“And then I go and spoil it all by saying something stupid”

[Nancyandfrank]

Firstly I have to warn you that this is massively indulgent. But I need someone to tell me what actually is happening here.

I’m mid fifties, widowed, comfortably off, with teen children. In my twenties I was with a man for 5 years. We were deeply in love but my parents didn’t really approve, he was younger than me and with hindsight needed a bit more time, and I was swept off my feet by an older man, who ultimately dumped me. Fast forward and we both married and had children. We don’t live near each other, I haven’t seen him in person for years, but we have always stayed in touch.

He has a wife. She is very unwell, and is not well enough to be cared for at home. She was very sadly brain injured in an accident some years ago. He is not disloyal but is clear that their marriage as it was, is over.

We message every day, sometimes a few times a day. It’s just what we are doing, how the families are, did you see XYZ on the news. Bit of flirting, no more than that. I have several times given him the option not to reply if he doesn’t want to, or has too much on his plate, but he always does.

So we have these chatty little conversations and I want to say “I love you. I always have. I don’t expect anything from you, you’re not in a position to do anything and I don’t want to make you uncomfortable. But I feel like I’ll burst if I don’t say it.” And then I think “he probably knows anyway.”

In all other ways I am eminently sensible. What on earth is going on here?

I’ve decided that there will be no declarations. None. And to step things back to more infrequent, top line chat, not daily messages. Basically, I’m trying to get a grip.
And who knows what might happen in the future. He knows about me, and as many of you have pointed out, there is nothing to be done anyway at the moment.

Idk OP. If he likes you and you like him then maybe you could bring each other some happiness.

Please don't limit yourself, either. There are other men out there who are free and single like you and looking for a meaningful relationship .

A friend of mine is in a similar position to you, except both her two children are in their 20s, and she's developed a lovely relationship with a man that suits them both and both of them are widowed.

If his wife is truly brain-damaged and there is no prospect for them resuming any kind of life together then I think it is reasonable for him to have a relationship with you, if that's what you both want. There is no reason why he cannot continue to fulfill his commitments to his wife and have a life with you. This is a rare case where he doesn't have to choose between you or his wife, he can honor his commitments to you both.

He deserves a life as does his wife. Because his wife cannot have one shouldn't mean he can't either.

If I was his wife I wouldn't expect him to put his life on hold for me when I cannot provide him with any kind of relationship.

Why not dip your toes in the water and say something like 'I'd really like to see you more often.' and see where it goes.

Then he can divorce her. It's allowed, you know? You don't have to have a OW .

@rawalpindithelabrador

Then he can divorce her. It's allowed, you know? You don't have to have a OW .

Maybe he doesn't think his wife would cope with a divorce? It might also put her in an unsafe position re NOK. Maybe that would be too much for their children who have already part lost their mom, and lost their homelife as was.

What he has with op isn't taking anything away from his wife. She's not losing any part of him because all that was lost in the intervening decade.

He's continuing to provide support and care for his wife, continuity as much as possible for the kids, what exactly is the harm being committed here?

What you're doing is immoral.

You’re not doing anything wrong. Hi for a walk with him, find out more, then see how you feel.

bloodyhairy You’re immoral!

As many people have said, if it were us (the wife) we’d be ok with it. You have no idea how she would have summed up a possible situation like this pre accident.

@bloodyhairy

What you're doing is immoral.

No it's not.

@Nancyandfrank

My EX-MIL had 'a friend', 'Fred'. He was in the same situation as your friend. MIL & 'Fred' worked together & they became very close friends, then it turned into a relationship. He had been upfront that he wouldn't divorce his wife & would continue to do anything she needed & he'd see her & look after her, that he loved her, but more like a sister etc he told my MIL that he loved her & wanted to be in a relationship with her IF she was happy with what he could give her & what he couldn't. She was & they were very happy together for many years, his wife was loved & looked after in the same way she always had been since her accident, but he had a life too. The saddest thing was he never felt able to tell his (adult) children and when he died in an accident she read about it the next day in the local paper. It was heartbreaking. She didn't even feel she could go to his funeral. He was a lovely, lovely bloke and we all missed him.

You have to decide if you could be ok with your friend still being married to her & looking out/caring for her and anything this might restrict in your lives before you tell him you love him & be honest with him about accepting his wife's place in his life.

It's a big thing for you both to accept snd navigate, but if you can be honest & talk properly to each other it's doable IF you both want it to be.

I was quoting someone else. I meant that her casting such judgment is far more immoral to me.

@bloodyhairy

What you're doing is immoral.

Can you expand on why? Bearing in mind so far they've not discussed feeling or hopes or the future?

I think those giving it “he’s married and it’s not over” are being a little black and white. His wife is brain damaged and in care. For me I’d not consider this a marriage he needs to remain faithful in. And if it was my husband I’d want him to find someone else, not live a life of celibacy on his own.

However wanting to declare you love him is a bit batshit and hardly something he’s going to relish. There’s a time and a place. And this ain’t it.

I think people are far too black and white over his marriage. Either way the man can’t win.

If he entered into a relationship with someone else people here would call him cheating scum and the woman a home wrecker. But if he divorced his wife people would judge him for leaving her because of her illness. This is actually one of those situations where someone is in a non existant marriage and are forced by circumstances to stay in that marriage.

Expecting the man to remain celibate for the rest of his life or until his wife dies (bearing in mind she could outlive him still) is completely unreasonable. And if something like that happened to me I would want my DP to move on. Any decent person would.

I worked with many people with brain injury and this dilemma often came up. It sounds as though this poor lady is in some sort of care facility, so effectively they are not married any more. He can move on with his life, whilst still fighting her corner for the best possible care and visiting her. I would not want my OH to have his life completely curtailed if I were in this wife's situation.

Sometimes it took many years before the spouse could move on with their lives - and a lot of happiness wasted.

It is 10 years since this lady had her accident - it may be time for everyone to move on - I am sure her children would not want their Dad to be lonely.

If you think you can take the possible problems that may arise, then simply go into it with your eyes open.

You do not have to dive in with "I love you!" - you could gradually say such things as how much you value your chats etc.

I think it's a good idea to pull back a little bit, as you are clearly letting your feelings run away with you, and you could easily get hurt if you eventually meet him and it's a disappointment.
But keeping in touch occasionally, then maybe meeting up when lockdown is over? Doesn't sound ridiculous as long as you don't go into it expecting to fall into one another's arms.
At your age you presumably know that it could be difficult with his wife, her family, his family, society in general. You might well get comments like some of the ones on this thread; not everyone is going to be understanding. But if you're up to that kind of thing...

@rawalpindithelabrador

I wonder how this would read if the OP was a man wanting to do this to his brain-damaged wife. He is married. He can't leave. No amount of bloody talking or communicating or having a coffee is going to make her anything but the OW and she's the one who'll get hurt.

She is free and single. Why on Earth shouldn't she be deserving of a man who is the same and doesn't have to make her the OW to have a relationship? Because there are other men out there. He's not the only one.

Cannot believe people are suggesting she become an OW. He is married and cannot leave. It's sad, but that's the way it is.

I can’t believe people expect someone to sit lonely and sad in a marriage that you can’t have any form of relationship with your spouse because they’re so ill. For decades! I’d hate hate hate my husband to do that. If I were left brain damaged and not me anymore I’d want him to have a life with someone else. He wouldn’t be able to have a relationship with me, not even a proper friendship, and I wouldn’t know what was going on... It wouldn’t hurt me.

This sort of situation is the ONLY time I can excuse an affair. I’d probably feel poorly towards him if he divorced her and walked away with another woman, but to continue to make sure his beloved wife was well cared for while having another girlfriend for an actual relationship is quite understandable imo. But OP you are likely to be in this situation for years. And youre likely to have judgemental family members or friends that do expect him to live like a monk and have a lonely life. You have to be able to take all that with grace. So if it’s only days for you, and you’re dreaming a bit because of the past then I’d say keep this as friendship for a lot longer before crossing any lines. It’s a very sensitive situation and isn’t going to be like a normal relationship.

I wonder how this would read if the OP was a man wanting to do this to his brain-damaged wife. He is married. He can't leave. No amount of bloody talking or communicating or having a coffee is going to make her anything but the OW

I wondered how our would go if op was a woman but it was her partner in the care facility.
If she'd been effectively alone for a decade, figuring for the best care for her husband, visiting regularly, raising the kids on her own but she was lonely. She couldn't divorce him - the anguish it would cause him and the kids not to mention the NOK issues - worried other people might bad decisions for him etc. Should she accept she could never have another relationship until he died, which could be decades?

I don’t think it matters who is writing this. I think the marriage is over in any sense apart from the legal side. The person in the care facility is not going to get better and the person they were isn’t there anymore.
There are 2 people who can grab a bit of happiness and the 3rd will still be looked after.

I have seen something similar play out in real life and seen how many years these people wasted waiting for the inevitable

Yeah I wasted years waiting for my xh to 'get better '. He's not officially ill but he's vile. I should have moved my life forward rather than wait for something that was never going to happen.

Sounds like a Coronation Street storyline ...oh wait it is ...

@DarcyJack

I don't think you have to walk away. My aunt became disabled - early onset dementia and no one wanted my uncle to spend the rest of his life alone. Certainly not his adult children. But of course he could never divorce my aunt. He was her best advocate. He visited most days in the care home where she lived for probably 6-8 years. He supported her financially and he could never leave her to the mercies of social services and rightly so. But he had a lady friend, who everyone knew about. She came to family events, we all knew her. When aunt died they married and everyone was very happy for them.

This sounds very sensible, best case scenario for everyone.

However in OP’s case, she sounds more like a dirty little secret, hidden away and used for emotional support, but not an acknowledged part of this man’s life. That is very selfish and he is not showing consideration and care for OP. It does make me wonder if he even cares all that much because it’s pretty shit behaviour.

OP I think you need to talk with him. But don’t be his dirty little secret or emotional crutch when you are getting nothing in return, you will be hurt.

Doesn't sound like a dirty secret to me. There's nothing inappropriate going on. We have no idea if the guy's family is aware that he has kept in touch with OP over the years. Even if he hasn't brought it up, that doesn't mean he's hiding it. He doesn't have to tell his (adult?) children about his entirely decorous chats with OP. If they do ever actually meet and get together then presumably he'd eventually introduce her.

Doesn’t sound like a dirty little secret to me either. Darcyjack’s uncle’s relationship would’ve started somewhere too, despite being fully accepted by the family later on. The only unknown for the OP is whether it is a relationship or a dream. The first step hasn’t been made yet. I think declarations of love would be too much at this point, but it would be acceptable to say you were starting to have feelings.