Court order

[Leanne1191]

Hi,

If my ex has applied for a court order stating he wants to see our children every other weekend from Friday to Sunday can I try and negotiate with him in front of the judge that I want him to have them more than just every other weekend so I can work and also provide for the children?

Secondly, will it just go in his favour because he has brought the court order forward and has requested to see them when he wants? Also he asked for mediation and I got the letter but never heard anything after and he has put on the court paper work that mediation was attended when it wasn't?

Just need advice please.

[quote Pinetreesfall]@Leanne1191 good idea. I didn't want to. I never wanted to be dragged through the court system either.
You'd be surprised though - my ex tried to kill me in front of our son and he's still allowed to see him once a month - because he's never been violent towards our son. Figure that![/quote]
That's outrageous! Already mentioned in my other replies on this thread, but my SW has asked me to agree to not let exP have contact with our DS unless or until he wants to take it to court, but I am assuming as they say they usually try to let father see child, that he would get rights.

Write on one bit of paper what you want

Gather together every bit of evidence as to what ex wants.

Write down every point of agreement. I think you'll find you are not actually that far apart.

For every point of disagreement write a short sentence why your suggestion is beneficial to the kids wellbeing. (Not your wellbeing but the kids).

Talk to the mediator and point out all the points of agreement. Use these as a starting point when you go to court.

No he won't get in trouble. The court cannot make him see his children, he won't be fined or anything else, there is only one possible legal consequence. If he misses contact a lot you could potentially go back to court to try and reduce his contact.

Given you don't want that the financial consequences of him not turning up is that you could apply to get more child support from him. But if he doesn't work in a job where there are tax records available of his pay, if he's self employed or cash in hand work and you can't get proof of that then there are zero consequences financially or legally.

NRP can and do walk away from their DC. Often the only consequences are ones they don't care about, like the harm it causes to DC and loss of having a relationship with them.

my SW has asked me to agree to not let exP have contact with our DS

@Redruby2020

Get that in writing. From bitter experience It means bugger all otherwise. just SS passing the buck for safeguarding back onto you, it's a common trick.

But why is this acceptable, okay we know that it happens, but why must the better or more responsible parent has to bend and fold to live their life, even to work, and the other non resident parent gets full freedom?!

You can't force an unwilling parent to look after their kid. You'd risk them doing something dangerous so a judge says that they can't have the child ever.
The other parent ends up sucking it up because there is no alternative unless paternal grandparents get involved and they could also change their mind at a later date.

I'm a bit confused over the timeline OP? You say he cancelled mediation...in which case I am not sure how he will have managed to get "proof" of attempted mediation in order to apply for court. But then you say last week you stopped him seeing the children and he applied to court? I think?

Usually there is a delay between mediation (and it being refused and proof provided) before court will begin, and then even once applied for there is usually a wait. You say you aren't aware of CAFCAS but they will contact you to discuss and you will have court forms to fill out before court can start saying anything to you.. who is telling you this information about what court are saying? If it's coming from your ex he is bullshitting, call his bluff. From what I understand when I went through this, something doesn't stack up.

Also, unfortunately you can have no say in what he does with the children or who he introduces them to when he has them regardless of court or not, unless there is a specified named person court refuse access to, for a safeguarding reason. The woman he cheated with doesn't count, even though it must be difficult for you.

@Leanne1191

Let's flip this around;if a woman posted on here that her ex was telling her who she could and couldn't introduce to her children and when and was also demanding to meet a man before she could introduce them to her children we'd all be telling her to tell the ex to go #$¥# himself and that the ex is being controlling.

You sound angry and bitter.You want the people on this thread to agree with you.

I get your ex is a cheating lying sack of shit;you're well rid of him and quite frankly let the other woman have your sloppy seconds;he's someone else's problem now.

You need to let go of the anger and make this about the kids and not you and him.

From now on I'd only communicate via email unless it's an emergency.Do not deviate from the topic of your kids anything else is irrelevant unless they are in danger.He can drop them off at the end of the driveway/path and collect them from there;you don't actually have to talk to him.

Stop getting mixed up in your exes crap;you're only being dragged down by him because your engaging with him;stop engaging with him and he can't give you a load of crap.If he says he's not bringing them back unless you talk to him face to face tell him you'll be calling the police.

@BlueLionel

I'm a bit confused over the timeline OP? You say he cancelled mediation...in which case I am not sure how he will have managed to get "proof" of attempted mediation in order to apply for court. But then you say last week you stopped him seeing the children and he applied to court? I think?

Usually there is a delay between mediation (and it being refused and proof provided) before court will begin, and then even once applied for there is usually a wait. You say you aren't aware of CAFCAS but they will contact you to discuss and you will have court forms to fill out before court can start saying anything to you.. who is telling you this information about what court are saying? If it's coming from your ex he is bullshitting, call his bluff. From what I understand when I went through this, something doesn't stack up.

Also, unfortunately you can have no say in what he does with the children or who he introduces them to when he has them regardless of court or not, unless there is a specified named person court refuse access to, for a safeguarding reason. The woman he cheated with doesn't count, even though it must be difficult for you.

So he applied for a mediation in December think it was the 18th I got the letter on the 26th as I wasn't at home and was back then. I said to him I will go ahead with the mediation and then I never heard anything back about it. I then get this letter today about him applying for a court order with contact with the children but on the court letter it says he has already attended a mediation which we haven't? But I then got from his family member that he then rang the mediation people and said I was harassing him and calling the police on him and they said it will need to go to court then but I don't get how that can happen when I didn't attend mediation and said I would go? And if I was 'harassing him' why did he want to speak to me face to face last week?

[quote thenewduchessofhastings]@Leanne1191

Let's flip this around;if a woman posted on here that her ex was telling her who she could and couldn't introduce to her children and when and was also demanding to meet a man before she could introduce them to her children we'd all be telling her to tell the ex to go #$¥# himself and that the ex is being controlling.

You sound angry and bitter.You want the people on this thread to agree with you.

I get your ex is a cheating lying sack of shit;you're well rid of him and quite frankly let the other woman have your sloppy seconds;he's someone else's problem now.

You need to let go of the anger and make this about the kids and not you and him.

From now on I'd only communicate via email unless it's an emergency.Do not deviate from the topic of your kids anything else is irrelevant unless they are in danger.He can drop them off at the end of the driveway/path and collect them from there;you don't actually have to talk to him.

Stop getting mixed up in your exes crap;you're only being dragged down by him because your engaging with him;stop engaging with him and he can't give you a load of crap.If he says he's not bringing them back unless you talk to him face to face tell him you'll be calling the police.[/quote]
I'm still a little bitter yes.

I think I will need to put things into action with regards to third party and not seeing him for a while. I think I'm going to have to block his number and get a cheap phone when this is all done and get him to text that number instead.

I am trying to cut ties with him but it's hard because I'll have a good week and then he does something like this? Last time I was told he changed his surname by deed poll has been working and has had money and then to be told that he was seeing her and they've been together this whole time after months and months of him telling me he wasn't and that I am paranoid and mad!!

I just had enough of it all! I'm mentally and emotionally drained for all this bullshit but with my ex if something doesn't go his way or feels like he's not I control anymore he does these kind of things hence he ended up saying if you don't talk to me face to face then I won't bring the kids back so I panicked and spoke to him yet this man has been reporting me to the police for complaints and harassment..... it's all games and attention and he just likes to cause shit for me.

OP you're thinking about what is morally right and conflating what you feel the law should be with that view. He brought DC into this world, he should step up, hell he should want to be a big active supportive part of their life. You shouldn't have children if you're not prepared to do that.

At its most basic all the law says in regards to contact and financial support from the NRP, is that if it can be proven you earn money you must pay child support. Which is often a very token amount. That's it. Contact cannot be forced or mandated.

I wouldn't want to rely on someone who has been abusive to you to have care while I was working. It would be very easy for him to mess that job up for you by not turning up. And I wouldn't want a parent who has proved they can be abusive to have DC more than they want. I'd be too worried he'd take it out on them.

That makes a bit more sense. When you got the mediation letter, I think you should have replied directly to them but that's irrelevant now.
Court should give you a date soon. In the meantime you should get a copy of what he has filed (I think-we were the ones who filed in our case) but we had to fill out a form outlining the issue and what we wanted, kids mum then responded. She had previously refused mediation. Once that happened, we had a phone consultation with CAFCAS who prepared a report and then a court date. Before court we were offered a final mediation, which we then refused as in the meantime, the mother had started refusing access at all. When the court case came up, they did not look favourably on this at all, so tread carefully with refusing him access in the meantime. My advice would be, only communicate with him about his direct access to the kids now, ignore anything he or family try to tell you about court and speak only to the professionals you need to. You can't let this become a personal battle, no matter how much of a dick head he can be. If he tries to get a rise out of you, wait 24 hours before you reply so you can remove your emotion and really think about it, just so you can't say something in the hear of the moment you will regret. Good luck!

*heat of the moment

@BlueLionel

That makes a bit more sense. When you got the mediation letter, I think you should have replied directly to them but that's irrelevant now. Court should give you a date soon. In the meantime you should get a copy of what he has filed (I think-we were the ones who filed in our case) but we had to fill out a form outlining the issue and what we wanted, kids mum then responded. She had previously refused mediation. Once that happened, we had a phone consultation with CAFCAS who prepared a report and then a court date. Before court we were offered a final mediation, which we then refused as in the meantime, the mother had started refusing access at all. When the court case came up, they did not look favourably on this at all, so tread carefully with refusing him access in the meantime. My advice would be, only communicate with him about his direct access to the kids now, ignore anything he or family try to tell you about court and speak only to the professionals you need to. You can't let this become a personal battle, no matter how much of a dick head he can be. If he tries to get a rise out of you, wait 24 hours before you reply so you can remove your emotion and really think about it, just so you can't say something in the hear of the moment you will regret. Good luck!

So shall I still let him see the kids in the meantime. Shall I message him and say you can see the kids ?

I don't know what to do lol.

Yes. IMO you should be agreeing reasonable arrangements for him to see the DC.

Keep it formal, keep communication by text or email, so you have a record of it, and try your best to keep it purely about when he’s picking up and dropping off the kids.

In the meantime, have you applied to the CMS yet? If he’s genuinely got the money to be taking a holiday in the Bahamas then they should be able to make sure he’s paying maintenance.

When was he due to have children this weekend or next?

Seperate the cms and contact.

Reality is men tvat abuse and control their partners will use the kids.

Do you have evidence he told you he wouldn't return the children. On that basis i would ask for a residancy order.

I would simply agree to the eow.. He doesn't want them more so all it will mean is you have to make the children available at those times not that he will have them.

Generally you need to find a job that is daytime not evenings. - difficult at the minute whilst kids are out of school but that won't be much longer.

You have to dismiss any idea if co parenting- co parenting is when 2 parents work together. So you have to let them have their luife at his and their life at yours and unless harmful to your children you don't get involved. You can't vet his girlfriends. You can decide what he does but equally he can't do that to you.

I also would ignore any questions that don't relate to the children - never repky immediately- give yourself chance to think of a civil response. You also need to minimise any contact you make ..

All of this will help.

Harrassing him? Are all your messages to him about the children? Its not harassment if your asking him to have his own children

There is an app called talking parents that you cannot delete or otherwise alter messages its court approved if he is claiming harassment etc I suggest you use that in future and change your number so that is the only way he can communicate

Get your mental health sorted dont reach out to him for support he is an ex and a nasty one at that

@PaterPower

Yes. IMO you should be agreeing reasonable arrangements for him to see the DC.

Keep it formal, keep communication by text or email, so you have a record of it, and try your best to keep it purely about when he’s picking up and dropping off the kids.

In the meantime, have you applied to the CMS yet? If he’s genuinely got the money to be taking a holiday in the Bahamas then they should be able to make sure he’s paying maintenance.

I've contacted them but he's lied because he's self employed

@Starlightstarbright1

When was he due to have children this weekend or next?

Seperate the cms and contact.

Reality is men tvat abuse and control their partners will use the kids.

Do you have evidence he told you he wouldn't return the children. On that basis i would ask for a residancy order.

I would simply agree to the eow.. He doesn't want them more so all it will mean is you have to make the children available at those times not that he will have them.

Generally you need to find a job that is daytime not evenings. - difficult at the minute whilst kids are out of school but that won't be much longer.

You have to dismiss any idea if co parenting- co parenting is when 2 parents work together. So you have to let them have their luife at his and their life at yours and unless harmful to your children you don't get involved. You can't vet his girlfriends. You can decide what he does but equally he can't do that to you.

I also would ignore any questions that don't relate to the children - never repky immediately- give yourself chance to think of a civil response. You also need to minimise any contact you make ..

All of this will help.

He's having them this weekend coming.

In the past the messaging was me hurt and ringing him crying asking why he's done this to me and stuff and maybe a few harsh words.

@Starlightstarbright1

When was he due to have children this weekend or next?

Seperate the cms and contact.

Reality is men tvat abuse and control their partners will use the kids.

Do you have evidence he told you he wouldn't return the children. On that basis i would ask for a residancy order.

I would simply agree to the eow.. He doesn't want them more so all it will mean is you have to make the children available at those times not that he will have them.

Generally you need to find a job that is daytime not evenings. - difficult at the minute whilst kids are out of school but that won't be much longer.

You have to dismiss any idea if co parenting- co parenting is when 2 parents work together. So you have to let them have their luife at his and their life at yours and unless harmful to your children you don't get involved. You can't vet his girlfriends. You can decide what he does but equally he can't do that to you.

I also would ignore any questions that don't relate to the children - never repky immediately- give yourself chance to think of a civil response. You also need to minimise any contact you make ..

All of this will help.

Yes I have evidence of him saying he won't bring them back until I spoke to him I have that in text

@Theunamedcat

Harrassing him? Are all your messages to him about the children? Its not harassment if your asking him to have his own children

There is an app called talking parents that you cannot delete or otherwise alter messages its court approved if he is claiming harassment etc I suggest you use that in future and change your number so that is the only way he can communicate

Get your mental health sorted dont reach out to him for support he is an ex and a nasty one at that

Before it was calling him and messaging him why he had done this to our family and stuff yeah but I've stopped that now I was hurt and emotional because of everything that had happened.

@Leanne1191 personally, yes let him see the kids. In the eyes of the court you have no valid reason not to let him see the kids. Contact him, make it clear you will only communicate about the kids and ask simply which weekend he wants them. Once the court order is in place it will be so much easier for you all, as everyone has to stick to it, you know where you stand, and he no longer has control over you. You are not going to be able to convince him to have the extra days you want him to in the long run if you won't even let him have weekends now. Think of the bigger picture.

Yes he's a dick, but he can only be a dick if you allow him the headspace.

During our court case things were horrendous, we were refused any contact at all by the mother and the impact on the kids was awful. There was also a third party safeguarding issue involved which further complicated matters and caused resentment. Court granted every other weekend without question, plus holidays built up over time due to the no contact. Now, 6 months on everyone gets on fantastically because we all know exactly what is expected.

@Hazelnutlatteplease Get that in writing. From bitter experience It means bugger all otherwise. just SS passing the buck for safeguarding back onto you, it's a common trick.

Yes it's been given on paper as a written agreement. Yes I did think that, I am too outspoken at times and give too much away, they are not your friend, and I am not stupid that although they say it is not legally binding it could be used in court etc. They say we can not make that decision or authority etc, but then I have known of other cases, okay much worse than mine, whereby if something like that was broken they would be on your back questioning your intentions and why you would place yourself or child at risk, if you see what I mean.

[quote thenewduchessofhastings]@Leanne1191

Let's flip this around;if a woman posted on here that her ex was telling her who she could and couldn't introduce to her children and when and was also demanding to meet a man before she could introduce them to her children we'd all be telling her to tell the ex to go #$¥# himself and that the ex is being controlling.

You sound angry and bitter.You want the people on this thread to agree with you.

I get your ex is a cheating lying sack of shit;you're well rid of him and quite frankly let the other woman have your sloppy seconds;he's someone else's problem now.

You need to let go of the anger and make this about the kids and not you and him.

From now on I'd only communicate via email unless it's an emergency.Do not deviate from the topic of your kids anything else is irrelevant unless they are in danger.He can drop them off at the end of the driveway/path and collect them from there;you don't actually have to talk to him.

Stop getting mixed up in your exes crap;you're only being dragged down by him because your engaging with him;stop engaging with him and he can't give you a load of crap.If he says he's not bringing them back unless you talk to him face to face tell him you'll be calling the police.[/quote]
If the father is on the birth certificate there is nothing the police can do, I have already been told this by those who deal with these questions/concerns all of the time. If there was something in place for example a court order, or something else, then that is another story.