LTB one day in the far future

[Friendsinneed]

I would love to find some online friends to get to know & to talk with, about wanting to leave their relationship, but who are not ready to yet!
I think I will always have an excuse not to leave him!! I want to get in a place where I believe that I will leave.

By having a place to vent ,like a personal diary, could really help to give us encouragement.

I want to write about what a dick he is without the LTB responses, because I’m not ready.

I’ve realised he is not malicious, but immature, as though a part of his brain hasn’t developed.
When I’m crying because he has been cruel, he thinks that it’s no big deal & get over it.

An example is if I have left a light on in the house, he will go out of his way to go to the shed & turn my bike light on & then when I’m relaxing in pjs he will let me know what he did & why he did it. He can’t help himself with things like this. Luckily it’s not too often but there have been a few bigger ones that play on my mind. I think I would be able to forgive him if he apologised but he doesn’t see what he does is wrong.

Is there anyone else there who wants to LTB one day?? x

Friendsinneed

“If my first post was telling the box story only, would people think it was abuse? I think nice guys get in moods & do horrible things too don’t they? I assume the big difference is that the nice guys feel bad afterwards & apologise??
I think it’s the lack of him feeling bad & never apologising that makes me realise that it isn’t normal.”

You answer your own question here. You’ve received some good advice in terms of planning to leave. Often the most difficult step is to admit that things aren’t right, and asking for support.

Keep your momentum up, make plans as suggested. Keep posting here if you feel it helps also

Why do you think it would be better to do it one day in the future? Why not now?

Just taking the light incident - do you want your children growing up knowing this and having this role modelling?

I get it. I do. It took me a year or longer to leave and even 7 years on sometimes I catch myself like I’m falling just thinking ‘but if I was still with him, I wouldn’t be alone’ or if I was with him my finances would be totally different.

My life is not happy. Really it isn’t. He gives me grief by proxy x2 a week with phone calls and constant needling. We moved 300 miles to get away from not just him but a totally toxic environment and work place.

I’m now in a position. That my house is on the market the kids and I have great jobs and schools but lockdown had meant we haven’t got the friendship support we wanted or our own home. But and this is the big one - no matter how much I think I might be low or miserable - I don’t have him fucking me around daily or controlling me every minute.
To give an example - he once told me he would be back at 5 pm so that I could attend a really important meeting after work, he told Me he would pick up the children etc from nursery etc he had texted to confirm, at 5.30 pm my meeting was interrupted by eldest son school to say they hadn’t been picked up. I phoned him - no reply. I went to the school and picked up the child - I had no one to take them at short notice and had to get the other children as well. I took them home - his car was there but he wasn’t. I fed and washed them and all in tears and heart pounding with my career in tatters as I hadn’t been able to do my presentation - he came in at 9 pm and laughed in my face. He then gas lit me saying ‘you didn’t say it was tonight and your fault’ despite texts and emails etc - this is one of hundreds of incidents - and my brain is so good at protecting me 7 years on - these are all but forgotten - only the big ones remain as my brain tired itself out thinking ‘why did he do that?’ ‘Could I have prevented it?’ ‘Have I remembered it correctly?’ As it analyses and replays it over and over to try to learn and make sense of it.

The light incident might not sound the same - but it is. He is doing the same, controlling you, controlling the situation and teaching you not to respond and not to expect ‘normal’ and not to expect him to be reasonable and that he can behave however he wants to keep you mentally and emotionally on Edge at all times - questioning what he is doing and what you are doing 24:7- it is exhausting and no way to live. The incidents are the same. They have the same outcome and same emotional response. Oh and just to say the light incident is how they start, or hiding your keys or not being there when agreed and every time you allow him to continue and don’t leave - he feeds on it and gets stronger and you get weaker and the situation places the odds every more in his favour.

This is why you watch for red flags and run like the wind. The quicker you escape the more there is of you and the less to repair.

So if you can - blind side. Focus on your career, confide in family and then run and dump - ie he comes home and house is empty and he meets divorce papers and you have already moved and got kids into new schools etc

Why do you think your own family don’t ever see your stories as a big deal?. That in itself is problematic. What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?

I don't think it is that unusual. I think I found it so hard to realise how bad things were with my husband as when I told my friends they would join in my moan, but no-one said, ' you do realise how deeply wrong that is? that is not normal. Why are you staying?' I guess they saw the loving side of him when we were out. Or maybe people don't want to interfere. Or maybe they just don't understand the long term drip drip drip effect of living like that. Or maybe , as one friend said, ' 'but you seemed so strong.' Maybe I looked like a strong woman in control - but I wasn't.

This is why mumsnet is so good. People here have been there. They are not charmed or confused by knowing the man in question and seeing his presentable side. They can see straight through to the heart of things and say what they see. I do wish some posters weren't attacking of posters though, as that can scare women away, it did me when I first reached out. Its very confusing when you still love someone. It takes a long time to make that shift to realise, its not you. It is them. And it will never change. And it is corroding
you.

OP I know exactly what you mean. The thought and reality of ending things is just too much to contemplate right now. Hopefully one day you will be able to do so. For now do what it takes to survive each day. Don't let the stupid stuff he does get to you, or at least don't let him see it does. But don't forget it. Because the danger in learning how to cope in order to build up to leaving is that you start to think it will be ok in the end. Keep the goal in mind and know that you can't change him, you can only change your response to him. I've been there, it's hard. Keep posting, it helps to 'talk'.

@Canitbemagic

Why do you think it would be better to do it one day in the future? Why not now?

Just taking the light incident - do you want your children growing up knowing this and having this role modelling?

I get it. I do. It took me a year or longer to leave and even 7 years on sometimes I catch myself like I’m falling just thinking ‘but if I was still with him, I wouldn’t be alone’ or if I was with him my finances would be totally different.

My life is not happy. Really it isn’t. He gives me grief by proxy x2 a week with phone calls and constant needling. We moved 300 miles to get away from not just him but a totally toxic environment and work place.

I’m now in a position. That my house is on the market the kids and I have great jobs and schools but lockdown had meant we haven’t got the friendship support we wanted or our own home. But and this is the big one - no matter how much I think I might be low or miserable - I don’t have him fucking me around daily or controlling me every minute.
To give an example - he once told me he would be back at 5 pm so that I could attend a really important meeting after work, he told Me he would pick up the children etc from nursery etc he had texted to confirm, at 5.30 pm my meeting was interrupted by eldest son school to say they hadn’t been picked up. I phoned him - no reply. I went to the school and picked up the child - I had no one to take them at short notice and had to get the other children as well. I took them home - his car was there but he wasn’t. I fed and washed them and all in tears and heart pounding with my career in tatters as I hadn’t been able to do my presentation - he came in at 9 pm and laughed in my face. He then gas lit me saying ‘you didn’t say it was tonight and your fault’ despite texts and emails etc - this is one of hundreds of incidents - and my brain is so good at protecting me 7 years on - these are all but forgotten - only the big ones remain as my brain tired itself out thinking ‘why did he do that?’ ‘Could I have prevented it?’ ‘Have I remembered it correctly?’ As it analyses and replays it over and over to try to learn and make sense of it.

The light incident might not sound the same - but it is. He is doing the same, controlling you, controlling the situation and teaching you not to respond and not to expect ‘normal’ and not to expect him to be reasonable and that he can behave however he wants to keep you mentally and emotionally on Edge at all times - questioning what he is doing and what you are doing 24:7- it is exhausting and no way to live. The incidents are the same. They have the same outcome and same emotional response. Oh and just to say the light incident is how they start, or hiding your keys or not being there when agreed and every time you allow him to continue and don’t leave - he feeds on it and gets stronger and you get weaker and the situation places the odds every more in his favour.

This is why you watch for red flags and run like the wind. The quicker you escape the more there is of you and the less to repair.

So if you can - blind side. Focus on your career, confide in family and then run and dump - ie he comes home and house is empty and he meets divorce papers and you have already moved and got kids into new schools etc

What a fantastic post.

OP, the nastiness is who he is, with both the bike and box.

You asked is it normal.

No it isn't.

Married nearly 30 years and never once would it occur to me to do something deliberately nasty towards my husband.
Nor would he do it to me.

If he did something like that even once, I would immediately know my marriage was in very serious trouble.

Why?

Because healthy, normal people in a marriage don't do deliberately nasty unkind things to each other to theach a lesson.

It really is THAT simply.

Nastiness is NOT part of a normal marriage.

Look at doing the Freedom Programme on line now.

OP I can relate. My partner is not abusive, in fact quite fun and complimentary and gentlemen-y, but I know he is a liar and cheater and cannot be trusted. Plus he becomes vile when he is left. I left him few times - and got back again, last time lured by his proposal, not that I wanted it - it was easier to keep peace that way rather having to keep fighting him off.
We get along alright but I cannot wait for the day when I am ready again, for good. I think the main thing that stops me from leaving is convenience having him around - otherwise I'd be very much on my own. Which is probably better but that is yet to sink in.

This is why mumsnet is so good. People here have been there. They are not charmed or confused by knowing the man in question and seeing his presentable side. They can see straight through to the heart of things and say what they see. I do wish some posters weren't attacking of posters though
So true and Mumsnet is a fantastic resource in this respect 💖
In the old days there was no way for women to collaborate and support each other like this we could only do on a small scale a so it was very difficult to find people who were farsighted enough to see things that we couldn't see.
now we can build and expand upon each other's insights, we can identify and analyse all the techniques used to dominate control and contain
I also often feel exasperated at at the criticism that some are subjected to for not being able to leave or see through bad partners, it can take time to break through the training and the conditioning

I hope the support on here is helpful to you OP. It is hard to have perspective on something that you are actually living inside.

In answer to your question above:
No - good guys do not deliberately do mean things to those they love.

Good guys can be selfish or lazy or moan at you about things you do that irritate them etc. (and yes -they'll probably be sorry afterwards) but they won't be coldly 'punishing' you in the ways you describe. He goes out of his way to cause you pain/distress/irritation to 'pay you back' for annoying him. He really works at it. This is not love.

Can a man with no empathy for you - love you? (He seems able to work out how you will feel well enough to 'get you back'. )
Can a man without any empathy love anyone?

I can see why you think you will leave him eventually. Just don't leave it until living in these conditions feels normal/right to you.

I would suggest that if someone is without empathy yes they can love you but they will love you in the way that one loves an object
An object which they possess and can do with as they please

In your last post you said "I do sometimes share stories with my family & they don’t ever see them as a big deal."

OP in the kindest way, it really doesn't matter what other people think. You think it's a big deal. So it is. You don't need other people to agree with you to justify how you feel about your DH. I'm sorry that your family don't give you the support you need. The fact that you're on here tells us that you know it's not how a relationship should be and that you need some support to talk it all through.

@Friendsinneed this thread is so sad. Do you think that perhaps your boundaries are a bit bad because of your family background? I ask because if I told my mum either of those stories I'd have to hold her back from giving my DH a real earful. He is controlling you by teaching you some sort of 'lesson' which is breathtaking lou horrible.

You say he's not malicious but disordered, I respectfully disagree. The level of spite there from the father of your children is unpleasant to read. They may be too young now, but even toddlers pick up on emotions in the home, even if they don't understand the words. The fact that he can switch off the moods and vicious 'lessons' in front of the kids / family show you this is about controlling & hurting YOU, not his personality. In all honesty, yes, a single one of those incidents would be enough for me to despise him.

I know you said you weren't ready, that you would be if he cheated on you. So he can continue to do this to you when you step out of line? What happens when your children leave a light on? Or the fridge open? They do that a lot. Will they need to be 'taught' a lesson? Or will they learn to be nasty to you as well, to show you how wrong you are? If he never cheats, is this your life?

If you deprive a plant of things it needs - by limiting its light perhaps - it will often still grow but not as well as it could have. Slowly but steadily - perhaps invisibly- the plant is affected.

If you improve the conditions soon enough, the effect can be countered, but leave it too long and the damage will last.

Living like this will be having an effect on you - each day.
You need more light in your life; you do deserve it - because all of us do.

@oil0W0lio

I would suggest that if someone is without empathy yes they can love you but they will love you in the way that one loves an object An object which they possess and can do with as they please

I know from experience that they don't love you. They love what you mean to them. They love what you bring to their lives. They don't love you. They don't really see you, or understand you. You as a person in your own right don't really exist to them.

They may very sincerely believe they love you but that it just because they are incapable of understanding what real love is.

The one thing that sprung out in your first post was that you said he wasn't malicious but the examples you gave afterwards clearly contradict that statement. The bike light example is pre meditated and malicious. The fact you can't ask him anything if he's already in a mood, you can't live a life walking on eggshells. He may well be on the spectrum, however that isn't a free pass to act like an complete dick.

You will not like a lot of responses on here, however please do read any links or books recommended i.e why does he do that... You are in an abusive relationship and whilst you can't see it fully now, you are half way there and you should be considering a plan to leave when you feel stronger.

Also be under no illusion that the children are or will be affected by this relationship.....they will and it doesn't matter how much you think your Shielding them.

You’re not ready to leave and that entirely your decision.

In the meantime though, please do not kid yourself that he doesn’t know what he’s doing. He is abusive and minimising that is not going to help you or your children. You need to see his behaviour for what it is, not make excuses for him.

In your box scenario, my husband would have bought it in for me. As he frequently does with shopping or coats that I’ve left in the car. He doesn’t say a word, just helps. I’m forever leaving our garden light on (put it on for the dog and forget to switch it off when she comes in). I know it drives him nuts but he never does anything other than switch it back off again.

I wish you strength for the future, I bet once you’ve left you’ll regret not having done it sooner.

It’s easy from the outside to say LTB. IRL it takes a huge amount of courage and energy. However, your children are being hardwired now to think his attitude is the normal way to behave towards others, let alone the direct affects on them. Also, speaking as an older Mumsnetter, life really is too short to put up with this shitty lack of respect for you. The sooner you make the move, the sooner life will improve. Can you speak your parents/friends for support?

It is truly nice to read through people’s thoughts & experiences.
Some of you really seem to understand how complex a relationship like this can be. It is nice to know that there are people who understand.

A lot of people are concerned about our children. I don’t know how he will be as they get older. If we were separated they would still spend time with him, but at the moment he enjoys having them think that he is amazing. He likes to be fun & happy around them. I can’t imagine him being mean towards them. I feel as though my eyes would be opened wide if he ever did anything horrible towards them!!

He is a likeable guy to others & often puts on a fake persona.
Something that has always bothered me is how he can be horrible to me one minute & then pick up the phone, or put the tv on & do huge belly laughs. I’m sure most people think that he is an easy going guy x

Many abusers can appear to be plausible to those in the outside world. That is the impression they like to give but its an act and one they cannot maintain. "Street angel, house devil" is also an apt description. I would also think that perhaps one or two of your own friends have their own private based suspicions re your H.

Make no mistake, your H hates your very being and will likely further emotionally harm your children in not too dissimilar ways as to how you have been harmed to date.

Good fathers do not abuse the mother of their children.
Do you think he would be at all bothered with his children post separation; he could well use them as a means of getting back at you. He may demand 50% of the week but in reality he may not actually see them that often or farm them out to his parents. He will certainly continue to be abusive towards you post separation and won't be amicable about any aspect of separating from him when you are ready to do so. The boiled frog analogy is one I would urge you to read as well.

he's able to be 'fun and happy' with the children because he can take out his frustrations on you and it suits him to have the loyalty of the children

also life is much easier for a manipulative person others trust them implicitly, that way you have an open goal and can do what you like with them, it's easy to get little kids to trust you, 'candy from a baby' etc.
That's why they put such a lot of effort into maintaining the public image.

I get how you feel OP, my H can be somewhat like this too— he seems to like pointing out and making a big fuss about stuff that annoys like occasional mud on a shoe or forgetting to switch a socket off — but mainly his tantrums relate to situational stuff like a work email, annoying colleague, other drivers etc— I often feel like a whipping post for all his frustrations — and yet like you I don’t think it’s malicious, I think it’s poor self control of moods and temper. I think one day these guys like this will just flip our switch and we will think ‘enough’

"Something that has always bothered me is how he can be horrible to me one minute & then pick up the phone, or put the tv on & do huge belly laughs."

That reminds me of my EXDP... in the middle of a 6-week silent treatment punishment (for what I'll never know) some friends popped in. He was laughing, smiling, chatty - the life and soul of the party. The second the door was closed behind them, back to the silent treatment...

He knew exactly what he was doing, as does your DH.

It's hard to take it in that the person who's meant to love you is being deliberately mean. Your lightbulb moment will come.

Mine can when I phoned my EX after I'd a blow out on the motorway. I was lucky I wasn't killed. I phoned him and asked him to give me the phone number for the breakdown service. He said he didn't know where it was and hung up on me.

Standing in the side of the motorway, I sobbed. Not because I was hurt physically, but because the penny had finally dropped that he really didn't care if I'd died.

We may be married to the same man.
Although I’m 6 years down the line from this shitty side showing itself and it started off as very occasional outbursts or lies and now I really just resent him. He’s awful now. So I imagine it may get worse for you.

I used to think he was just messed up from having a dad who is a bully. But, having experienced him do the thing of switching off the anger as soon as someone shows up at the door, to switching it back on again when they go - I know he knows exactly what he’s doing and he is trying to control the situation and possibly dampen my spirit which he has actually managed.

I want to leave and I know that I will and I have actually been planning it for a while now. It’s just that it would be so so much easier in a few years time when my youngest is in school and I’ve worked my way up a bit more at work. I don’t want to leave and then put myself in a worse position. I want to think about my future and do the right thing for the long term.

I’ve told my DH this though. He knows that I’m done with him and he just says he’s going to change and by the time I’m wanting to leave - he will be a new man and will have proven that he’s learnt from his mistakes. It’s hilarious actually, because he’s been saying sorry for years.

I just struggle to disengage. I struggle to let go of the need to be loved by him. I really need some therapy of some kind. I have just done the freedom programme online which was really eye opening. I have also just starting reading the book ‘men who hate women’ which is again eye opening.

I think that’s who we are married to. Men who hate women. Deep down. Their is no respect, love, care. Unless I’m being the complaint little wife and then he’s lovely. It’s like he’s trying to train me like a dog.

I do see the concern for my kids. I really am gutted that Ive stayed this long. But now I just plan to strengthen myself and my finances so that I can leave and be in a good place!

It’s like he’s trying to train me like a dog
nah, HE'S the dog, you can train him
stop telling him your thoughts and feelings, humour him, only tell him what you need him to know, make your plans silently so that you can leave when it's best for you.