Shocked by DD's friend's parents.

[supersop60]

I'm seeking advice that I can give to my DD's friend. I have never come across a situation like this, and I'll try to be clear.
DD's friend is at Uni. She, like a normal student, has had a few relationships and has recently met a new man. She has discovered that her (D)M knows about this man, by logging onto her daughter's Instagram account!
All hell has broken lose with the parents. Friend has brought shame upon the family etc. They have now issued an ultimatum - either her (D)F moves to Uni town and friend lives with him for the remainder of her course, OR she is cut off from the family altogether.
I'd like to ask MN what your views are, and what help might be available to this poor girl.
For background, the family are Pakistani Christian and have lived in the UK for most of their married life.

[supersop60]

I have passed on all the contacts that pp have suggested. I can't make her follow them up, but I hope she does.

[Bythemillpond]

Update: they are now trying the tactic of emotional blackmail
Eg
your father is very hurt that you don't want to live with him
We just want to get to know you better
We're worried that you won't get your degree (she's on track for a 1st

No surprise.
It might be hard to go NC but ultimately it is going to save this girl a lot of heart ache and a lot of battles.
She sounds like a sensible girl and I know it is hard to turn her back but she can’t go through life living like this. Where she can’t do right for doing wrong. Her parents changing the goal posts when they feel she needs reigning in because she is overstepping some changeable boundaries.
The job incident would have been a red flag to know that they don’t mean what they say and if you can’t trust what they say then there isn’t a relationship apart from asking them to make every decision and her complying and even then it is subject to them changing their minds.

When she is older snd has her life sorted and she feels stronger then if she chooses she could start a relationship with her parents again but until then she would be better off on her own making her own decisions.
They had 18 years to get to know her and if she is on track to get a first even if she is living a life they don’t approve of then why would they want to make her miserable and ruin her chances.

University isn’t just about getting the best degree you can but also about the contacts and friends you make there which will last a life time. Cutting her out of this part of university life isn’t going to do her any favours
If anything I think they want her to live with her father or have some control over her because they want to say that the only reason she gets a first is because they were instrumental in her getting it and will hold it over her for the rest of her life.

In this case my advice would be to build a wall between herself and her parents. Not something I would normally advise in someone so young and after university don’t leave a forwarding address.

[yikesanotherbooboo]

Agree, she should contact experts. These are people who, at best , are putting her educational attainment ahead of her personal happiness and may indeed be putting their reputations ahead of her happiness. How shabby!

[StillWeRise]

so they are gaslighting her
please if your DD has any influence get her to contact the specialist orgs referenced here or at least read up on domestic abuse (which can be parent to child) honour based violence and forced marriage.

[pointythings]

We just want to get to know you better

They had 18 years to do that!
I really hope she contacts the organisations referenced in this thread and gets the support she needs so that she can manage how she handles her family.

[supersop60]

Update: they are now trying the tactic of emotional blackmail.
Eg,
your father is very hurt that you don't want to live with him.
We just want to get to know you better
We're worried that you won't get your degree (she's on track for a 1st)

[AgentJohnson]

They were always these people, hence therapy. It’s crunch time, if she wants privacy and independence than the price to pay for that, is her parents going nc with her.

It’s very sad but the balls in her court.

[StillWeRise]

I'm afraid I agree, its good that they have compromised but there is no telling what they may be planning. I'll say it again she needs advice from someone who is familiar with this culture, who can explain what might happen.

[Bythemillpond]

I doubt it, in their minds they still are rightfully the highest ranking and should be afforded the obedience of their daughter, they will be regrouping and re assessing their strategy to bring her to heel

Agree with this. They aren’t going to do a complete U turn on their beliefs.
They will be coming up with some strategy to get their daughter to obey

I think she does need to protect herself from her families idea of protection

[MavisGallavanting]

@oil0W0lio

The parents sound as though they are compromising though
I doubt it, in their minds they still are rightfully the highest ranking and should be afforded the obedience of their daughter, they will be regrouping and re assessing their strategy to bring her to heel

You seem very knowledgeable? What's this based on?

[huuuuunnnndderrricks]

Is she meant to have an arranged marriage? She is if no use to them if she doesn't I guess . Some cultures are brutal!

[Bythemillpond]

I wonder what else they have up their sleeves.
I walked away at the age of 21 from my family. One of the reasons was because I could never have a friend (even in school) that my mother hadn’t vetted. She always found a problem with anyone I brought home amongst a lot of other bigger issues.
I too was given the ultimatum of being with my bf or never seeing my family again
It was for me a very easy decision.
There had been other times where I had stood firmly against an ultimatum and my family had folded only for them to come up with some other way of keeping control of me.

[oil0W0lio]

The parents sound as though they are compromising though
I doubt it, in their minds they still are rightfully the highest ranking and should be afforded the obedience of their daughter, they will be regrouping and re assessing their strategy to bring her to heel

[MuddyWalks]

@justanotherneighinparadise

Well the parents don’t want her to have sex before marriage. I don’t agree but it’s obvious what the issue is.

I believe that's not uncommon in Pakistan culture. The parents sound as though they are compromising though.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

They have withdrawn their ultimatum (presumeably because she didn't give in)

I guess it's a relief in a way, but wouldn't assume it's because she resisted ... it's entirely possible her DF decided that the upheaval of moving to where she is would inconvenience him

You're still doing the right thing suggesting "student support", but be prepared for her to park the entire issue now the immediate crisis is over

[Bluetrews25]

Sheesh, that's big of them

[justanotherneighinparadise]

Well the parents don’t want her to have sex before marriage. I don’t agree but it’s obvious what the issue is.

[supersop60]

Update:
There has been a development.
The parents facetimed their daughter together, late last night.
They have withdrawn their ultimatum (presumeably because she didn't give in), and told her she can stay in her accommodation and finish her course, although they very much disapprove of what she is doing.
So, no immediate danger, but I shall still recommend she contacts Student Support etc in case she needs them in the future.
Thank you for taking time to rspond.

[MavisGallavanting]

*as, not are!

[MavisGallavanting]

'they want the benefits of a western life whilst continuing to hold onto primitive backward misogynistic practices...more like!'

the same poster refers to the girl being treated like 'chattel'

Massive dog whistles here, tbh. There are women on here who post about not being able to spend £15 of their own money and having their husbands forcibly bath them every night! I don't see the same language for some reason, because I guess there's an assumption they're white and not in proximity to Muslim culture.

I'm not excusing the parents - I have cut my own parents off. I'm 40. It took 20 years of estrangement, after which I realised that they're not going to change - hence my advice earlier that the girl should cut them off now.

It's not easy at all, you don't experience your parents are backwards cultural stereotypes. You assume they will always be there for you, because that's a basic expectation. There's no other set of people giving you a roof over your head - except in this case, the girl has support from the poster and good friends and it will be easier for her hopefully, given the resources that everyone is pointing to.

Making her parents' behaviour seem as though it's completely OFF some spectrum of coercive control that happens to women regardless of their background serves dodgy ulterior motives imo.

[Hoppinggreen]

Although I do agree what the parents are doing is awful this girl must have known the risk she was taking so this can hardly come as a surprise (although she probably didn’t think they would find out). The parents probably love their daughter and think they are doing the right thing for her - I asked an acquaintance once why he would be upset if his daughter married/dated outside their culture. He said it was because she would lose her family and entire community.
Obviously that’s completely wrong but it might be the case for this girl so anyone encouraging this girl to do what she wants and ignore her family need to be aware of what the results may be. If the girl totally understands that and still decides to ignore her families wishes then fine but it’s not easy at her age to walk away from everyone she knew growing up.
Hopefully a middle way can be found

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

It's generous of you to offer your home, OP but I imagine the parents will know where that is

The same thought occurred to me
It seems absolutely the right thing to do to help the friend with accessing appropriate support, but I'm not sure I'd want to involve my family home in this. The family would probably blame you for "interfering" - possibly even think you're a "corrupting influence" - and you could easily end up with some ugly scenes on your doorstep

Sometimes quiet and reliable background support can be better than going in all guns blazing, especially if there's every chance she'll bow down to the family's wishes in the end

[Wanderlusto]

They may be thinking about her moral integrity (because of the risk to her being granted eternal life). It's really no different than old school religious ppl not wanting ppl to have sex before marriage. Also, they may have found out other things she has been up to.

I dont necessarily think it's about control or cruelty. Just old fashioned views perhaps.

I think she needs to find someone to mediate a discussion between them. Perhaps a minister? Ideally one who is more forward thinking. Assuming that the daughter follows christianity too then surely she should want to do right by her faith. But perhaps the parents can be reasoned with a little as it sounds like theyve just had an extreme knee jerk reaction.

[WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants]

@GreenFingersWouldBeHandy

This is none of your business.

This kind of abuse is everyone's business

[WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants]

@GrumpyHoonMain

A lot of what you’re suggesting will make things worse. I actually think her moving in with her dad is fine. They aren’t pulling her out of uni, they aren’t telling her to break up, they want her to focus on university. Most Pakistani Christians living in the UK have very real reasons to reject Pakistani culture and the issues around honor is not the same as with Pakistani Hindus Muslims or Sikhs. Chances are if she does what they say while at uni they may let her marry him.

Another amenable Pakistani christian friend or family member to mediate would be the best thing. As an outsider your interference could make things worse.

She is 20, living in the U.K.

NO it's NOT ok for her Dad to move to her Uni town and force his 20 year old daughter to live with him so he can control her

She's a 20 year old woman, living in the U.K. NO, they can't pull her out if Uni

She's a 20 yo woman they cannot make her break up with him.

let her let her marry him????
Who says she even wants to
And if she does..she's a 20 year old woman living in the U.K. She does NOT need her parents permission.

FMD