and, sadly, experience): southallblacksisters.org.uk/

I'm afraid we had a really similar situation with one of my best friends when she went to university. It didn't go well, but Southall Black Sisters supported her through everything, and their advice was spot on. Unfortunately, down to the level of being able to say exactly how the parents would behave and react. Yeah, we had also known friend and her parents from the age of 11. We also would never have thought they'd behave in this way.

[Cpl1586407]

If they are conservative Christians then it's probably about her having sex tbh. My parents were like that, the idea that I would be having sex in uni was a bit alien to them, believe it or not (am in my 30s)

[CoconutFatFeast]

I’ve been the ‘boyfriend’ in a scenario like this. My boyfriend’s family found out about us, beat him up and told him he would never see the family again, including his terminally ill parent, unless he went ahead with an arranged (arguably forced) marriage. That’s what he did. It didn’t end well. Now divorced and banished from the family anyway. I’m not sure what practical support your DD can offer other than to continue to listen to her friend and signpost to services as PP have mentioned.