Court order

[Leanne1191]

Hi,

If my ex has applied for a court order stating he wants to see our children every other weekend from Friday to Sunday can I try and negotiate with him in front of the judge that I want him to have them more than just every other weekend so I can work and also provide for the children?

Secondly, will it just go in his favour because he has brought the court order forward and has requested to see them when he wants? Also he asked for mediation and I got the letter but never heard anything after and he has put on the court paper work that mediation was attended when it wasn't?

Just need advice please.

@Redruby2020

Sounds a bit like my exP, though it hasn't reached court yet, if it will at all. As exP is now through the advice of SS, who have instructed me not to allow contact, and to let him take it to court. But a few of the behaviours are like that of an abuser, there is quite a bit of manipulation going on, and now using the kids to get to you/get the result he wants!

Exactly! Finally! That's what I mean you don't use the kids to get me to talk to you face to face especially when he claims I have been harassing him! It's all about manipulation and control wouldnt this been spoken about in court?

@Leanne1191 doesn't matter. I've never met my ex's gf but the court order says my son goes once a month to his dad and she is there because they live together.
If it is a safeguarding concern you MUST raise this. Although on the other hand if you have safe guarding concerns you can't ask him to take the children more if she's there.
I would get legal advice, especially if CAFCASS get involved

OP the court will not order anything around who he can see when he has DC, unless their was a very big safeguarding issue. They also can't force him to have more contact. The court order means you have to make DC available for him at the stated times and dates, but even the EOW he wants, if he doesn't turn up then nobody official will try to force him to see them.

[quote Redruby2020]@Leanne1191 Honestly I've been through so much shit with him the last 7 months you would not believe! I've had previous threads that explains it all. He has been vile, abusive and manipulative too. But .... he should see the kids more than that I think it's right and I don't get why a court would rule that out?

Do you really want to have to endure more of his crap so that he can have the children more. I think if he has been abusive in the past and is being now, you shouldn't have to have contact with him because of your children if that makes sense. [/quote]
I get why everyone is saying why would I want him to see them more because of how he is, but it's because of the kids too he should see them more than that it's so wrong. He's abusive to me yeah but I just don't get how men get away with being parents every other weekend ?

[quote Pinetreesfall]@Leanne1191 doesn't matter. I've never met my ex's gf but the court order says my son goes once a month to his dad and she is there because they live together.
If it is a safeguarding concern you MUST raise this. Although on the other hand if you have safe guarding concerns you can't ask him to take the children more if she's there.
I would get legal advice, especially if CAFCASS get involved [/quote]
What's CAFCASS? Pardon my ignorance.

@HereIAmOnceAgain

OP the court will not order anything around who he can see when he has DC, unless their was a very big safeguarding issue. They also can't force him to have more contact. The court order means you have to make DC available for him at the stated times and dates, but even the EOW he wants, if he doesn't turn up then nobody official will try to force him to see them.

But I can then go back to the courts and say he hasn't come this weekend because that's the arrangement he wanted and got and then doesn't comply. He can get into trouble for that serious trouble.

@Leanne1191
Children and Family Court Advisory and Support Service

[quote Pinetreesfall]@Leanne1191
Children and Family Court Advisory and Support Service

[/quote]
I am seeking legal advice Monday

@Crikeycroc

The court won’t force him to step up and be a good involved dad, no. It is an interesting point though. If a mum went to court and said she was only willing to have the children EOW, social services would probably be contacted

Yes, we still seem to be in a society where it is accepted that fathers walk away, or don't do as they should. Not many frowned that my exP was not paying regular maintenance, so what if I just threw my hands up and said 'hey you know what I haven't got much money this month, the kid will just have to get it from elsewhere' I bet there would be some action then?! It's because they know one parent is taking responsibility and doing the right things they are content and can't do much about the other!

@Leanne1191 good idea. I didn't want to. I never wanted to be dragged through the court system either.
You'd be surprised though - my ex tried to kill me in front of our son and he's still allowed to see him once a month - because he's never been violent towards our son. Figure that!

@Hazelnutlatteplease

Tread very very carefully.

You must now not be messaging about anything that isn't directly related to the wellbeing of the children. Dont get drunk for a while, then you are at less risk of drunk calling. Get in contact with your GP and ask for counselling. do what you need to move on, because you will need to find a way of dealing with him for some time without it impacting on your mental health. Get in contact with mediation quick and see if that bird has definitely flown.Do not mention the OW, your ex's relationships now aren't really your business.

Yy to organising your life so you are not dependent on your ex to work.

But why is this acceptable, okay we know that it happens, but why must the better or more responsible parent has to bend and fold to live their life, even to work, and the other non resident parent gets full freedom?!

But then I know why he won't have them anymore that that it's because he wants to be free and live his life with his missus.

You need to remember this, and focus on getting youself in a better place for your kids - without him. The courts will let him walk away contact free if that is what he wants. The will not enforce any contact if he doesnt want it.

You don't want to hear this yet but he is not going to step up. You need to stop expecting him to. He will just use any attempt to make him do anything he doesn't fancy doing against you.

If you get your order to say 2 nights in the week, you then take a job which involves you working those 2 nights in the week - what are you going to do when he doesn't turn up at school or wherever to collect them? You will not be able to rely on him.

You need to eradicate him from your life. Is there someone else you can do handover for you? You really need not to see him or speak to him at all. Get all communication through email partly so it is writing and partly so he cannot get to you as easily. Get another phone so you only have the phone on when the kids are with him and do not put his number in your new phone .

You have to disconnect. He has moved on - whether you like it or not he has and you cannot stop him. He will involve the other woman in the kids life as is his right sadly. Get yourself straight and concentrate on your kids. Good Luck!

[quote Pinetreesfall]@Leanne1191 good idea. I didn't want to. I never wanted to be dragged through the court system either.
You'd be surprised though - my ex tried to kill me in front of our son and he's still allowed to see him once a month - because he's never been violent towards our son. Figure that![/quote]
I didn't want to but he frightened me and I couldn't trust him having them when he said he wouldn't bring them back until I see him.
Yeah that's not right! That's actually so wrong?? See what I mean it's awful! I just don't get how men get away with so much..... they make all these kids and then walk away don't pay and then demand court orders. He has two older sons too!

That's fine then because he wants to play games so I'll just say once a month ? He's all about control and having it his way he don't care about the kids he's doing this to get to me.

Doesn't matter why he's doing what hes doing. Cant change him only you. Dont tit for tat, the kids suffer and nobody wins.

Right now you need to ensure you have cast iron evidence that you believed his brother who he lived with had covid. You need evidence you are attending counselling and you need to ensure the kids are seeing their dad every other week bar a major disaster.

But I don't know her and she's a stranger?
Shes not a stranger to your ex. Your ex is considered by a court (rightly or wrongly) to be a capable parent (unless proved otherwise). As a capable parent he is considered able to decide who does and doesn't meet his children. whilst you can ask, you have no right to demand. If it can be presented that the relationship is likely to be conflictual (shes the ow) or damaging to your mental health, you meeting her is unlikely to have any benefit to the kids.

@marshmallowfluffy

Btw he can go to court and get an order for every other weekend. If he doesn't pick them up then there's no repercussions. After a while you can take him back to court and get the order amended but he could start the cycle again of asking for EOW.

In your shoes I'd agree to EOW and not use a solicitor (just in case you were) Make sure the CAO is clear about how holidays, birthdays and Xmas will work so there's no manipulation about what happens if a birthday falls on his Saturday for example.

He's basically allowed to introduce whoever he wants to the kids and can even leave them with others during his time and there's nothing you can do.

What do you mean about birthdays etc?

But I can then go back to the courts and say he hasn't come this weekend because that's the arrangement he wanted and got and then doesn't comply. He can get into trouble for that serious trouble.

No he won't get in trouble. His choices would be to abandon all contact, concoct some excuse (you paid for the legal action so he won't care stretching things out) or apologize to the judge and say he'll do better and repeat

@LittleOwl153

But then I know why he won't have them anymore that that it's because he wants to be free and live his life with his missus.

You need to remember this, and focus on getting youself in a better place for your kids - without him. The courts will let him walk away contact free if that is what he wants. The will not enforce any contact if he doesnt want it.

You don't want to hear this yet but he is not going to step up. You need to stop expecting him to. He will just use any attempt to make him do anything he doesn't fancy doing against you.

If you get your order to say 2 nights in the week, you then take a job which involves you working those 2 nights in the week - what are you going to do when he doesn't turn up at school or wherever to collect them? You will not be able to rely on him.

You need to eradicate him from your life. Is there someone else you can do handover for you? You really need not to see him or speak to him at all. Get all communication through email partly so it is writing and partly so he cannot get to you as easily. Get another phone so you only have the phone on when the kids are with him and do not put his number in your new phone .

You have to disconnect. He has moved on - whether you like it or not he has and you cannot stop him. He will involve the other woman in the kids life as is his right sadly. Get yourself straight and concentrate on your kids. Good Luck!

Yes your right.

Maybe the phone idea is better. Get a cheap phone and use that number for him. Turn it off when he hasn't got the kids and on when he has.

I am moving on, I literally hate him and the woman is welcome to him, what gets to me is that I've had a good week and I end up with this on my doorstep when he was round last Wednesday acting all nice to my face and wanting to talk knowing this was coming. He did this before with the police called them to my door but before come round and was all nice knowing they was going to turn up. He's so controlling and manipulative it's unreal.

@Hazelnutlatteplease

That's fine then because he wants to play games so I'll just say once a month ? He's all about control and having it his way he don't care about the kids he's doing this to get to me.

Doesn't matter why he's doing what hes doing. Cant change him only you. Dont tit for tat, the kids suffer and nobody wins.

Right now you need to ensure you have cast iron evidence that you believed his brother who he lived with had covid. You need evidence you are attending counselling and you need to ensure the kids are seeing their dad every other week bar a major disaster.

But I don't know her and she's a stranger?
Shes not a stranger to your ex. Your ex is considered by a court (rightly or wrongly) to be a capable parent (unless proved otherwise). As a capable parent he is considered able to decide who does and doesn't meet his children. whilst you can ask, you have no right to demand. If it can be presented that the relationship is likely to be conflictual (shes the ow) or damaging to your mental health, you meeting her is unlikely to have any benefit to the kids.

I do have evidence he had covid he's also said it in a text message but he was actually with her I didn't know this because of the lies so I said no you need to self isolate because your brother has covid! I have evidence of my mental health because I've been involved with a therapist for the whole time.

@Leanne1191 He's abusive to me not the kids
But what has he been like in front of them towards you, as that is still a form of abuse if they have been exposed to stuff. Also them hearing him say he would not return them etc, if they did hear for example, is not good, I can't speak for the future, but I know up until now my exP would never of said that, as he wouldn't want the stress, and my poor little DS would be crying his eyes out for me, as he has done in the past. He told his father out right he would cry if he spent the night there, this is from a not even 3 yr old at the time. But note he is the same at my parents so it's not just because of exP and things about him.

But I don't know her and she's a stranger? Surely that's not right........

He holds all the cards. He could use a childminder or babysitter during his time and if he vetted them then that would be considered fine.
On the other hand when it comes to schools, as the parent who has the kids Monday-Friday, your choice would hold more weight if he decides to be awkward and insist on a school near his house.

@Leanne1191 Exactly! Finally! That's what I mean you don't use the kids to get me to talk to you face to face especially when he claims I have been harassing him! It's all about manipulation and control wouldnt this been spoken about in court?

Hi, i doubt it, from what I hear and am told they just look at what has brought you there and any mitigating factors why contact has been stopped or reduced etc.

But why is this acceptable, okay we know that it happens, but why must the better or more responsible parent has to bend and fold to live their life, even to work, and the other non resident parent gets full freedom?!

I'm not commenting on the rights or wrongs, exH got away with far worse and was still considered a fabulous and equal parent as far as the courts were concerned. Family court is not the place for idealism. The only least harmful way through family court is an approach that is deeply pragmatic and painfully realistic about what actually can be achieved.

@marshmallowfluffy

But I don't know her and she's a stranger? Surely that's not right........

He holds all the cards. He could use a childminder or babysitter during his time and if he vetted them then that would be considered fine.
On the other hand when it comes to schools, as the parent who has the kids Monday-Friday, your choice would hold more weight if he decides to be awkward and insist on a school near his house.

Honestly........

I just feel like giving up. Just saying do you know what Alex...... have everything your way.

Why is it good people get shitted on and have to suffer for months even years after and then you get the shittiest person who always smells of roses and wins and has everything they want and how they want it.? It's just not fair it's really not.

[quote Redruby2020]@Leanne1191 Exactly! Finally! That's what I mean you don't use the kids to get me to talk to you face to face especially when he claims I have been harassing him! It's all about manipulation and control wouldnt this been spoken about in court?

Hi, i doubt it, from what I hear and am told they just look at what has brought you there and any mitigating factors why contact has been stopped or reduced etc.[/quote]
I'm so drained mentally and emotionally.

I just want all this to end.
One thing after another with this prick

@Leanne1191 I get why everyone is saying why would I want him to see them more because of how he is, but it's because of the kids too he should see them more than that it's so wrong. He's abusive to me yeah but I just don't get how men get away with being parents every other weekend ?

It happens! As we know! And then some!
Some worse off too, not that it's a competition of course. And there are times I look at my DS and feel so sad, it's so heartbreaking and frustrating that they weren't what they should of been or still aren't and some who will never be.
My thing was he was seeing our DS regularly like few times in the week if not at work, and weekends, never had overnight as he doesn't have the right accommodation, and I was told by Children’s services they actually advise it's better that the child sleeps in one home, I think maybe also when very young.
Plus our DS wouldn't cope with it, we had already lived away from his dad for a year.